apuszczalowski Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 I share your concern. Floyd went to ND and seems to be a big time player. But this draft appears to have a lot of receivers, i.e., Stephen Hill, Kendall Wright, Rueben Randal (a player that I've heard the Bills like and might be there in the 2nd.), Alshon Jeffrey, Mohamed Senu, Brian Quick, Nick Toon, Marvin Jones (a player I like), Chris Givens (very fast), and Joe Adams to list just a few. Buffalo is looking for a 2nd. receiver (second to Stevie). Do you take a 2nd. receiver at #10? Buddy said we need linebackers and will draft probably two. I would not be unhappy in we took one at #10. And this is the difference between making a team better and spinning your wheels in mediocrity. Yes the bills have SJ as the #1 WR right now and are looking for a #2. So your saying they shouldn't take someone who has potential to be better because they are only looking for a #2? If you can get a guy with the potential to be better then SJ to be the #2 for now, you do it and give Fitz more weapons on offence. You can't keep ignoring the offence and expect the defence to carry you, look at the 49ers this offseason, they went out and tried to get Peyton and upgrade their WRs cause they learned from last season that a top defence can only carry you so far, you need to score points too.
bkep32 Posted March 26, 2012 Posted March 26, 2012 Regarding the 3rd year break out thing...... Keep in mind that in drafting a Floyd type player he is NOT your number 1 receiver......This is Stevie Johnston's team....he is your number 1 guy (or first option for those who dont beleive in number 1....number 2...etc) Because you have an already entrenched primary option (we are also set at slot receiver and tight end) he will not be EXPECTED to put up huge numbers in his first year....he will do what he was brought in to do - Take the lid off the defense - Catch some deep balls - Catch some jump balls - Catch some red zone TD's Floyd would not need to be a 1000 yard receiver in his first year in order to be successful.....and then as time goes on he gets better and better. Don Beebe was not the primary option when Andre Reed was on the field....but he def filled a need. Great point!. 10 is to rich to spend on a WR unless it blackmon. There are plenty of WR in the 2nd round that we can get to do those things and will be productive in years 2 and 3 and battle stevie for #1. A-la...Hill, Jeffery....I really like mcnutt in later rounds. He is 6'2'' pushing 6'3. 216 ran sub 4.5 40, can jump, box out CB's, needs to run routes a little stonger...plus he was an ex QB so you know his football IQ is there.
Cheddar's Dad Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 plus he was an ex QB so you know his football IQ is there. Maybe he's an ex QB because he's too dumb to play QB?
hondo in seattle Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 And this is the difference between making a team better and spinning your wheels in mediocrity. Yes the bills have SJ as the #1 WR right now and are looking for a #2. So your saying they shouldn't take someone who has potential to be better because they are only looking for a #2? If you can get a guy with the potential to be better then SJ to be the #2 for now, you do it and give Fitz more weapons on offence. You can't keep ignoring the offence and expect the defence to carry you, look at the 49ers this offseason, they went out and tried to get Peyton and upgrade their WRs cause they learned from last season that a top defence can only carry you so far, you need to score points too. +1 The more weapons, the better. No one lines up on the field as the #2 WR. There's really no such position. There are two - or more - WRs on the field every play and the more good ones, the more likely you are to score. Andre Reed was our #1 in the glory days. But the Bills got a future Hall of Famer to play opposite him. It's on of the reasons the K-Gun was so prolific.
Cheddar's Dad Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 And this is the difference between making a team better and spinning your wheels in mediocrity. Yes the bills have SJ as the #1 WR right now and are looking for a #2. So your saying they shouldn't take someone who has potential to be better because they are only looking for a #2? If you can get a guy with the potential to be better then SJ to be the #2 for now, you do it and give Fitz more weapons on offence. You can't keep ignoring the offence and expect the defence to carry you, look at the 49ers this offseason, they went out and tried to get Peyton and upgrade their WRs cause they learned from last season that a top defence can only carry you so far, you need to score points too. Buffalo's offense was much more productive, before Fitz's cracked ribs, than San Frans'. Explain why you think it will be less productive in 2012? Our Defense, however, was much less productive than SF. Buffalo needs a DE because Anderson is a part timer. It needs an OLB because Morrison lacks speed and was an Oakland castoff, and it needs a Corner. I don't know who you want to see drafted but if it's Floyd, what exactly separates him from the WRs that will be there in the 2nd.?
