I don't understand all the LT being biggest need talk

[buffan031]

Our oline was the best it was in years last year. I'm not saying it was fantastic but it was solid. Whether it was Hairston, Bell or Levitre at left tackle they all played well as did the whole oline. We also have a track record with being able to develop late round LT picks as well as undrafted players at LT into being good to great players. Jason Peters was an undrafted tight end that we molded into one of the best tackles in the league and Demetrius Bell who was a 7th round pick, while not great was built up into a solid starter. I believe our coaching staff can do the same with Hairston as well. I believe that we should give Hairston at least one shot to be our starting left tackle this year if it doesn't work out then we can just either draft someone to fill the void next year or draft someone in the 2nd, 3rd or middle rounds that can come in and compete with him for the starting spot. The only sure fire guy at tackle in the draft this year is Kalil who won't be there when we draft at 10 and there are questions about both Reiff and Martin especially Martin who had a lousy pro day and could only lift 225 pounds on the bench press 20 times as well as questions about his stance and footwork. Therefore, with that being said i believe the bills have to place their focus on two other players. I believe WR is our biggest need by far. You cannot look at the other wide receivers on this roster and say that you would be comfortable with any one of them starting opposite Stevie. Thats why i think our main player we should be targeting if he is there is Michael Floyd. This guy is just to good to pass up even if Martin or Reiff are there. There are to many questions about the other receivers after the top 2 even though it is deep. Floyd is the one WR that can come in and contribute and be a difference maker day one at the receiver position. If Floyd is not there then i believe we should go with Dre Kirkpatrick at CB from Alabama. This guy is huge at 6'3, has very good speed, is great in coverage and is not afraid to hit and will again have more of an impact than any of the left tackles we could take there. If neither one of these players are there i believe they can trade down and grab a LT at that point.

Edited March 24, 2012 by buffan031

[808]

with bell not on the team currently its a position we need to address. plus there was so many injuries guys were playing out of position. the line was also "good" because of schem. ran a ton of screens/3 step drops to get the ball out as quick as possible. and thats not to say fitz wasnt under pressure. idk if rieff/martin are blue chip day one starters but i dont care about bench press much id rather they make these players deadlift and squat if we are gonna use weight lifting to judge strength.

even if we do resign bell i think they still look for a tackle. i like our interior line.

 

one thing im not gonna be shocked about either is decastro being picked he is a blue chip nasty dude and if wood goes down he can slide in to center. but id rather they didnt and wood never get hurt again. that guy plays so good when healthy

[OldTimer1960]

Our oline was the best it was in years last year. I'm not saying it was fantastic but it was solid. Whether it was Hairston, Bell or Levitre at left tackle they all played well as did the whole oline. We also have a track record with being able to develop late round LT picks as well as undrafted players at LT into being good to great players. Jason Peters was an undrafted tight end that we molded into one of the best tackles in the league and Demetrius Bell who was a 7th round pick, while not great was built up into a solid starter. I believe our coaching staff can do the same with Hairston as well. I believe that we should give Hairston at least one shot to be our starting left tackle this year if it doesn't work out then we can just either draft someone to fill the void next year or draft someone in the 2nd, 3rd or middle rounds that can come in and compete with him for the starting spot. The only sure fire guy at tackle in the draft this year is Kalil who won't be there when we draft at 10 and there are questions about both Reiff and Martin especially Martin who had a lousy pro day and could only lift 225 pounds on the bench press 20 times as well as questions about his stance and footwork. Therefore, with that being said i believe the bills have to place their focus on two other players. I believe WR is our biggest need by far. You cannot look at the other wide receivers on this roster and say that you would be comfortable with any one of them starting opposite Stevie. Thats why i think our main player we should be targeting if he is there is Michael Floyd. This guy is just to good to pass up even if Martin or Reiff are there. There are to many questions about the other receivers after the top 2 even though it is deep. Floyd is the one WR that can come in and contribute and be a difference maker day one at the receiver position. If Floyd is not there then i believe we should go with Dre Kirkpatrick at CB from Alabama. This guy is huge at 6'3, has very good speed, is great in coverage and is not afraid to hit and will again have more of an impact than any of the left tackles we could take there. If neither one of these players are there i believe they can trade down and grab a LT at that point.

 

I have to disagree that the Bills' OL was "solid" last year. It was better than the disaster that it had been in the past, for sure, but the OL's

pass blocking weakness was masked by the short-fast passing game that the offense adopted. Having better blocking OTs would enable

Fitz to have more than a micro-second to stand in the pocket and open up a bit of a down-field passing threat.

