San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 There will be no counter-offer. Take it or leave it. Why would you say that, Doc? What if the Bills increased their offer to Bell by $100K for this season and he agreed? This is business, it shouldn't be personal.
Doc Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) Why would you say that, Doc? What if the Bills increased their offer to Bell by $100K for this season and he agreed? This is business, it shouldn't be personal. I wasn't making it personal. The Bills offered him a contract, he never counter-offered, and instead decided to test the market. The market didn't want to pay him what he mistakenly thought he was worth, so he's got the option to take the Bills' only offer, or go elsewhere. The time for negotiating has long since passed. The problem for him is the Cards, Steelers, and Eagles have moved-on, leaving the Packers, Skins, and Bills. Two of those teams have guys who were dtafted high and are being counted-on to be their LT's (Pack have Bulaga and the Skins have Williams). The Bills have a 2nd year, former 4th round pick slated to start at LT. Edited April 2, 2012 by Doc
Kelly the Dog Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I wasn't making it personal. The Bills offered him a contract, he never counter-offered, and instead decided to test the market. The market didn't want to pay him what he mistakenly thought he was worth, so he's got the option to take the Bills' only offer, or go elsewhere. The time for negotiating has long since passed. The problem for him is the Cards, Steelers, and Eagles have moved-on, leaving the Packers, Skins, and Bills. Two of those teams have guys who were dtafted high and are being counted-on to be their LT's (Pack have Bulaga and the Skins have Williams). The Bills have a 2nd year, former 4th round pick slated to start at LT. I think that would be foolish on the Bills part. Gailey just said the Bills and Bell's agent have been talking all along. Bell wants as much as he can get and the Bills want him but don't want to overpay. Other teams want him still but don't want to overpay. The Bills offer you're talking about was their first offer. They have an internal number, the ceiling for how much they are willing to pay him and not a penny more, and that is almost for sure more than their first offer. Offer him that ceiling number and see if he takes it, if he doesn't, say what they did to Meachem and his agent. Take another offer and good luck to you.
Doc Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I think that would be foolish on the Bills part. Gailey just said the Bills and Bell's agent have been talking all along. Bell wants as much as he can get and the Bills want him but don't want to overpay. Other teams want him still but don't want to overpay. The Bills offer you're talking about was their first offer. They have an internal number, the ceiling for how much they are willing to pay him and not a penny more, and that is almost for sure more than their first offer. Offer him that ceiling number and see if he takes it, if he doesn't, say what they did to Meachem and his agent. Take another offer and good luck to you. I get the sense that after what happened with Clabo last year, and with what happened with Meachem this year, they're not interested in being the one to drive up the price for another team again. And I don't blame them. They made Bell an offer that reflected what they thought he was worth, he decided to test the market, and apparently didn't find much better. Now it's up to him to decide what he wants to do.
ny33 Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I get the sense that after what happened with Clabo last year, and with what happened with Meachem this year, they're not interested in being the one to drive up the price for another team again. And I don't blame them. They made Bell an offer that reflected what they thought he was worth, he decided to test the market, and apparently didn't find much better. Now it's up to him to decide what he wants to do. Buffalo needs to be extremely careful with the numbers if they plan to re-sign Bell. I agree that we should not just offer him a take-it-or-leave-it deal giving the maximum the team is willing to pay. Given the fact that we have some good, young players like Levitre and Byrd coming off of their contracts next year, saving a few extra hundred thousand on contracts like Bell's is critical.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I get the sense that after what happened with Clabo last year, and with what happened with Meachem this year, they're not interested in being the one to drive up the price for another team again. And I don't blame them. They made Bell an offer that reflected what they thought he was worth, he decided to test the market, and apparently didn't find much better. Now it's up to him to decide what he wants to do. That may be true, Doc, I do think it's a bit of a different situation. Clabo was more of a "name" I think. Contract negotiations always do have that personal element. There's a bit of face to be saved. Bell didn't take their offer, but he didn't "pull a Whitner" either. He finished out the season in a decent fashion and has conducted his business quietly in a civilized fashion. I don't think he needs to accept the offer they have on the table, he does need to counter, however to show he is serious about coming back and not just trying to drive up his price for another team. Then the Bills can go up a bit or maybe tuck in some incentives or give on a point that matters to him, to help him "save face" and strike a deal.