1B4IDie Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) Comparing to Nelson isn't really accurate, as Nelson plays a different position (slot). Would be more accurate to compare him to the line up of Jones, Smith, etc... Correct Floyd would come in and compete to take ownership of the Donald Jones/Brad Smith/CJ Spiller/Roosevelt/Ruvell Martin / Joey The Ball Boy / Jimmy the Security Guard / Bobby The Groundskeeper role. You'd need to compare his perspective stats to Donald Jones/Brad Smith/CJ Spiller/Roosevelt/Ruvell Martin / Joey The Ball Boy / Jimmy the Security Guard / Bobby The Groundskeeper stats from last year. Nelson will be on the field with Floyd and SJ13. A point to remember is that even though Floyd would be a rookie, he'd not expected to be the focal point of the offense right off the bat. He could provide an extremely valuable weapon while learning on the job. He's only going to draw the #2 CB, which will increase his chances for success. Exactly It's not puzzling to me. Hill has not shown he's a consistently reliable receiver. He just does not have enough catches and, because of that, is a big risk in the first round. Don't get hung up on a guy just because he ran fast. If you want a tall receiver that can catch the ball in the end zone like Moss, Plaxico, and Johnson, draft the 6'6", 250 lb. Fleener. Don't feed the trolls. Regarding the 3rd year break out thing...... Keep in mind that in drafting a Floyd type player he is NOT your number 1 receiver......This is Stevie Johnston's team....he is your number 1 guy (or first option for those who dont beleive in number 1....number 2...etc) Because you have an already entrenched primary option (we are also set at slot receiver and tight end) he will not be EXPECTED to put up huge numbers in his first year....he will do what he was brought in to do - Take the lid off the defense - Catch some deep balls - Catch some jump balls - Catch some red zone TD's Floyd would not need to be a 1000 yard receiver in his first year in order to be successful.....and then as time goes on he gets better and better. Don Beebe was not the primary option when Andre Reed was on the field....but he def filled a need. Exactly And this is the difference between making a team better and spinning your wheels in mediocrity. Yes the bills have SJ as the #1 WR right now and are looking for a #2. So your saying they shouldn't take someone who has potential to be better because they are only looking for a #2? If you can get a guy with the potential to be better then SJ to be the #2 for now, you do it and give Fitz more weapons on offence. You can't keep ignoring the offence and expect the defence to carry you, look at the 49ers this offseason, they went out and tried to get Peyton and upgrade their WRs cause they learned from last season that a top defence can only carry you so far, you need to score points too. Exactly. Floyd is tailor fit for this team. He his coming off of back to back 1,000 yard seasons. His best year came when he was the focal point of the passing offense. He had better combine numbers than AJ Green, so You know he is an athlete that should be able to beat coverage with speed and leaping ability. SJ13 is a leader in the locker room, aside from the celebrations, he seems to be taking his leadership role in practice and in the meeting rooms seriously. He would be a great mentor for Floyd. If it weren't for the alcohol related incidents he would be a consensus Top 5 pick. WRs with his on field resume, size and athleticism don't come around as often as the OP would lead you to believe. The 3 year rule on WRs since becoming a cliche has almost become passé. Look at the league since 2009. You have DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, Percy Harvin, Hakeen Nicks, Kenny Britt, Mike Wallace, Demarius Thomas, Dez Bryant, Mike Williams, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Torey Smith, Greg Little. Passing offenses in college use a spread often, NFL offenses are now spreading the field with receivers from a shotgun as well. College WRs have a much easier evolution to the new pass happy NFL. It doesn't take as long to develop a WR's blocking skills because you're slinging the ball all over the place. Not to mention Floyd actually has a resume of blocking effectively down the field. If Nix and Gailey think that Floyd is mature enough to deal with alcohol when having even less structure around his life as a professional, in a drinking town like Buffalo and that the incidents are not a view into a serious alcohol related issues than picking Floyd a no brainer. Getting 40 Receptions 570 yards and 3.5 TDs added on to an offense build around FJ & CJ out of the backfield, SJ outside and Nelson and Chandler between the hashes, is actually huge, with the potential to become a Dez Bryant - Hakeem Nicks - with a ceiling of even an AJ80 potential. Its the difference in converting 3rd downs and getting TDs that wouldn't be there with Donald Jones et al. It leads to more Ws in 2012. Edited March 27, 2012 by Why So Serious?
Brainiac72 Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 we need a receiving weapon... does it matter if it's a "#2" WR or a #1B" TE? we could use both, and Chan would likely find a way to do so. i think rules on exact numbers of personnel on the field are gone... 4 WR's... 2 TE's... as long as you got a mismatch out there, yer good. personally i think Fleener could help just as much, and has a better chance of being available later, so i'd tend to go that route (though both could go in the 20's).
bizell Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 i don't like hill or floyd personally, i'd rather have jeffery than those two.