 

I share your concern about Reiff, Martin and Adams, but I think that the conclusion that the Bills' shouldn't try to improve the OT spots is

off-base.

 

To the point that the Bills' have gotten by with 7th rounders at LT in Jason Peters and Bell, the same can be said for WR where there is almost

nobody on the roster that was drafted before round 7, many weren't drafted at all. While I think that WR needs to be upgraded too, I could

make the argument that the WRs last year were as "solid" as the OL was. Indeed, both the OL and WR group had serious shortcomings that

Gailey and the offensive staff did their best to hide.

 

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I also disagree that Michael Floyd is "too good to pass up". Some here on this board are making him

out to be some freakishly good can't-miss prospect like Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson. I don't see it. I see a guy who is a good

prospect with size, adequate speed and very good production at a big-time program - but a guy with major red-flags given that he

nearly blew his last college season by having his 3rd off-field problem (all alcohol related including a DUI).

 

I think Floyd is a good enough prospect to consider at #10, but I see him in a mix of about 10-15 other players that are all nearly

the same level prospect. I may be wrong and he may be the next Fitzgerald, but I would rather take my chances with another player

who has shown that he can control himself off the field and has pretty similar talent on the field.

Edited March 24, 2012 by OldTimer1960

[frogger]

How many remember the rep count on Bell's 225?

 

20 is more than twice, I'm not a Martin supporter, but the bench press means little to me.

 

The answer was 9

[Billsguy]

"I don't understand all the LT being biggest need talk"

 

You're right! You don't understand.

[buffan031]

I have to disagree that the Bills' OL was "solid" last year. It was better than the disaster that it had been in the past, for sure, but the OL's

pass blocking weakness was masked by the short-fast passing game that the offense adopted. Having better blocking OTs would enable

Fitz to have more than a micro-second to stand in the pocket and open up a bit of a down-field passing threat.

 

I share your concern about Reiff, Martin and Adams, but I think that the conclusion that the Bills' shouldn't try to improve the OT spots.

 

To the point that the Bills' have gotten by with 7th rounders at LT in Jason Peters and Bell, the same can be said for WR where there is almost

nobody on the roster that was drafted before round 7, many weren't drafted at all. While I think that WR needs to be upgraded too, I could

make the argument that the WRs last year were as "solid" as the OL was. Indeed, both the OL and WR group had serious shortcomings that

Gailey and the offensive staff did their best to hide.

 

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I also disagree that Michael Floyd is "too good to pass up". Some here on this board are making him

out to be some freakishly good can't-miss prospect like Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson. I don't see it. I see a guy who is a good

prospect with size, adequate speed and very good production at a big-time program - but a guy with major red-flags given that he

nearly blew his last college season by having his 3rd off-field problem (all alcohol related including a DUI).

 

I think Floyd is a good enough prospect to consider at #10, but I see him in a mix of about 10-15 other players that are all nearly

the same level prospect. I may be wrong and he may be the next Fitzgerald, but I would rather take my chances with another player

who has shown that he can control himself off the field and has pretty similar talent on the field.

 

Late round gems WR's like Stevie, Colston, Miles Austin are few and far between. I think the receiving class is deep and wouldn't mind taking a Stephen Hill in the 2nd if there or a Nick Toon in the 3rd but Floyd just has the perfect size and skill set at a skill postion to be able to make an immediate impact, he is a difference make which i don't see from any of the other WR's on our roster nor in the draft. I think we could wait till the 2nd round on tackle and get an Andrew Datko someone who is also a great tackle prospect which probably wouldn't be much different then either one of the guys they can get at 10 anyway. Plus i still think our coaching staff will be able to build Hairston up nicely. They should be given at least a shot to do so

 

"I don't understand all the LT being biggest need talk"

 

You're right! You don't understand.

 

Your right i don't because it's not. Take a look at the other receivers outside of stevie on this roster and tell me that your comfortable putting them as number 2 receiver

[ramses]

yeah, there's been a lot of trashing of our o-line last year, which really doesn't make too much sense to me. that was probably one of our best/most talented positions as a whole last year, and one of the best o-lines we have had in years. yes, you can try to explain the ranking by saying that fitz gets rid of the ball quickly, but that doesn't explain how we were at the top of the league in rush yards per attempt (even with most teams in the 2nd half of the season stacking the box because we couldn't throw). it's not likely that we ran well because of the o-line but were rarely sacked in spite of the o-line. the more likely answer is that overall, we have a good group.

