San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 here's a bomb to Titus Young for arm strength purposes youtube.com/watch?v=4c16ankVNds About 58 yards in the air… about the same distance as Doug Flutie's Hail Mary. It's a good heave but it doesn't indicate that he'll be able to gun the ball with a quick release on a deep comeback pattern to the sidelines.
Mr. WEO Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 I think some team will take a Flyer on Moore, but not before the 6th or 7th round. Besides being under 6' tall, he doesn't have a very strong arm, and didn't show great accuracy or the ability to drive the ball on sideline routes or dig routes...not a good formula for an NFL QB. Just my 1 cent. The guy threw 439 passes and completed 326 of them--that's a 74.3% completion rate. Not high enough for you, huh? The most efficient passer in the nation. 142 TDs against 28 ints. I can't find anywhere he is listed as less than 6 feet tall. 6 even at combine. 6 1/8 at pro day. At his pro day: he completed 52/53 passes. Several 50 yard bombs. Showed "good zip", excellent timing. His workout was described as better than any QB out west other than Luck. "Better than expected arm strength". He is regarded as extremely bright and an offensive savant. He's certainly worth a shot at 5 (Wang, anyone?) or even 4--we have an extra. Or we could draft a few more LBs there who likely won't be on the roster a year later.
Wagon Circler Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Moore is a grey prospect...meaning, he has the accuracy and the intangibles on being a great QB in the NFL...BUT, he lacks size...and his body looks to be maxed out and can't get any bigger! Are we sure that he has stopped growing? Trainers can do great things these days. The rack!
DrDawkinstein Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Every year we go through this. There's 3 or 4 manlet 6 foot QBs that one poster or another says is the "next Brees". No, they're not. They are arena league QBs. Root for them when they're playing for the Vegas Gamblers or whatever. This.
Peter Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 That was a fun game. As others have said, I do not know which round he should go, but I do know that he can play. I would have no problem with the Bills picking him up to develop him. here's a bomb to Titus Young for arm strength purposes youtube.com/watch?v=4c16ankVNds
BigdaddyinOrlando Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Would love to be able to get a young QB and have him here for a little bit have him fill in for a game or two and produce well but then trade him during that off sesson while his name is hot and then in turn use that high pick or package tat pick and move up to grab the highly touted QB in that years draft. Ala NE with Cassel, Jags to us for Rob Johnson.
thebandit27 Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 The guy threw 439 passes and completed 326 of them--that's a 74.3% completion rate. Not high enough for you, huh? The most efficient passer in the nation. 142 TDs against 28 ints. I can't find anywhere he is listed as less than 6 feet tall. 6 even at combine. 6 1/8 at pro day. At his pro day: he completed 52/53 passes. Several 50 yard bombs. Showed "good zip", excellent timing. His workout was described as better than any QB out west other than Luck. "Better than expected arm strength". He is regarded as extremely bright and an offensive savant. He's certainly worth a shot at 5 (Wang, anyone?) or even 4--we have an extra. Or we could draft a few more LBs there who likely won't be on the roster a year later. There was no comma in the original post, WEO. Had I said: "Moore didn't show great accuracy, or the ability to drive the ball on sideline routes or dig routes", then you'd have a point, but my comment was that--on sideline throws and dig routes--Moore lacks the ability to drive the ball (and therefore loses accuracy on his passes). As for Moore's height: http://www.rotoworld.com/stats/nfl/7479/kellen-moore Boise State QB Kellen Moore measured just 