Doc Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Buffalo needs to be extremely careful with the numbers if they plan to re-sign Bell. I agree that we should not just offer him a take-it-or-leave-it deal giving the maximum the team is willing to pay. Given the fact that we have some good, young players like Levitre and Byrd coming off of their contracts next year, saving a few extra hundred thousand on contracts like Bell's is critical. Saving a few hundred thousand isn't the issue; it's the principle. Bell isn't in a position to demand more. That may be true, Doc, I do think it's a bit of a different situation. Clabo was more of a "name" I think. Contract negotiations always do have that personal element. There's a bit of face to be saved. Bell didn't take their offer, but he didn't "pull a Whitner" either. He finished out the season in a decent fashion and has conducted his business quietly in a civilized fashion. I don't think he needs to accept the offer they have on the table, he does need to counter, however to show he is serious about coming back and not just trying to drive up his price for another team. Then the Bills can go up a bit or maybe tuck in some incentives or give on a point that matters to him, to help him "save face" and strike a deal. True, Clabo was a name, and I'd bet they gave him an offer and countered with him several times, until they realized they were being played. I think with Meachem, they realized he was just a #2 and said "this is what he's worth and all we're going to offer," and Buddy telling him to take SD's offer without countering to me corroborates that. Bell isn't a "name" per se, and should be treated like Meachem. I'd be dismayed to learn the Bills out-bid other teams for a guy who the Bills developed and who has had a half of a good season in an otherwise injury-marred career.
The Senator Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) I get the sense that after what happened with Clabo last year, and with what happened with Meachem this year, they're not interested in being the one to drive up the price for another team again. And I don't blame them. They made Bell an offer that reflected what they thought he was worth, he decided to test the market, and apparently didn't find much better. Now it's up to him to decide what he wants to do. I dunno, Doc - I tend to think if anyone was gonna offer Bell more money than the Bills, one of the four teams he visited would have tried to close the deal w/out letting him leave town. In general, I tend to be one of the bigger pricks on TSW when it comes to not giving in to guys trying to bilk the Bills for more cash - but in this case, I really think that if Buffalo can strike a reasonable, one-year (possibly with an option for more), incentive-laden deal that motivates Bell to stay healthy and creates some desire to get on the field, get some reps, and prove his worth once and for all, then Bills need to get the deal done. And one of the things you don't want to do - in any negotiation - is have one side walk away from the table feeeling like they've been totally defeated. I just don't see how that creates any motivation for a player to want to excel and do his best in the coming season. I also don't have any real animosity toward Demetrius here - his contract was up, and the guy wanted to test his value in free agency. Maybe he overestimated his worth, maybe - as a young player - he got bad advice from a greedy, incompetent agent, maybe a little of both. Now he knows. I'm ready to welcome him back into the Bills' fold with open arms. We need more than just Hairston and Levitre at LT - and beyond USC's Matt Kalil (who will likely go in the top 5), all the other LTs are a reach at #10 and have huge 'bust-potential' (IMHO). In any case, there is NO left tackle in this year's draft (beyond Kalil) that you can 'plug in' as an immediate starter this September. Best to get the deal done with Bell so we can go to OTAs and camp with an experienced (and even competent, when he's playing well and not hurt) left tackle who knows our players, coaches, system, etc., and then go BPA at the #10 spot in the draft (which would be Stanford RG/C and future perennial All Pro, David DeCastro). Again, JMO... GO BILLSSS!!!! 19 and 0 baby!!!!! . Edited April 2, 2012 by The Senator
eball Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I dunno, Doc - I tend to think if anyone was gonna offer Bell more money than the Bills, one of the four teams he visited would have tried to close the deal w/out letting him leave town. In general, I tend to be one of the bigger pricks on TSW when it comes to not giving in to guys trying to bilk the Bills for more cash - but in this case, I really think that if Buffalo can strike a reasonable, one-year (possibly with an option for more), incentive-laden deal that motivates Bell to stay healthy and creates some desire to get on the field, get some reps, and prove his worth once and for all, then Bills need to get the deal done. And one of the things you don't want to do - in any negotiation - is have one side walk away from the table feeeling like they've been totally defeated. I just don't see how that creates any motivation for a player to want to excel and do his best in the coming season. I also don't have any real animosity toward Demetrius here - his contract was up, and the guy wanted to test his value in free agency. Maybe he overestimated his worth, maybe - as a young player - he got bad advice from a greedy, incompetent agent, maybe a little of both. Now he knows. I'm ready to welcome him back into the Bills' fold with open arms. We need more than just Hairston and Levitre at LT - and beyond USC's Matt Kalil (who will likely go in the top 5), all the other LTs are a reach at #10 and have huge 'bust-potential' (IMHO). In any case, there is NO left tackle in this year's draft (beyond Kalil) that you can 'plug in' as an immediate starter this September. Best to get the deal done with Bell so we can go to OTAs and camp with an experienced (and even competent, when he's playing well and not hurt) left tackle who knows our players, coaches, system, etc., and then go BPA at the #10 spot in the draft (which would be Stanford RG/C and future perennial All Pro, David DeCastro). Again, JMO... Don't have an opinion one way or the other on DeCastro, but otherwise I agree with this post wholeheartedly. Bringing Bell in on an incentive-laden one year deal lets him prove (to the Bills or someone else) he deserves the big contract, and gives Buffalo incredible flexibility with regard to the draft.