 

having said that, LT probably was the weakest position on the line. and we can use C and LT depth

[KD in CA]

Our oline was the best it was in years last year. I'm not saying it was fantastic but it was solid. Whether it was Hairston, Bell or Levitre at left tackle they all played well as did the whole oline. We also have a track record with being able to develop late round LT picks as well as undrafted players at LT into being good to great players. Jason Peters was an undrafted tight end that we molded into one of the best tackles in the league and Demetrius Bell who was a 7th round pick, while not great was built up into a solid starter. I believe our coaching staff can do the same with Hairston as well. I believe that we should give Hairston at least one shot to be our starting left tackle this year if it doesn't work out then we can just either draft someone to fill the void next year or draft someone in the 2nd, 3rd or middle rounds that can come in and compete with him for the starting spot. The only sure fire guy at tackle in the draft this year is Kalil who won't be there when we draft at 10 and there are questions about both Reiff and Martin especially Martin who had a lousy pro day and could only lift 225 pounds on the bench press 20 times as well as questions about his stance and footwork. Therefore, with that being said i believe the bills have to place their focus on two other players. I believe WR is our biggest need by far. You cannot look at the other wide receivers on this roster and say that you would be comfortable with any one of them starting opposite Stevie. Thats why i think our main player we should be targeting if he is there is Michael Floyd. This guy is just to good to pass up even if Martin or Reiff are there. There are to many questions about the other receivers after the top 2 even though it is deep. Floyd is the one WR that can come in and contribute and be a difference maker day one at the receiver position. If Floyd is not there then i believe we should go with Dre Kirkpatrick at CB from Alabama. This guy is huge at 6'3, has very good speed, is great in coverage and is not afraid to hit and will again have more of an impact than any of the left tackles we could take there. If neither one of these players are there i believe they can trade down and grab a LT at that point.

 

You didn't see any connection between Bell and Wood going down and the whole team falling apart in the 2d half of the year??

 

Levitre is a G, not a T.

Bell isn't on the team any longer

Hairston is a RT and besides, they need another T no matter where he plays.

 

Whether or not the top prospects are worth picking at 10 is debatable but you'd have to be blind to think LT is not a need for the Bills.

[buffan031]

You didn't see any connection between Bell and Wood going down and the whole team falling apart in the 2d half of the year??

 

Levitre is a G, not a T.

Bell isn't on the team any longer

Hairston is a RT and besides, they need another T no matter where he plays.

 

Whether or not the top prospects are worth picking at 10 is debatable but you'd have to be blind to think LT is not a need for the Bills.

 

I'm not saying that it's not a need I'm just saying it's not the biggest need

[OldTimer1960]

Late round gems WR's like Stevie, Colston, Miles Austin are few and far between. I think the receiving class is deep and wouldn't mind taking a Stephen Hill in the 2nd if there or a Nick Toon in the 3rd but Floyd just has the perfect size and skill set at a skill postion to be able to make an immediate impact, he is a difference make which i don't see from any of the other WR's on our roster nor in the draft. I think we could wait till the 2nd round on tackle and get an Andrew Datko someone who is also a great tackle prospect which probably wouldn't be much different then either one of the guys they can get at 10 anyway. Plus i still think our coaching staff will be able to build Hairston up nicely. They should be given at least a shot to do so

 

 

 

Your right i don't because it's not. Take a look at the other receivers outside of stevie on this roster and tell me that your comfortable putting them as number 2 receiver

 

I am not disagreeing with the notion that generally better players are found in the earlier rounds of the draft. That really is my point. I don't understand the argument

that you have to find a WR early, but can take late-round players and make them good starting OLTs. True, it does sometimes happen at any position that a late

round guy makes it, but it is more likely to get a good starter earlier.

 

I agree that the Bills need another top-level WR and I agree to some degree that Floyd is a good prospect there. I just don't see him as elite or better than players

available at other positions - players who don't have the off-field red-flags that Floyd does.

 

To you point that late round gem WRs like SJ, Colston and Miles Austin are few and far between, I'd add the following to the list:

Wes Welker (undrafted), Victor Cruz (5th), Mario Manningham (3rd, I think), Anquan Bolden (2nd), Brandon Marshall (4th), Steve Smith (Carolina 3rd),

Mike Wallace (3rd), Antonio Brown (6th), Desean Jackson (2nd), Brandon Lloyd (4th).