5-foot-11 3/4 and 191 pounds at Monday's Senior Bowl weigh-in.He's a hair taller than Wisconsin's Russell Wilson, but both quarterbacks' height will be working against them on draft weekend. Moore's arm strength is also considered to be weaker than Wilson's. A prolific college quarterback, Moore projects as a late-round pick or undrafted free agent in the pros. Jan 23 - 3:41 PM I also read that his arm strength looked poor during Senior Bowl practices. It's one thing to show good arm strength in a scripted, controlled environment like a pro day; it's quite another to do it against live competition. http://www.mwcconnection.com/2012/1/23/2728618/2012-senior-bowl-practices-kellen-moore-struggled
sharebear Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 The guy threw 439 passes and completed 326 of them--that's a 74.3% completion rate. Not high enough for you, huh? The most efficient passer in the nation. 142 TDs against 28 ints. I can't find anywhere he is listed as less than 6 feet tall. 6 even at combine. 6 1/8 at pro day. At his pro day: he completed 52/53 passes. Several 50 yard bombs. Showed "good zip", excellent timing. His workout was described as better than any QB out west other than Luck. "Better than expected arm strength". He is regarded as extremely bright and an offensive savant. He's certainly worth a shot at 5 (Wang, anyone?) or even 4--we have an extra. Or we could draft a few more LBs there who likely won't be on the roster a year later. ^This. How can anyone hate on the guy? hes flat out a winner. And he probably has the best accuracy in the draft (yes even better than luck) If we have a chance to pick this kid in the 4-7th we better hop on it
Mr. WEO Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) There was no comma in the original post, WEO. Had I said: "Moore didn't show great accuracy, or the ability to drive the ball on sideline routes or dig routes", then you'd have a point, but my comment was that--on sideline throws and dig routes--Moore lacks the ability to drive the ball (and therefore loses accuracy on his passes).As for Moore's height: http://www.rotoworld.com/stats/nfl/7479/kellen-moore Boise State QB Kellen Moore measured just 5-foot-11 3/4 and 191 pounds at Monday's Senior Bowl weigh-in.He's a hair taller than Wisconsin's Russell Wilson, but both quarterbacks' height will be working against them on draft weekend. Moore's arm strength is also considered to be weaker than Wilson's. A prolific college quarterback, Moore projects as a late-round pick or undrafted free agent in the pros. Jan 23 - 3:41 PM I also read that his arm strength looked poor during Senior Bowl practices. It's one thing to show good arm strength in a scripted, controlled environment like a pro day; it's quite another to do it against live competition. http://www.mwcconnection.com/2012/1/23/2728618/2012-senior-bowl-practices-kellen-moore-struggled Again, he completed 74% of his passes. Many were sideline routes. Not sure at which point all of these errant "non-driven" passes occured that brough his completion rate down to 74%. As for the second bolded part--this kid was on national TV almost weekly demonstrating his passing skills against "live competition". Making a decision on a guy based on his performance in a college all-star game isn't very sophisticated. Here's a vids. He looks like he has zip on the ball. Throws it everywhere. He looks better throwing than Tannehill, for sure. Edited March 28, 2012 by Mr. WEO
gumby Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 If you're not going to draft a QB in the 1st round than don't bother. The chances of mid to late round QBs developing into a starting NFL QB are extremely slim. If you want just a back-up there are better ways to find one.
Mr. WEO Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 If you're not going to draft a QB in the 1st round than don't bother. The chances of mid to late round QBs developing into a starting NFL QB are extremely slim. If you want just a back-up there are better ways to find one. Funniest post of the day.
