Tcali Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Anyone know how far he can throw the ball in the air? he doesnt have a strong arm---but he is accurate .his arm is stronger than fitzys(i know not saying much). intriguing idea at rd 3-6 ---i think he could be a good nfl QB.
Gordio Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 If you are going to draft a project QB, get someone with elite skills. Brock Osweiler is 6'8" with skills good enough to get a basketball scholarship to Gonzaga. In my dream world, the Bills go: 1) Floyd 2) Adams OSU 3) Baquette of Arkansas 4) Osweiler. Probably no chance of this ever happening, but it's fun to dream. Osweiler sucks.
Mr. WEO Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 I've read the entire back and forth and I agree with the others. You mention only 1 starting qb in the AFC east is a first rd pick. Yes, and 3 of the 4 should be backups. Brady being 1 of a few exceptions. The majority of the really good qbs in the league are 1st rd picks. It's a fact. Sure there are exceptions, as there are to every facet of life, but the chances are slim that a qb drafted after rd 1 win become a star. That's what you want playing the qb position for you, and it's unlikely you'll find it outside rd 1. You say Moore has actual potential while comparing him to thigpen, while thigpen has actually had success in the nfl. If Moore has potential than thigpen most definitely does as well. We'll continue this topic in 7 years. Or maybe 2, when Moore is out of the league. We weren't debating whether those drafted after round 1 could be "stars", but "starting NFL QBs", verbatum. Sure, every team is waiting around for a "star QB", yet they still play the games until one falls to them and they play those games with the best QB on their roster. Potential means, by definition, we don't know how good he can get, but he seems promising. We've seen the best of Thigpen (or the Chiefs fans did, anyway). Even re-united with Chan (who refused to sub him in for a damaged Fitz --even during a 7 game slide), the old "magic" between the 2 of them is gone. So yes, Moore has "actual potential", whereas Thigpen hit the ceiling well before he hit Buffalo.
Ozymandius Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 We need to take a chance on him in Round 3 or later. Yeah, he could suck because of his physical tools. So what? Every draft pick is a risk, especially once you get past the first round. Nobody in the draft thinks the game better.
Astrobot Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Round 3? I know QBs are valued but Moore isn't close to a third round pick, round 5 or 6 more likely Lots of QB's have passed Moore up, but I like the guy. We have videos up on almost all of them. http://www.drafttek.com/2012-NFL-Draft-Prospect-Rankings/Top-QBs.asp Moore is #295 on the Big Board, and that's usually RD7. Third round would be Foles, Osweiler, Lindley. Cousins is late 2nd.
gumby Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 We weren't debating whether those drafted after round 1 could be "stars", but "starting NFL QBs", verbatum. Sure, every team is waiting around for a "star QB", yet they still play the games until one falls to them and they play those games with the best QB on their roster. Potential means, by definition, we don't know how good he can get, but he seems promising. We've seen the best of Thigpen (or the Chiefs fans did, anyway). Even re-united with Chan (who refused to sub him in for a damaged Fitz --even during a 7 game slide), the old "magic" between the 2 of them is gone. So yes, Moore has "actual potential", whereas Thigpen hit the ceiling well before he hit Buffalo. You seem to be arguing 2 different points. On one hand you say he would be a good pick as a back-up. I don't see the point in wasting a mid to late round pick on someone who by definition you don't want to have to play. Then you're arguing for a starting NFL QB. I'm not quantifying it by having them be a star, just a franchise QB. Even with that criteria the numbers are low that mid to late round QBs ever develop into a franchise QB in the NFL.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 He NEVER concedes so much as a SINGLE POINT. That's why I don't bother with him anymore. In his own mind, he's completely infallible. He's right, we're wrong. Always.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 No thanks. Great college QB but in the NFL he looks to be not as good as Colt McCoy and Colt McCoy ain't any good.