EldaBillsFan Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 LOL he is an Elite WR! Watch the games! We would be lucky even if he feel to 10! And if he does fall to 10 its not because he isn't a 70-80 1000 yard 6-8 td 15yrds per catch player...it will be because WR isn't a majot need or everyone is thinking we can grabCAPABLE wr's later....
rstencel Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 Floyd is going to the Jags so it wont matter i dont buy into the it takes a WR 3 years logic either...if a guy can play and has a coach putting him in position to succeed he will perform DeSean Jackson was drafted by Philly who runs a west coast system which is considered one of the hardest to learn and contribute on the field but he contributed and had a solid rookie year its not always about the stats...putting another quality receiver on the field will only help the rest of the offense Why arent you buying the 3 year thing. While some offenses are simple and anyone can step in that has been in a pro system in college, not all the recievers have, and some have come in without even knowing how to run the passing tree routes. Most pro teams require recievers to either be in a spot in a specified amount of time, or to read the defense as ball is snapped and adjust thier route accordingly. Have to know the routes and the offense very well in order to be a primary target in this type of offense. While can get some catches and some yards if gifted enough, until the QB trusts that he will make the right read and be in the right spot at right time, he will not be at top of list for QB to look for. There are always exceptions, but most players take time to get to that point, and are complemantary peices till they do. I do not know if he played in a pro style offense, or how well he knows how to run routes, or if he ever has been asked to read and adjust routes in college, cuase really haven't looked at him. I am in the group that doesnt like idea of taking a WR high in first round unless he is an elite talent however, and from what i have heard about him to this point, there are a lot who have questioned whether he is an elite talent.
John from Riverside Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 You know...the thing that might actually sway the bills on Floyd is the blocking ability.....we require our WR's to block which is why you see the bills going more toward over 6' over 200 pound guys.
BillsCelticsAngelsBama Posted March 27, 2012 Posted March 27, 2012 (edited) I wouldn't mind wright in the 2nd or 3rd but he is very small. We need size and hands. I'm sorry to repeat myself but after Blackmon and flloyd receivers drop like crazy. I'd rath have a sure pick then a long stretch. We need a WR that can make an impact right away. I think IMO he's the most NFL ready receiver even more so then Blackmon. Ima big ND fan and have watched flloyd for years. Kid is a beast and reliable unlike our entire receiving core. If we could get flloyd and wright now that would be BA Actually, IMO after Blackmon there is big dropoff. Floyd is one of 15-20 WR's that could make it in this league. After about 10-12 lineman the rest can't tie their shoes without falling over. Unless Blackmon falls to #10 I wouldn't go WR until later. Oh and by the way there are alot of receivers coming out who had iffy QB play not just Michael Floyd. I am hoping Miami takes him so I won't get ready to spew my lunch if we choose him. But I think Buddy is alot smarter than to choose him that high. LOL he is an Elite WR! Watch the games! We would be lucky even if he feel to 10! And if he does fall to 10 its not because he isn't a 70-80 1000 yard 6-8 td 15yrds per catch player...it will be because WR isn't a majot need or everyone is thinking we can grabCAPABLE wr's later.... Mom told you Not to ditch typing class !! Now look at you. Edited March 27, 2012 by MOVALLEYRANDY
Pete Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 The WR I love in this draft is mohamed sanu. Best hands in draft, big at 6' 2 211- he just ran a 4.41 on his pro day
FleaMoulds80 Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 Quickly: I have not posted on here in a very very long time, but I do check this page daily and love a vast majority of the insight and information I read. Also - this board was the only page I checked on my phone when traveling during the Mario-Mania day and that thread (yes, THAT one) was incredible. Anyways, this topic - and perhaps it was discussed in a previous thread, but I did search and nothing came up that I skimmed over - revolves around the idea of drafting Michael Floyd at #10. I 100% agree that our offense needs a few more playmakers and a number-two WR is a must. That said, looking back on the list of wide-outs that have been drafted in the first round, is Michael Floyd a best use of our resources? Let's get this out of the way: Michael Floyd is not an "Elite Wide Receiver Prospect" a la Andre Reed, Calvin Johnson, etc. He has some great qualities, but he is a much riskier prospect than say Calvin Johnson or AJ Green. A guy like Michael Floyd might in fact turn out to be a great player. But most prospects like him do not really blossom until their 3rd year. And that is what bothers me. This has become such a common factor that it is now a cliche "The third year for a WR is when they break out!" Is it doing our team any favors TODAY by drafting Michael Floyd at #10? Let's assume he has a "typical" year for a player like him and produces in the ballpark of other first round WR that werent considered "elite prospects" over the past 5 drafts (I discounted Calvin Johnson and AJ Green for "elite" purposes, and 2008 didnt have a first rd WR!) An average season is 40 Receptions, 570 yards, 3.5 TDs - I will not take the time to source my research but you will just have to trust me on the numbers. For reference, David Nelson put up 61/653/5 last year. Again, Michael Floyd might end up being a great WR and actually, the average numbers jumped up (a little) in latter seasons, but it does worry me that we might not see the pay-off in our top 10 pick for three years, especially if we can get a LT, LB, or CB that can start for AND PRODUCE for us right away. Thoughts? I know our team is not exactly built to "win now" but opportunity costs are still an issue. Am I being too short-sighted on this? Andre Reed was not an Elite WR prospect. He wasn't even a WR coming out of college. He played TE at Kutztown.