 

I am pretty sure I could list more, but that is a pretty good list there. I am sure that you could counter with some good starting OTs that were taken later, too, but

I think the list would be shorter (just my opinion).

Edited March 24, 2012 by OldTimer1960

[buffan031]

I am not disagreeing with the notion that generally better players are found in the earlier rounds of the draft. That really is my point. I don't understand the argument

that you have to find a WR early, but can take late-round players and make them good starting OLTs. True, it does sometimes happen at any position that a late

round guy makes it, but it is more likely to get a good starter earlier.

 

I agree that the Bills need another top-level WR and I agree to some degree that Floyd is a good prospect there. I just don't see him as elite or better than players

available at other positions - players who don't have the off-field red-flags that Floyd does.

 

To you point that late round gem WRs like SJ, Colston and Miles Austin are few and far between, I'd add the following to the list:

Wes Welker (undrafted), Victor Cruz (5th), Mario Manningham (3rd, I think), Anquan Bolden (2nd), Brandon Marshall (4th), Steve Smith (Carolina 3rd),

Mike Wallace (3rd), Antonio Brown (6th), Desean Jackson (2nd), Brandon Lloyd (4th).

 

I am pretty sure I could list more, but that is a pretty good list there. I am sure that you could counter with some good starting OTs that were taken later, too, but

I think the list would be shorter (just my opinion).

 

Some of those guys you listed are are 2-4 round picks and thats not what i'm referring to because i believe that they may be able to get a good receivers in those rounds i'm talking about after that. I'm just saying if someone like Floyd is there at 10 we can't say "well you know what we can get Stephen Hill in the 2nd or Nick Toon in the 3rd or this guy in the 4th" because there is a good possibility that they may not be there when you pick and i just think that Floyd's value in that spot is well over any one of the LT prospects at that spot. Part f the reason why the offense went down the shitter in mid season is because we don't have that number 2 guy and why we were sending receivers only 15 yards up the field and guys who can't get seperation and make plays. I know a lot of people as well don't care about what a LT bench's i'm not basing solely off that either but if your going to be a top 10 pick in the draft and a franchise left tackle you have to have strength which he is obviously lacking. I'm referring to Martin

Edited March 24, 2012 by buffan031

[Kelly the Dog]

The only positions on the entire team that the Bills do not have a clear starter at is LT and WR. And if we start Hairston, whom Chan has already publicly stated is not really ready yet, we don't have a back-up, unless anyone wants to count on Sam Young.

 

If we had to go into the season with our roster right now, we could easily put any one of three players into the starting line-up at WR and still have a chance at being a good offense, between Jones, Hagan and Easley (and yes, I know he has yet to play a game, it does not matter. What we need at base level is a big fast guy who can get downfield and make a play once in awhile. He looks to have that ability. The ? is whether he is injury prone or not. To me, he's had one injury not two. The second was an illness that is no longer a factor.

 

Like Jones, Easley cannot be counted on to reliably make plays. But the fact remains that the Bills were extremely good if not unstoppable when Jones was in the line-up and healthy because he could get open and posed a threat.

 

Some will say defenses caught up with us. I don't think that was true at all. It's impossible to know. And I do want an upgrade at #2 WR over Jones.

 

LT, however, is a fair bigger problem and issue and key to our success.

[The Senator]

How many remember the rep count on Bell's 225?

 

20 is more than twice, I'm not a Martin supporter, but the bench press means little to me.

 

The answer was 9

 

You realize you just compared our 7th-round pick (#219 overall), that never played organized football until his sophomore year at Northwestern State, to Stanford's Jonathan Martin - the #2 or #3 rated LT prospect (depending on who you read) in the 2012 NFL draft, yes?

.

Edited March 24, 2012 by The Senator

[SoFFacet]

I have to disagree that the Bills' OL was "solid" last year. It was better than the disaster that it had been in the past, for sure, but the OL's

pass blocking weakness was masked by the short-fast passing game that the offense adopted. Having better blocking OTs would enable

Fitz to have more than a micro-second to stand in the pocket and open up a bit of a down-field passing threat.

 

I share your concern about Reiff, Martin and Adams, but I think that the conclusion that the Bills' shouldn't try to improve the OT spots is

off-base.

 

To the point that the Bills' have gotten by with 7th rounders at LT in Jason Peters and Bell, the same can be said for WR where there is almost

nobody on the roster that was drafted before round 7, many weren't drafted at all. While I think that WR needs to be upgraded too, I could

make the argument that the WRs last year were as "solid" as the OL was. Indeed, both the OL and WR group had serious shortcomings that

Gailey and the offensive staff did their best to hide.

