Acantha Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I am sorry guys, to say college performance has zero to do with NFL production is the most absurd, far fetched statement I have EVER seen on this board...and i have seen a bunch. So tell me guys, how are draft boards created? How was Marcell Dareus determined to be a #2 overall pick. In the words of Chris Carter, C'mon man! There's a small, but important, disconnect here. These arguments are reading like they are being made about performance, but are specifically saying "stats". Those are two different things. I agree that big picture, stats mean nothing. Performance is different, and if anyone says that college performance has no bearing on NFL potential, they are out of their minds.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I am sorry guys, to say college performance has zero to do with NFL production is the most absurd, far fetched statement I have EVER seen on this board...and i have seen a bunch. So tell me guys, how are draft boards created? How was Marcell Dareus determined to be a #2 overall pick. :lol::lol: No one said college performance had zero to do with it and no one would. You cannot even read and understand English. I said, and tgreg said, stats have zero correlation. Good example though. Marcell Dareus was not chosen #2 overall, he was #3. And clearly it was because of his college stats. He had 37 tackles and 6.5 sacks in his career. There's a small, but important, disconnect here. These arguments are reading like they are being made about performance, but are specifically saying "stats". Those are two different things. I agree that big picture, stats mean nothing. Performance is different, and if anyone says that college performance has no bearing on NFL potential, they are out of their minds. Of course, because no one did say that. Except Garranimal. Isn't Andrew Luck's college performance exactly what has everyone spooging all over themselves about? Actually, no.
MDH Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Well how can you scream sample size on one hand and college stats don't count on the other. All that is left is opinion.....if you throw out every valid piece of evidence, what is left? College stats most certainly count - in determining what type of college player he was. He was an outstanding college player, nobody is disputing this. If it was as easy as looking at college stats to determine how well they'll transition to the pros they could fire all the college scouts, not bother looking at thousands of hours of game film (by guys who know what they're looking for) and just hire you to look up their stats at ESPN.com But it's not that easy, that's why the roadside is filled with guys who were monsters in college but, for whatever reasons, couldn't get the same results in the pros.
FLFan Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I was really hoping this would all go away when the Bills did not draft Tebow, but yet it continues on. What is the zen like devotion some people feel for this guy all about? I just do not get it. I much more readily see, on the other hand, the flaws in his game that do not translate to the success in the NFL, and the fact that he inspires devotion and scorn in equally committed amounts. Whether he can play QB in the NFL or not, we will eventually find out. More importantly, Denver will find out of they can actually win with a guy so thorughly devisive. My guess on both counts is no, which is why I am glad he is not here. Unfortunately though, it looks like the Buffalo Chapter of the Tebow fan club is alive and well and intent on converting the rest of us. Personally, I could not care less since he is Denver's problem (or savior) and not ours.
CosmicBills Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I was really hoping this would all go away when the Bills did not draft Tebow, but yet it continues on. What is the zen like devotion some people feel for this guy all about? I just do not get it. I much more readily see, on the other hand, the flaws in his game that do not translate to the success in the NFL, and the fact that he inspires devotion and scorn in equally committed amounts. Whether he can play QB in the NFL or not, we will eventually find out. More importantly, Denver will find out of they can actually win with a guy so thorughly devisive. My guess on both counts is no, which is why I am glad he is not here. Unfortunately though, it looks like the Buffalo Chapter of the Tebow fan club is alive and well and intent on converting the rest of us. Personally, I could not care less since he is Denver's problem (or savior) and not ours. I don't get it either. I don't really care one way or the other if Tebow becomes a good NFL QB. He seems like a nice guy, so that's swell I guess. And the controversy around him (inspired by his very own supporters moreso than his detractors) makes him somewhat compelling to watch. But from everything I can see, he just doesn't have the tools to succeed in the NFL at that position. I could be wrong, and frankly, I don't really care since Tebow isn't wearing a Bills uniform. But his fans seem to take everything so personal. The ONLY thing that makes sense to me is that its somehow tied into the whole religious angle. Like somehow if you state your opinion that Tebow isn't a very good NFL QB that translates to not liking him because he's a evangelical. That's just nonsense. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. But the people who are his most outspoken fans claim there's a conspiracy against the guy. Why? Because he's white and likes Jesus? Guess what? There are millions of white guys who like Jesus -- not all of them can throw a football. That doesn't mean there's some sort of anti-christian conspiracy in the NFL keeping these guys down. If anything, the NFL is one of the most christian leagues in the history of American sports. Every game ends with a group of players kneeling in prayer. But yeah, the NFL is keeping Tebow down because he supports JC.