thebandit27 Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Again, he completed 74% of his passes. Many were sideline routes. Not sure at which point all of these errant "non-driven" passes occured that brough his completion rate down to 74%. As for the second bolded part--this kid was on national TV almost weekly demonstrating his passing skills against "live competition". Making a decision on a guy based on his performance in a college all-star game isn't very sophisticated. Here's a vids. He looks like he has zip on the ball. Throws it everywhere. youtube.com/watch?v=AxvkSDCOFeI He looks better throwing than Tannehill, for sure. I've watched plenty of Kellen Moore, and I'm sorry, but I don't agree with your assessment. He made his living at Boise State throwing seam routes, hitches, touch passes, roll-outs, slants, and--yes--the occasional deep ball to a wide open Titus Young et al. In both the games and highlights I've watched, the vast majority of his throws are touch passes and timing patterns, not driving the ball through tight coverage. Believe or not, it's okay for someone to have watched him play and come to a different conclusion than you. To dismiss a different opinion as someone making a decision based on limited information, simply because it differs from your own, is--in my opinion--pretty short-sighted (and not in the least bit sophisticated if you ask me). And, for the record, watching both Tannehill and Moore throw the ball is--to me--like observing the difference between Ben Roethlisberger's passing ability and Chase Daniel's. Funniest post of the day. Actually, there's a bit of credence to his post. Outside of Brady, the vast majority of the top QBs in the NFL are first-round picks. That doesn't mean you should never draft one outside the first round, but it also isn't the ridiculous notion that you seem to be painting it as. I mean, honestly, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Manning, Manning, Rivers, Stafford, Cutler, Newton, Ryan, Flacco, Vick, etc. Really, other than Brady, the only exception is Brees, and he was the 1st pick of the 2nd round. After all, the guy did qualify his statement by saying "The chances of mid to late round QBs developing into a starting NFL QB are extremely slim. If you want just a back-up there are better ways to find one"...not sure what about that was so funny...
RyanC883 Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 In the 3rd I'd be tempted but would rather pick him up in the 4th or later. This young man has proven he can flat out play for 2+ years in college. Of course no guarantee that will translate to NFL but who is ever guaranteed. He's a leader, knows how to win, is intelligent, driven, just wins. This man will find a home, I hope it's with the Bills midround. How's he compare to Wilson from Wisconsin. If we get either one with a late round pick I'll be happy. I think they both have the ability to be good QB's, and the potential to suprise.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 I've watched plenty of Kellen Moore, and I'm sorry, but I don't agree with your assessment. He made his living at Boise State throwing seam routes, hitches, touch passes, roll-outs, slants, and--yes--the occasional deep ball to a wide open Titus Young et al. In both the games and highlights I've watched, the vast majority of his throws are touch passes and timing patterns, not driving the ball through tight coverage. Believe or not, it's okay for someone to have watched him play and come to a different conclusion than you. To dismiss a different opinion as someone making a decision based on limited information, simply because it differs from your own, is--in my opinion--pretty short-sighted (and not in the least bit sophisticated if you ask me). And, for the record, watching both Tannehill and Moore throw the ball is--to me--like observing the difference between Ben Roethlisberger's passing ability and Chase Daniel's. Actually, there's a bit of credence to his post. Outside of Brady, the vast majority of the top QBs in the NFL are first-round picks. That doesn't mean you should never draft one outside the first round, but it also isn't the ridiculous notion that you seem to be painting it as. I mean, honestly, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Manning, Manning, Rivers, Stafford, Cutler, Newton, Ryan, Flacco, Vick, etc. Really, other than Brady, the only exception is Brees, and he was the 1st pick of the 2nd round. After all, the guy did qualify his statement by saying "The chances of mid to late round QBs developing into a starting NFL QB are extremely slim. If you want just a back-up there are better ways to find one"...not sure what about that was so funny... YES! to this whole post. Glad someone else saw what I saw. And I agree with Gumby. If we want to take this kid as nothing more than a maybe backup, then fine, take him in the 6th. But if you are looking for an upgrade to Fitz, then you have to go with the "Top Tier" QB in the draft. Last year it was just Newton. This year it's Luck and RG3. Anything in the middle rounds is a waste of a pick.