 

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I also disagree that Michael Floyd is "too good to pass up". Some here on this board are making him

out to be some freakishly good can't-miss prospect like Larry Fitzgerald and Calvin Johnson. I don't see it. I see a guy who is a good

prospect with size, adequate speed and very good production at a big-time program - but a guy with major red-flags given that he

nearly blew his last college season by having his 3rd off-field problem (all alcohol related including a DUI).

 

I think Floyd is a good enough prospect to consider at #10, but I see him in a mix of about 10-15 other players that are all nearly

the same level prospect. I may be wrong and he may be the next Fitzgerald, but I would rather take my chances with another player

who has shown that he can control himself off the field and has pretty similar talent on the field.

 

Its fairly hypocritical to insist that the OL only appeared adequate because of our scheme, but not say the same about our WRs. The fact is that other than Stevie, none of our guys can "beat the guy across from them" with any consistency, or at all in some cases. They are 100% dependent on Chan's smoke and mirrors which can be stopped by good defenses, or simply good preparation.

 

We don't have any NFL level WRs on this roster, other than Stevie - and Floyd is basically the definition of a Buddy Nix WR (size, physicality, versatility, vert, speed, hands, blocking... we've been through this list before). Also, enough already with the alcohol thing. The guy drank in college (the horror) but 100% righted the ship and disciplined himself thereafter. He's entering the draft with zero off-the-field worries, as far as I'm concerned.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Our oline was the best it was in years last year. I'm not saying it was fantastic but it was solid.

 

I'm not saying the line was bad - in fact, the line was one of the pleasant surprises of the season

 

But

 

No one who watched the games could see Fitzpatrick having the kind of time in the pocket that some of the other QB get.

 

Rex Ryan was quoted as saying something like "He gets rid of the ball very quickly. That's not necessarily a good thing. We know we're not going to get sacks, and we're OK with that"

Revis was quoted as saying "a couple of times a game, he'll throw the ball right to you"

 

I think those two statements are related, and unless we want to see Fitzy get beaten like an egg cream, the answer is to improve the line.

 

And just as one can find a wonderful (insert position here) in the late rounds, the odds of drafting a top notch LT are much improved drafting early.

[OldTimer1960]

The bench press shows how much strength you have and Martin being a top 3 rated LT should have more than trippled what our past 7th round pick put up.

 

I think it shows more muscle endurance than peak power, but I get your point.

[Kelly the Dog]

I think it shows more muscle endurance than peak power, but I get your point.

 

All 20 reps on the bench press means to me is that in a hurry up offense, Jonathan Martin could pick up and slam down a 450 pound DE 10 plays in a row before he became exhausted.

 

Okay, so maybe a 225 pound DE 20 plays in a row. Or a 275 pound DE 15 plays in a row.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Kelly the Dog

[buffan031]

I'm not saying the line was bad - in fact, the line was one of the pleasant surprises of the season

 

But

 

No one who watched the games could see Fitzpatrick having the kind of time in the pocket that some of the other QB get.

 

Rex Ryan was quoted as saying something like "He gets rid of the ball very quickly. That's not necessarily a good thing. We know we're not going to get sacks, and we're OK with that"

Revis was quoted as saying "a couple of times a game, he'll throw the ball right to you"

 

I think those two statements are related, and unless we want to see Fitzy get beaten like an egg cream, the answer is to improve the line.

 

And just as one can find a wonderful (insert position here) in the late rounds, the odds of drafting a top notch LT are much improved drafting early.

 

I think the other part of it is that Fitz is just a quick decision maker. Not necessarily because of the oline

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Bell isn't on the team any longer

 

Bell isn't on any other team yet, either

 

interesting perspective

[buffan031]

All 20 reps on the bench press means to me is that in a hurry up offense, Jonathan Martin could pick up and slam down a 450 pound DE 10 plays in a row before he became exhausted.

 

Okay, so maybe a 225 pound DE 20 plays in a row. Or a 275 pound DE 15 plays in a row.

 

The Strength is a big thing to look at out of an elite top 3 prospect at ur position. The fact that he only lifted that much can lead people to believe that he may not be able to handle that many bull rushes. But it's not just the bench press, he has the most questions of any of the top 3 LT's because of stance and footwork also

Edited March 24, 2012 by buffan031