KD in CA Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I was really hoping this would all go away when the Bills did not draft Tebow, but yet it continues on. What is the zen like devotion some people feel for this guy all about? I just do not get it. I much more readily see, on the other hand, the flaws in his game that do not translate to the success in the NFL, and the fact that he inspires devotion and scorn in equally committed amounts. Whether he can play QB in the NFL or not, we will eventually find out. More importantly, Denver will find out of they can actually win with a guy so thorughly devisive. My guess on both counts is no, which is why I am glad he is not here. Unfortunately though, it looks like the Buffalo Chapter of the Tebow fan club is alive and well and intent on converting the rest of us. Personally, I could not care less since he is Denver's problem (or savior) and not ours. The Tebow lovers are just getting warmed up. Wait till Denver squeaks by a pathetic Miami team, then we'll really hear it. And by the way -- how pathetic is the Dolphin franchise? They are actually honoring Tebow before the game. Wow.
DrDawkinstein Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) I watched the kid play through his entire college career and saw him do some amazing things against very good defenses that had multiple players go on to the pros. He is arguably the greatest college player ever. I understand his mechanics are outside the norm. We all get that. I just think the kid deserves a chance to play, given his prior accomplishments. And I believe he can succeed. That's all, nothing more. No delusional feelings like you guys want to pin on me. Look at the few posts above this one (KD, tgreg, MDF..) and you still wonder why his supporters take criticism personally?!? Probably because Tebow discussions usually turn into the supporters being condescended to, and made to sound like lunatics, just because we think the kid might work out. YOU guys are the ones that talk about "devotion", "converting", and "savior". YOU guys are the ones talking about his faith... still. Im not a religious fanatic, nor do I think there is any conspiracy against Tebow. I have no idea why his detractors have to always take it there, nor do I understand why his supporters get insulted. Maybe someone could explain that?... Edited October 12, 2011 by DrDareustein
Captain Hindsight Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 All I know is Tommy Timbow is player. Get that kid in the game!
KD in CA Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Look at the few posts above this one (KD, tgreg, MDF..) and you still wonder why his supporters take criticism personally?!? Probably because Tebow discussions usually turn into the supporters being condescended to, and made to sound like lunatics, just because we think the kid might work out. Actually, I was just poking fun at his devotees. And the Dolphins. But maybe the reason Tebow lovers are mocked is because of the nature of the way he is gushed over. Just look at the title of this thread -- I don't recall anyone starting threads titled NGATA!!!!!! or NUGENT!!!!!! the first time those guys got into a game. Comparing him to Brady and Manning on the basis of a few relief appearances? I mean seriously.....it's laughably overboard. And of course people remember the MONTHS of 24x7 non-stop worship prior to the 2010 draft. Bottom line is, if you guys act like Justin Beeber fans over this guy, you should expect to be treated as such.
CosmicBills Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 ...Look at the few posts above this one (KD, tgreg, MDF..) and you still wonder why his supporters take criticism personally?!? Probably because Tebow discussions usually turn into the supporters being condescended to, and made to sound like lunatics, just because we think the kid might work out. No one has any problem with someone wanting Tebow to succeed. The problem comes when rational fans want to discuss their opinions on Tebow (pros and cons) and the Tebow Cult comes barreling out of the bushes shouting down anyone who offers any opinion other than "Tebow is God". They're out there. Just look at some of the posts in this thread (two posters in particular NOT named DrDareustein). The truth is, no one knows for sure whether or not he's going to live up to the ridiculous hype. But we'll soon find out. Actually, I was just poking fun at his devotees. And the Dolphins. But maybe the reason Tebow lovers are mocked is because of the nature of the way he is gushed over. Just look at the title of this thread -- I don't recall anyone starting threads titled NGATA!!!!!! or NUGENT!!!!!! the first time those guys got into a game. Comparing him to Brady and Manning on the basis of a few relief appearances? I mean seriously.....it's laughably overboard. And of course people remember the MONTHS of 24x7 non-stop worship prior to the 2010 draft. Bottom line is, if you guys act like Justin Beeber fans over this guy, you should expect to be treated as such. Okay, KD said it better than I did.