PromoTheRobot Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 If the Bills did sign Bell it would be the first year I can recall where we signed every major FA we had. I don't think we lost anyone to another team this year. When has that ever happened? PTR
San Jose Bills Fan Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Buffalo needs to be extremely careful with the numbers if they plan to re-sign Bell. I agree that we should not just offer him a take-it-or-leave-it deal giving the maximum the team is willing to pay. Given the fact that we have some good, young players like Levitre and Byrd coming off of their contracts next year, saving a few extra hundred thousand on contracts like Bell's is critical. Wholeheartedly disagree with this. This is a poverty mentality IMO. In the next 1-3 years the Bills will have several substantial contracts coming off the books. There will be plenty of cap space to re-sign their good young players. The main factor will be how proactive the team is and how receptive the players are to an early extension, IMO. Contract negotiations always do have that personal element. There's a bit of face to be saved. Bell didn't take their offer, but he didn't "pull a Whitner" either. He finished out the season in a decent fashion and has conducted his business quietly in a civilized fashion. I don't think he needs to accept the offer they have on the table, he does need to counter, however to show he is serious about coming back and not just trying to drive up his price for another team. Then the Bills can go up a bit or maybe tuck in some incentives or give on a point that matters to him, to help him "save face" and strike a deal. Agreed. As Kelly and Hopeful pointed out, the Bills made an offer and Bell's camp never countered. There's probably some wiggle room there and the cost/benefit of paying a bit more than the initial offer to retain Bell would be immense, IMO. His familiarity with the system and his teammates, the flexibility it give the Bills in the draft… even the possibility that he gives himself and the team an injury-free, high-quality season… there is so much upside to a reasonable re-signing. This team has been establishing a reputation under Nix of being fair and square and straight forward. They should avoid doing anything that is, or could be construed as being penny-pinching, petty, vindictive, or penny-wise and pound-foolish.
Doc Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I dunno, Doc - I tend to think if anyone was gonna offer Bell more money than the Bills, one of the four teams he visited would have tried to close the deal w/out letting him leave town. In general, I tend to be one of the bigger pricks on TSW when it comes to not giving in to guys trying to bilk the Bills for more cash - but in this case, I really think that if Buffalo can strike a reasonable, one-year (possibly with an option for more), incentive-laden deal that motivates Bell to stay healthy and creates some desire to get on the field, get some reps, and prove his worth once and for all, then Bills need to get the deal done. And one of the things you don't want to do - in any negotiation - is have one side walk away from the table feeeling like they've been totally defeated. I just don't see how that creates any motivation for a player to want to excel and do his best in the coming season. I'm sure that Bell wants a short-term (1 or 2 year) deal so as to showcase himself for a bigger contract. So that should be the motivation. And I'm sure the Bills have made it low on guarantees and heavily incentive-laden. If he's quibbling over a couple hundred thousand..
shibuya Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 just remember in the last 3 years bell has missed 15 out of 48 games with injuries.... that's almost 1/3 of games.. Not very reliable at all. yes we should resign him, but at a price where he is still keep-able as depth if we can draft a better option. Our OL depth at OT is a major concern
Peter Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) Somewhat D. Bell related: Karl Malone's other son verbally commits to LSU He also is an offensive lineman. I wonder if Malone treated this son better than Demetrius. Edited April 2, 2012 by Peter
JPS Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I think if the Bills rehire Bell, they'd be doing him a favor, not the other way around. Maybe him doing 9 reps at 225 and getting injured every year is indicative of his lack of commitment to football. I don't question his talent. I question his cajones. If he comes back, fine. If not. So what.
