Rob's House Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 I'm asking because I honestly don't know, but is it possible the true facts would never have come out if there wasn't such an outrage? From what I've read, the police made up their minds that Zimmerman didn't do anything wrong and that was the end of it. It wasn't until people started going nuts about it that they were forced to dig a little deeper. It seems the facts were already out, just selectively combed over and meted out by the national media. The outcry was never about accompanied by any informed argument that the investigation wasn't performed properly (save a few unsupported allegations). The outrage was because criminal charges weren't filed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) It seems the facts were already out, just selectively combed over and meted out by the national media. The outcry was never about accompanied by any informed argument that the investigation wasn't performed properly (save a few unsupported allegations). The outrage was because criminal charges weren't filed. It's friggin Sanford, florida. They see a young black guy getting shot as a "benefit" to the town. That's the real reason why Zimmerman wasn't/hasn't been arrested. If Martin had been the shooter and the vic was white, Martin's ass would be in the chair already. The biggest issue i have with the whole ordeal is that regardless of how the fight happened, Zimmerman was told by the POLICE to stop following and wait for authorities. He disobeyed by continuing to follow Martin and then confronting him. Edited March 26, 2012 by Ramius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) Is it possible that neither side handled the situation well, or can it only be one side? That is what I have been looking at all along. I saw the PPP thread, that was a lot of politics and such...but The timeline, the "facts" is what I is so clouding the entire story. We do know he had candy, we do know he was shot, we do know that Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch, etc...so when we get the information we have what is "it?" I think closing this thread might be be a good idea, there is already a great discussion on PPP. If a moderator chooses to do so, I would not feel insulted as the gist of what happened, timeline and facts were presented and that has brought me and others up to speed I am sure. Thanks everyone! Edited March 26, 2012 by jboyst62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) The biggest issue i have with the whole ordeal is that regardless of how the fight happened, Zimmerman was told by the POLICE to stop following and wait for authorities. He disobeyed by continuing to follow Martin and then confronting him. This is big point #1. It's clear as day on the 911 tape that they tell Zimmerman to NOT follow Martin. Not even 2 minutes into the call the operator tells him not to follow. Wait for the police, and they police will contact Zimmerman when they get there. The rest of the tape is dripping with Zimmerman setting it up to have some sort of violent confrontation. "They always get away", "he looks wasted", "he's staring at me", "he's coming towards me", "he has his hand in his waste band", "he's coming to check me out, he has something in his hands". THEN STOP FOLLOWING HIM. He might as well be Jimbo and Ned "They're coming right for us!" Is it possible that neither side handled the situation well, or can it only be one side? The problem is, Zimmerman "not handling it well" directly lead to an innocent person being killed. Saying he didnt handle it well is a horrific understatement. It seems the facts were already out, just selectively combed over and meted out by the national media. The outcry was never about accompanied by any informed argument that the investigation wasn't performed properly (save a few unsupported allegations). The outrage was because criminal charges weren't filed. I'd say the fact that Zimmerman wasn't charged is a pretty clear indicator that the investigation was not performed properly. According to police, they believed Zimmerman's story of self-defense. If we're just going to believe the last man standing, then we have some major problems with the system. Eye witnesses had a different story. Furthermore, every legal analyst so far has said that the minute Zimmerman disobeyed the 911 operator, and continued to stalk Martin, he lost all ability to claim "reasonable force" and "Stand Your Ground". Why wasnt that looked into? The police "investigation" is exactly why we are where we are. Edited March 26, 2012 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sig1Hunter Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 This is big point #1. It's clear as day on the 911 tape that they tell Zimmerman to NOT follow Martin. Not even 2 minutes into the call the operator tells him not to follow. Wait for the police, and they police will contact Zimmerman when they get there. The rest of the tape is dripping with Zimmerman setting it up to have some sort of violent confrontation. "They always get away", "he looks wasted", "he's staring at me", "he's coming towards me", "he has his hand in his waste band", "he's coming to check me out, he has something in his hands". THEN STOP FOLLOWING HIM. He might as well be Jimbo and Ned "They're coming right for us!" The problem is, Zimmerman "not handling it well" directly lead to an innocent person being killed. Saying he didnt handle it well is a horrific understatement. I'd say the fact that Zimmerman wasn't charged is a pretty clear indicator that the investigation was not performed properly. According to police, they believed Zimmerman's story of self-defense. If we're just going to believe the last man standing, then we have some major problems with the system. Eye witnesses had a different story. Furthermore, every legal analyst so far has said that the minute Zimmerman disobeyed the 911 operator, and continued to stalk Martin, he lost all ability to claim "reasonable force" and "Stand Your Ground". Why wasnt that looked into? The police "investigation" is exactly why we are where we are. Being from the Central Florida area, and a law enforcement officer, maybe I can shed some light onto the procedures/protocols in place here. In cases such as these, where self defense is claimed as justification to shoot someone it is protocol to send the investigation to the State Attorney's Office to let them investigate. These cases are typically sent to the grand jury by the SAO for the indictment. This is the exact procedure that has been followed in this case. This case has been blown into the public consciousness for one reason, and one reason only: race. Incidents like this happen all too often, and they are handled in the above manner. We, as the public, rarely hear about them because it isn't of interest to the media unless they can get a frenzy whipped up. The manner in which it is being investigated is the way it should be - heads are rolling now because the public doesn't understand the process. They want Zimmerman arrested yesterday. What about a proper, full blown investigation, that leads to a justice (conviction at trial or exoneration)? That is the goal here. Whether he is arrested a week from now, or a week ago doesn't matter. If there is probable cause to believe he committed a crime, he'll be arrested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Being from the Central Florida area, and a law enforcement officer, maybe I can shed some light onto the procedures/protocols in place here. In cases such as these, where self defense is claimed as justification to shoot someone it is protocol to send the investigation to the State Attorney's Office to let them investigate. These cases are typically sent to the grand jury by the SAO for the indictment. This is the exact procedure that has been followed in this case. This case has been blown into the public consciousness for one reason, and one reason only: race. Incidents like this happen all too often, and they are handled in the above manner. We, as the public, rarely hear about them because it isn't of interest to the media unless they can get a frenzy whipped up. The manner in which it is being investigated is the way it should be - heads are rolling now because the public doesn't understand the process. They want Zimmerman arrested yesterday. What about a proper, full blown investigation, that leads to a justice (conviction at trial or exoneration)? That is the goal here. Whether he is arrested a week from now, or a week ago doesn't matter. If there is probable cause to believe he committed a crime, he'll be arrested. Thanks for the detailed info and explanation. Good to know. Maybe you can shed some more light on the following: Why did the DOJ and FBI have to get involved? It seemed like they were forced to get involve in order to spark the investigation? IIRC, originally Chief Lee said there were no grounds to charge Zimmerman and the investigation was done. What part of that is incorrect? Why isn't shooting Martin after directly disobeying the 911 operator enough probable cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I think closing this thread might be be a good idea, there is already a great discussion on PPP. If a moderator chooses to do so, I would not feel insulted as the gist of what happened, timeline and facts were presented and that has brought me and others up to speed I am sure. Thanks everyone! Per your request. Here's the link to the PPP thread also.... http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/143585-trayvon-martin-case/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 [This is an automated response] This subject matter is being currently being discussed or has already been discussed in a previous thread. Please consider using the "search" function before starting new topics. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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