FLFan Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I watched the kid play through his entire college career and saw him do some amazing things against very good defenses that had multiple players go on to the pros. He is arguably the greatest college player ever. I understand his mechanics are outside the norm. We all get that. I just think the kid deserves a chance to play, given his prior accomplishments. And I believe he can succeed. That's all, nothing more. No delusional feelings like you guys want to pin on me. Look at the few posts above this one (KD, tgreg, MDF..) and you still wonder why his supporters take criticism personally?!? Probably because Tebow discussions usually turn into the supporters being condescended to, and made to sound like lunatics, just because we think the kid might work out. YOU guys are the ones that talk about "devotion", "converting", and "savior". YOU guys are the ones talking about his faith... still. Im not a religious fanatic, nor do I think there is any conspiracy against Tebow. I have no idea why his detractors have to always take it there, nor do I understand why his supporters get insulted. Maybe someone could explain that?... All good points. For my part, it is not that I think he does not deserve a chance - of course he does. My points are: - I doubt he has the skills, based on what I have seen at Florida and so far in the NFL. - He is a very devisive figure, whatever the reasons, and I would be shocked if that did not translate to issues in the locker room. - I really am tired of and confused about the arguement on a Bills message board. By that I mean, when it was a possibility he would be drafted by us, sure, but he does not play here. I do not get the fanatical "devotion" some people have to shouting out about Tebow at every opportunity, nor do I get the same bevaior on the negative side. (and this is not directed at anyone in particular, just a general observation) It is, you must admit, very different that any discussion on any other players in its longevity and persistance. I suspect Treg is right, the religious thing is polarizing, but I don't really know. - While he may well succeed, or he may well fail, since he is not a Bill, I really do not care, but I am glad he is not here. I would rather have Fitzpatrick. Yes, I did use the words "devotion", "convert" and "savior". Perhaps I was trying to be a little too cute, but honestly I do not know how else to describe this phenomenon. I certainly did not mean to insult anyone and I am sorry if you or anyone else took it that way.
mob16151 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) I don't really care if Tebow succeeds or fails. I just have a hard time evisioning him having success. But for fun, lets do a pro's and con's list. Pro's. Won a lot in college. Great Scrambler Has great intangibles Nice guy Con's. Played in a one read spread at florida. Wierd,wierd mechanics Mechanics, there so bad I had to list them twice. Running style lends it's self to injuries Has trouble under center Can't read a defence(Should be able to improve that though) Theres a chance you might have to re design your whole offense to make him succesful. There you go, make your own decisions. Edited October 12, 2011 by mob16151
The Senator Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Here's a thought - let's all hold fire and revisit Tebow's performance in a month or so. If statistics prove typical TSW behavior sustainable, half the folks in this thread will thump their chests triumphantly while the other half quietly slither away from the subject.
mob16151 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Here's a thought - let's all hold fire and revisit Tebow's performance in a month or so. If statistics prove typical TSW behavior sustainable, half the folks in this thread will thump their chests triumphantly while the other half quietly slither away from the subject. Works for me.
Chef Jim Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 todays QB rating.... Orton - 21.0 Tebow - 101.7 at Denvers press conference, you know the first question will be, who's your QB starter next week....Fox should just answer TEBOW !! This mean nothing. Hmm, didn't the Bills trade for a guy based on one game once??