CarolinaBill Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 We are better served taking Gilmore at #10 and Jeffrey @ 41. Alshon has the best hands in this draft, can climb the ladder for any jump ball, and has no problem going over the middle or blocking in the run game. You won't get better value than this scenario, 2 day one starters that can lock up their respective positions for the next 4 plus years.
HornellBillsFan Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 I'm of the opinion that Floyd will drop and get picked between picks 24-30 to a team that has established veteran players who he'd have to answer to were Floyd to go on a drunken binge and get arrested. I also think that Stephen Hill will get drafted before him with his highest ceiling being the Bills pick at #10. It's interesting that Dontari Poe shot up the internet draft boards based solely on his workouts, yet Hill garners no such favor. That's very puzzling to me. I truly think that Stephen Hill is very high on a lot of NFL team's boards based on his insane measurables and workout performances. This is a passing league and having a superfast tall threat on the outside is a huge advantage. It's also a huge advantage in the redzone to have a guy that can catch the ball over the DBs heads like Moss, Plaxico and Calvin Johnson. There's a lot of Floyd talk on this board but I see no way the Bills touch him. They're a young team and they want solid players without character concerns that could derail the good thing they have going. In the end, I think baring a trade down (which we all want) it's going to be either Kuechly or Hill at #10. You are insane. Floyd is some huge character risk?? You are waaaay exaggerating that and suspect that you are a typical Notre Dame hater. Stephen Hill is getting any hype at all based SOLELY on the 40 time he ran at the combine. He wasn't in a passing offense at Ga. Tech but still has almost nothing to go off of that would show he is a top 10 WR. Thank God you aren't the Bills GM, taking Hill at 10 would be a total joke. Tall receiver? You do realize that Floyd is 6'3" and not 5'11", right? And he is also a total bad ass blocker. Draft Stephen Hill at 10, huh? Holy s**t... The WR I love in this draft is mohamed sanu. Best hands in draft, big at 6' 2 211- he just ran a 4.41 on his pro day Everyone here claims that the receiver they like best has the best hands. Lol. And Alshon?? Pleaase. In the off season he is lazy and balloons up to about 240. Not to mention he is not very fast or explosive. And the Alshon lover talks about him being a blocker?? Floyd is EASILY the best blocking WR in this draft. I actually hope they go with Kuechly at 10. Safest pick and a total stud.
HornellBillsFan Posted March 28, 2012 Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Regarding the 3rd year break out thing...... Keep in mind that in drafting a Floyd type player he is NOT your number 1 receiver......This is Stevie Johnston's team....he is your number 1 guy (or first option for those who dont beleive in number 1....number 2...etc) Because you have an already entrenched primary option (we are also set at slot receiver and tight end) he will not be EXPECTED to put up huge numbers in his first year....he will do what he was brought in to do - Take the lid off the defense - Catch some deep balls - Catch some jump balls - Catch some red zone TD's Floyd would not need to be a 1000 yard receiver in his first year in order to be successful.....and then as time goes on he gets better and better. Don Beebe was not the primary option when Andre Reed was on the field....but he def filled a need. And within a couple years Floyd would obviously be the main man. Laugh now and find out later if the Bills end up with him. Hill had a 29 yard per catch avg.?? He had a me 28 catches last season and 49 total over his three college seasons!!!!! He most likely caught long ones almost every time because Ga. tech actually throwing the ball probably surprised the hell out of the defense. Edited March 28, 2012 by HornellBillsFan
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