mob16151 Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Moore reminds me of a less athletic Pat White. FWIW
thebandit27 Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 We need to take a chance on him in Round 3 or later. Yeah, he could suck because of his physical tools. So what? Every draft pick is a risk, especially once you get past the first round. Nobody in the draft thinks the game better. I'd say round 7 and not before, but that's JMO You seem to be arguing 2 different points. On one hand you say he would be a good pick as a back-up. I don't see the point in wasting a mid to late round pick on someone who by definition you don't want to have to play. Then you're arguing for a starting NFL QB. I'm not quantifying it by having them be a star, just a franchise QB. Even with that criteria the numbers are low that mid to late round QBs ever develop into a franchise QB in the NFL. Agreed on all counts. He NEVER concedes so much as a SINGLE POINT. That's why I don't bother with him anymore. In his own mind, he's completely infallible. He's right, we're wrong. Always. I'm starting to agree with this... No thanks. Great college QB but in the NFL he looks to be not as good as Colt McCoy and Colt McCoy ain't any good. I could see that... Moore reminds me of a less athletic Pat White. FWIW Ugh, that can't bode well for his NFL future.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Every year we go through this. There's 3 or 4 manlet 6 foot QBs that one poster or another says is the "next Brees". No, they're not. They are arena league QBs. Root for them when they're playing for the Vegas Gamblers or whatever. Well, they might be the next Brees. Unfortunately for them, they're unlikely to get the chance to prove it. NFL GMs see lack of height as a handicap that absolutely can't be fixed, so these QB do tend to go undrafted and catch on (if they catch on) as UDFA See Daniel, Chase. We already have two relatively short QB (Fitzpatrick is listed as 6'2" - maybe if he stretches. Thigpen is listed as 6' 1"). Something tells me Chix and Nailey would like any prospect they bring in to look more like Levi Brown (6'4") or taller. Here's a vids. He looks like he has zip on the ball. Throws it everywhere. Hawaii's DBs are playing way off the receivers in that game. Is that typical for that conference? He's certainly worth a shot at 5 (Wang, anyone?) or even 4--we have an extra. Or we could draft a few more LBs there who likely won't be on the roster a year later. The thing about LB or CB who don't make the starting lineup is, they're often useful on special teams while they get their chance to learn the game at the NFL level. Can Moore play gunner?
section122 Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Moore reminds me of a less athletic Pat White. FWIW What in his game reminds you of White? White was a horrible passer and a runner first second and third. I see no comparison of the 2 at all. The McCoy comparison maybe but def not Pat White. As for Moore the prospect he does have a chance to be good/great in this league. I understand the knock on his height but not in his game. He is lethally accurate to the tune of 74%. He has a long history of production and through watching his games I keep seeing an NFL player. Then again I thought McCoy would be a star (he still may be good but has no weapons) and to this point I have been wrong about him. For the other argument that is going on... Late round qbs are brought in to be developed. You see something you like in a qb but some things you don't like. Bring them in try to work on them. If it's a success you get Matt Hasselback, Matt Cassell, Brad Johnson, Trent Green, Rich Gannon, and maybe just maybe a Tom Brady. If it's not it is another late round pick that didn't make the roster. I don't understand why it is acceptable to take other positions have it not work and cut the player, but if it is a qb it is a waste of a pick. Late round qbs SHOULD be taken with teams that have an entrenched starter that will give the pick time to develop. I remember the Ron Wolf (former packer gm) saying he would take one every year and hope to find a good one or at least one he could use as a trade able asset.
JohnC Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 No thanks. Great college QB but in the NFL he looks to be not as good as Colt McCoy and Colt McCoy ain't any good. Kellen Moore is a terrific CFL prospect. If JaMarcus Russell with his big-gun arm had his football smarts, work ethic and leadership skills he would be an all-pro player.
Mr. WEO Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) You seem to be arguing 2 different points. On one hand you say he would be a good pick as a back-up. I don't see the point in wasting a mid to late round pick on someone who by definition you don't want to have to play. Then you're arguing for a starting NFL QB. I'm not quantifying it by having them be a star, just a franchise QB. Even with that criteria the numbers are low that mid to late round QBs ever develop into a franchise QB in the NFL. True, I am making 2 points. The first is that Moore would be a good pickup in the 4th round or lower. Obviously he would be a backup initially. He may "develop into a starter"--which was your original statement. I won't get into what a "franchise QB" is or is not. You were talking about starters. Looking at the league the past few seasons, it's obvious that the backup QB spot is crucial--why is that the only position you would never fill in the draft? Simply because the odds of him being a starter are low? That logic would lead at some point to there being zero backup QBs on any roster. My second point was that your statement ("If you're not going to draft a QB in the 1st round than don't bother") was silly. Unless there is a top propsect at your spot in the 1st and you have the need, what is the harm in drafting a QB in another round?? Teams do it all the time. Backups become starters. Fitz is a prime example--although we didn't draft him, another team did as a backup. He stated a bunch of games for them. We brought him in as a backup. Now he's our "franchise QB". So I disagree that you should not draft a QB outside of the first round--simply because he "might not develop into a starting NL QB". That logic would lead at some point to there being zero backup QBs on any roster. He NEVER concedes so much as a SINGLE POINT. That's why I don't bother with him anymore. In his own mind, he's completely infallible. He's right, we're wrong. Always. This obviously isn't true. We all have opinions, SJBF, and that's what we are expressing here. I try to base mine in fact but some are straight up guesses. But I don't back away from points that I believe in. I can be convinced by an opposing argument that is well made--and I have been persuaded by many excellent poster on this board over and over.. When I agree with a post, I say so. If you've been paying attention, you would see I have agreed with your posts on more than one occasion and have said so. So don't be so sensitive. Edited March 29, 2012 by Mr. WEO