The Senator Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 (edited) I'm sure that Bell wants a short-term (1 or 2 year) deal so as to showcase himself for a bigger contract. So that should be the motivation. And I'm sure the Bills have made it low on guarantees and heavily incentive-laden. If he's quibbling over a couple hundred thousand.. ...then, given the Bills' cap room and the size of their payroll, a couple hundred thousand is like throwing a deck chair off the Titanic, ferchrisssakes...just get the deal done! . Edited April 2, 2012 by The Senator
Rubes Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I'm sure that Bell wants a short-term (1 or 2 year) deal so as to showcase himself for a bigger contract. So that should be the motivation. And I'm sure the Bills have made it low on guarantees and heavily incentive-laden. If he's quibbling over a couple hundred thousand.. I guess I don't understand why the Bills would want that. They get a (relatively) cheap LT for one or maybe two seasons, and if things go well, then he likely leaves in free agency for the big bucks. Is it worth it to buy just one or two seasons from the guy? Wouldn't we prefer a longer term solution?
dpberr Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 The agent really backed his client into a corner with his or her delusions of grandeur of Bell's market. It's advantage front office right now.
Kelly the Dog Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 I'm sure that Bell wants a short-term (1 or 2 year) deal so as to showcase himself for a bigger contract. So that should be the motivation. And I'm sure the Bills have made it low on guarantees and heavily incentive-laden. If he's quibbling over a couple hundred thousand.. The fact is we have no idea what the Bills offered him, and we have no idea if what they offered him was anywhere close to what they actually think he is worth. The only thing I know of was one report that said the offer from the Bills may have been for the league minimum, which could have been an insult to Bell and his agent. I don't know if that is true but how can you really say the Bills should not up their offer when you have no idea what the offer was. As far as the Clabo and Meachem situations were, i really don't think the Bills were played at all, at least not in a disingenuous way. Especially with Meachem. The Bills courted him, made him a very good offer. Thought he was going to sign. And then at the last minute, the Chargers came in and offered him a #1 WR role in for a little more money. It was a no brainer for him to take. He wasnt "playing" the Bills, that is what FA is all about. Clabo was a little different story but ultimately, the Falcons upped their deal at the last minute and he signed it. If they didn't, he would have signed with the Bills. Everyone following it knew he wanted the Falcons more than the Bills because of his personal situation, but he was negotiating. I guess I don't understand why the Bills would want that. They get a (relatively) cheap LT for one or maybe two seasons, and if things go well, then he likely leaves in free agency for the big bucks. Is it worth it to buy just one or two seasons from the guy? Wouldn't we prefer a longer term solution? The Bills have most of the pieces to make a playoff run this year. Gailey said he thinks Hairston needs one for year to develop. Nix said that there are a 2-3 LTs in the draft that he thinks could be starters in the NFL after one year of development. The team could sign Bell to a one year deal for not a lot of money, and let the two guys develop behind him for a year. If he gets hurt, Hairston comes in. If he plays well and is a stud and healthy, they try to sign him long term, franchise him for one more year, or let one of the two guys they have had in the system and are now ready play. To me, this is the best way to do it.
mrags Posted April 2, 2012 Posted April 2, 2012 Only problem with that Kelly is that Bell would have to agree to a on year deal. I'm assuming that is exactly what he DOESNT want. I'm pretty sure he didn't wake up on FA morning and say "all I need is a one year deal to showcase my tale ts that I've already showcased for 3 years, so I can finally get that big payday and a 5 year deal" he wants a longterm deal now. And that is what is most likely holding him up at this point. Either take the Bills 1-2 year lowball deal or take another teams 1-2 year lowball deal. My guess is he's waiting for the Bills to get desperate and offer more money. If that's the case it will probably be after draft time. Buddy will either fet one of his 2-3 LTs that he thinks can start and if he does t get them via draft I'd expect a larger offer in Bells lap asap.
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