papazoid Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Dolphins get box-office boost with Tebow starting for Broncos: On Tuesday, more than 2,000 tickets were sold on the secondary market through sites like Stubhub.com, the South Florida Sun Sentinel reported on Tuesday, citing a source. That equaled the previous six weeks of sales for the game. The Dolphins had anticipated Tebow's visit even before he was named the Broncos' starter on Tuesday. Back in August, general manager Mike Dee announced the team's curious decision to host a reunion of the University of Florida 2009 national championship team during halftime of the Dolphins-Broncos tilt. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8230fa1a/article/dolphins-get-boxoffice-boost-with-tebow-starting-for-broncos?module=HP11_headline_stack
Garranimal Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 No one has any problem with someone wanting Tebow to succeed. The problem comes when rational fans want to discuss their opinions on Tebow (pros and cons) and the Tebow Cult comes barreling out of the bushes shouting down anyone who offers any opinion other than "Tebow is God". They're out there. Just look at some of the posts in this thread (two posters in particular NOT named DrDareustein). The truth is, no one knows for sure whether or not he's going to live up to the ridiculous hype. But we'll soon find out. Okay, KD said it better than I did. Ok Mr. "i am here to pass judement" dude, please show me where...oh where...other than the one post where i said specifically...."in my opinion" have i not used factual data? Where? Oh, i know, you have no argument so you reduce the conversation to insults and condescending remarks. I am not treating Tebow like Justin Beiber, i am supporting my arguments with facts and data....and it clearly irks the crap out of you and one other not named DrDaruestein. :lol::lol: No one said college performance had zero to do with it and no one would. You cannot even read and understand English. I said, and tgreg said, stats have zero correlation. Good example though. Marcell Dareus was not chosen #2 overall, he was #3. And clearly it was because of his college stats. He had 37 tackles and 6.5 sacks in his career. Of course, because no one did say that. Except Garranimal. Actually, no. Ok....now you are just bring completely obtuse. Statistics are the numerical product of performance.....i can understand english, apparently you don't understand what statistics actually mean.....statistics are the byproduct of performance. If a car goes 0-60 in 5 seconds, the result is a numerical product of the car's performance. And stop being so frickin' condescending. If you are so frustrated, stop posting.
CosmicBills Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Ok Mr. "i am here to pass judement" dude, please show me where...oh where...other than the one post where i said specifically...."in my opinion" have i not used factual data? Where? Oh, i know, you have no argument so you reduce the conversation to insults and condescending remarks. I am not treating Tebow like Justin Beiber, i am supporting my arguments with facts and data....and it clearly irks the crap out of you and one other not named DrDaruestein. You also believe stats are all you need to look at when evaluating a player. We've already determined you're a black hole of intelligence, but you're fun. So I like keeping you around. Funny thing is, I'm not even anti-Tebow and you're all ranting and raving like I kicked your sister. Or Justin Beiber.
DrDawkinstein Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 No offense ever taken, guys. Appreciate the responses. Only time will tell, and it will definitely be an interesting story line to watch! (Since the Bills winning is bound to get boring, LOL) Actually, I was just poking fun at his devotees. And the Dolphins. But maybe the reason Tebow lovers are mocked is because of the nature of the way he is gushed over. Just look at the title of this thread -- I don't recall anyone starting threads titled NGATA!!!!!! or NUGENT!!!!!! the first time those guys got into a game. Comparing him to Brady and Manning on the basis of a few relief appearances? I mean seriously.....it's laughably overboard. And of course people remember the MONTHS of 24x7 non-stop worship prior to the 2010 draft. Bottom line is, if you guys act like Justin Beeber fans over this guy, you should expect to be treated as such. No one has any problem with someone wanting Tebow to succeed. The problem comes when rational fans want to discuss their opinions on Tebow (pros and cons) and the Tebow Cult comes barreling out of the bushes shouting down anyone who offers any opinion other than "Tebow is God". They're out there. Just look at some of the posts in this thread (two posters in particular NOT named DrDareustein). The truth is, no one knows for sure whether or not he's going to live up to the ridiculous hype. But we'll soon find out. Okay, KD said it better than I did. All good points. For my part, it is not that I think he does not deserve a chance - of course he does. My points are: - I doubt he has the skills, based on what I have seen at Florida and so far in the NFL. - He is a very devisive figure, whatever the reasons, and I would be shocked if that did not translate to issues in the locker room. - I really am tired of and confused about the arguement on a Bills message board. By that I mean, when it was a possibility he would be drafted by us, sure, but he does not play here. I do not get the fanatical "devotion" some people have to shouting out about Tebow at every opportunity, nor do I get the same bevaior on the negative side. (and this is not directed at anyone in particular, just a general observation) It is, you must admit, very different that any discussion on any other players in its longevity and persistance. I suspect Treg is right, the religious thing is polarizing, but I don't really know. - While he may well succeed, or he may well fail, since he is not a Bill, I really do not care, but I am glad he is not here. I would rather have Fitzpatrick. Yes, I did use the words "devotion", "convert" and "savior". Perhaps I was trying to be a little too cute, but honestly I do not know how else to describe this phenomenon. I certainly did not mean to insult anyone and I am sorry if you or anyone else took it that way.
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