please stop the pain Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 Doug Flutie was picked in 11th round. He went on to star in the CFL. Went to NFL pro bowl one year with Buffalo. Great cereal! I want breakfast. Other than that Moore sounds like a nice later-round option to replace Thigpen. Eventually, most backups get a chance to play and sometimes show that they have the ability to get wins regardless of their height. Like Flutie did at Buffalo. Full circle back to breakfast. Seriously Buffalo needs a better backup than Thigpen or God Forbid Brad Smith (imagine that passing attack) Other needs first. 4th round or later if he is there
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 I've made clear that I believe in the qualities Moore has that have made him a winner on the college level; Obviously he's not a first- and probably not a second-day pick, but we've seen too many players that get by on their athleticism fail at the next level. I don't think Moore is a bad gamble at all to be a #2 QB who displays some upside and could thrive with a few years under Fitz and an NFL training regimen. I have never seen anyone question the guy's work ethic, and he is still young. He has all the makeup you'd want in a QB. There are questions and they may be magnified in Buffalo weather, but until the Bills are in the right position to draft a truly special prospect with exceptional size, strength and football IQ, it's foolish for them to not consider any QBs in the later rounds. The good news is that I trust this front office, whichever QB (if any) they go for. I think this seems like a good year given the situation. Meanwhile, ask JP Losman, Browning Nagle, or Jamarcus Russell how much arm strength equates to success. Hell, ask Drew Bledsoe. It is a good tool in the arsenal, but I think the success of QBs like Brady show that you need a pretty good complement of skills that may be more meaningful.
Mr. WEO Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 I've made clear that I believe in the qualities Moore has that have made him a winner on the college level; Obviously he's not a first- and probably not a second-day pick, but we've seen too many players that get by on their athleticism fail at the next level. I don't think Moore is a bad gamble at all to be a #2 QB who displays some upside and could thrive with a few years under Fitz and an NFL training regimen. I have never seen anyone question the guy's work ethic, and he is still young. He has all the makeup you'd want in a QB. There are questions and they may be magnified in Buffalo weather, but until the Bills are in the right position to draft a truly special prospect with exceptional size, strength and football IQ, it's foolish for them to not consider any QBs in the later rounds. The good news is that I trust this front office, whichever QB (if any) they go for. I think this seems like a good year given the situation. Meanwhile, ask JP Losman, Browning Nagle, or Jamarcus Russell how much arm strength equates to success. Hell, ask Drew Bledsoe. It is a good tool in the arsenal, but I think the success of QBs like Brady show that you need a pretty good complement of skills that may be more meaningful. I agree with all of this. Good post.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 I see Moore as the Anti-Tebow. Now for some of you, that's all you need to hear to be sold on the guy, but not so fast. Tebow lacks the mechanics (accuracy) and football IQ (reading defense), but MORE than makes up for it with his heart, and physical ability to run the ball. Defenses have to play the run all the time, which not only opens up some passing, but even when they do play the run he has the ability to run through them and score as we saw many times. Basically, where Tebow lacks to be a prototypical QB, he has other abilities to fall back on to move the ball and score. These other abilities keep the Defense honest, and can also open up passes. Moore on the other hand, has the mechanics and brain, but lacks the physical abilities such as running, a huge arm, or anything else to fall back on. There are plenty of Football Geniuses that can read defenses and find open guys, that never make it in the NFL because the NFL is all about results and getting it done. I believe that NFL Defenses will eat Moore alive. He had the pleasure of playing behind a very good OL against very weak defenses. Once he faces an NFL pass rush, I think he will crumble. I like the comparison to McCoy, except I think he is an even softer McCoy. JMHO.
taglientep Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 I don't what round we should take him in, but I think the dude can flat out play. He can make ALL the throws. He's one inch shorter than the best QB in the NFL (IMHO) Drew Brees. Can 1 inch really make that big of a difference? And he's extremely accurate. I'd love to see us get him in the draft somewhere. I think he may surprise some of you naysayers. the guy has talent. Does anyone remember what round Tom Brady was picked in? Remember how everyone passed him up? yeah you dont know till the guy is under center.
Kelly the Dog Posted March 29, 2012 Posted March 29, 2012 the guy has talent. Does anyone remember what round Tom Brady was picked in? Remember how everyone passed him up? yeah you dont know till the guy is under center. I'm so sick of the Tom Brady argument. Lets take a look at all the NFL QBs who have been drafted in the 4th or 5th round or lower and then determine whether you want to bet on a 6th rounder becoming your franchise QB. It's a 100 to 1 shot at best and is only not 1000 to 1 because there have not been 1000 QBs drafted that low. Brady is an aberration, like Kurt Warner and Johnny Unitas before him, who were also more than 100 to 1 shots. Yes, it happens once every few decades for one out of 32 teams. The chances of it happening again, while within the realm of possibility, is extremely, extremely low.
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