Mr. WEO Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 I've watched plenty of Kellen Moore, and I'm sorry, but I don't agree with your assessment. He made his living at Boise State throwing seam routes, hitches, touch passes, roll-outs, slants, and--yes--the occasional deep ball to a wide open Titus Young et al. In both the games and highlights I've watched, the vast majority of his throws are touch passes and timing patterns, not driving the ball through tight coverage. Believe or not, it's okay for someone to have watched him play and come to a different conclusion than you. To dismiss a different opinion as someone making a decision based on limited information, simply because it differs from your own, is--in my opinion--pretty short-sighted (and not in the least bit sophisticated if you ask me). And, for the record, watching both Tannehill and Moore throw the ball is--to me--like observing the difference between Ben Roethlisberger's passing ability and Chase Daniel's. Actually, there's a bit of credence to his post. Outside of Brady, the vast majority of the top QBs in the NFL are first-round picks. That doesn't mean you should never draft one outside the first round, but it also isn't the ridiculous notion that you seem to be painting it as. I mean, honestly, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Manning, Manning, Rivers, Stafford, Cutler, Newton, Ryan, Flacco, Vick, etc. Really, other than Brady, the only exception is Brees, and he was the 1st pick of the 2nd round. After all, the guy did qualify his statement by saying "The chances of mid to late round QBs developing into a starting NFL QB are extremely slim. If you want just a back-up there are better ways to find one"...not sure what about that was so funny... All of the pass types/patterns you mentioned are staples of the pro game. He makes all of those throws. Can he throw into tight coverage? There is evidence on the videos that he can. You seemed to be basing your opinion on his questionable skills on his Senior Bowl experience (it's all you mentioned). If you are now claiming that your opinion was formed by watching him play frequently, then we can agree to disagree on his skill set. Gumby said: "If you're not going to draft a QB in the 1st round than don't bother". Such a blanket statement is ridiculous, regardless of qualification. A QB drafted outside the first round can become a starter, perhaps not in his rookie year. The AFCE had a single 1st rounder starting at QB last season. Moore wouldn't be Fitz's replacement, but he would be for the awful Thigpen. And Moore has actual potential. If he doesn't work out--so what, we spent a 4th or 5th on him.
Doc Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 If they could get him after the 3rd round, I'd be fine with it.
Max997 Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 ...if available in round 3, I think he's another Brees. Understand he's not prototypical, but 4 year starter, ton of wins, bad weather experience, all the same knocks as Brees coming out....but see how that worked out. how many QBs have had those same knocks...how many of them have turned into Brees?
JohnC Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) If they could get him after the 3rd round, I'd be fine with it. If they could get him after the fourth round I'd be fine with it. He is the type of player who could be a star in the CFL. If he had arm strength he would be a terrific prospect regardless of his stature. He is as good as any qb in this draft in understanding the game. Knowing where to go with the ball is very important. Not being able to get it there with adequate velocity is a deficiency that is difficult to overcome. Where I agree with WEO is that for a lower round pick he is worth the gamble. Doc, are you aware that you have agreed with WEO (somewhat) for the first time in your adult life? Don't you know that when you are a yang you are not allowed to agree with a ying? Are you OK? Edited March 28, 2012 by JohnC
NewEra Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 1332961262[/url]' post='2424453']All of the pass types/patterns you mentioned are staples of the pro game. He makes all of those throws. Can he throw into tight coverage? There is evidence on the videos that he can. You seemed to be basing your opinion on his questionable skills on his Senior Bowl experience (it's all you mentioned). If you are now claiming that your opinion was formed by watching him play frequently, then we can agree to disagree on his skill set. Gumby said: "If you're not going to draft a QB in the 1st round than don't bother". Such a blanket statement is ridiculous, regardless of qualification. A QB drafted outside the first round can become a starter, perhaps not in his rookie year. The AFCE had a single 1st roundeWr starting at QB last season. Moore wouldn't be Fitz's replacement, but he would be for the awful Thigpen. And Moore has actual potential. If he doesn't work out--so what, we spent a 4th or 5th on him. I've read the entire back and forth and I agree with the others. You mention only 1 starting qb in the AFC east is a first rd pick. Yes, and 3 of the 4 should be backups. Brady being 1 of a few exceptions. The majority of the really good qbs in the league are 1st rd picks. It's a fact. Sure there are exceptions, as there are to every facet of life, but the chances are slim that a qb drafted after rd 1 win become a star. That's what you want playing the qb position for you, and it's unlikely you'll find it outside rd 1. You say Moore has actual potential while comparing him to thigpen, while thigpen has actually had success in the nfl. If Moore has potential than thigpen most definitely does as well. We'll continue this topic in 7 years. Or maybe 2, when Moore is out of the league.
Recommended Posts