Goodell lowers boom on the Saints

[Marv's Neighbor]

Everyone's acting like Bounties are something new....They're not!

 

Buddy Ryan used to pull that crap back when he was with the Eagles. At that time, everyone would absolutely deny everything, and life would go on. That was before Goodell was in charge.

 

Thank God this sh*t storm didn't open up while Gregggg was here! We know the BILLS were "mentioned" in this. Maybe too much water had gone over Niagara Falls to revisit whatever happened in Buffalo when Gregggg was here?

 

The cheaters will always try to rise to the level of the prize, and the NFL has plenty of prize money rolling around.

[apuszczalowski]

How does the suspension work? Is the coach completely cut off from any team activities at all, or just game days?

The Radio this morning said that as of April 1st, Payton will not be allowed into team Facilities for one calender year. Basically, its a year away from coaching without pay, then he can come back to his old job.

 

I kind of think that it is a little harsh considering what Spygate got the Patriots. What the Pats did was in violation of the rules of the game and is cheating. What the Saints (and most NFL teams have done) did was unethical and morally wrong, they weren't cheating by doing it. It definitly warranted discipline especially if they were aware of it and told to take care of it themselves first 2 years ago. But this is mostly the NFL trying to save its own backside from potential lawsuits from injured players who may have been seriously hurt in a game and may have had a bounty placed on them by a team. This is there damage control to try and show that they weren't condoning it and hopefully won't be sued

 

Everyone's acting like Bounties are something new....They're not!

 

Buddy Ryan used to pull that crap back when he was with the Eagles. At that time, everyone would absolutely deny everything, and life would go on. That was before Goodell was in charge.

Thank God this sh*t storm didn't open up while Gregggg was here! We know the BILLS were "mentioned" in this. Maybe too much water had gone over Niagara Falls to revisit whatever happened in Buffalo when Gregggg was here?

 

The cheaters will always try to rise to the level of the prize, and the NFL has plenty of prize money rolling around.

I think it was more about it happening before in a time where there was as much "inside info" available to the fans and media through the internet. Years ago too, it was just accepted that Football was a viscious game that guys got hurt playing, but now that players are getting alot bigger and stronger (and using fancier new steriods), the injuries are getting worse and they want to clean up this to market the game to families and children

[NoSaint]

Starts April 1st

 

Right but the end date is vague. Will he be good the day after the last game? Miss the senior bowl? Miss the combine? Miss free agency starting if it's April 1- April 1?

 

The Radio this morning said that as of April 1st, Payton will not be allowed into team Facilities for one calender year. Basically, its a year away from coaching without pay, then he can come back to his old job.

 

I kind of think that it is a little harsh considering what Spygate got the Patriots. What the Pats did was in violation of the rules of the game and is cheating. What the Saints (and most NFL teams have done) did was unethical and morally wrong, they weren't cheating by doing it. It definitly warranted discipline especially if they were aware of it and told to take care of it themselves first 2 years ago. But this is mostly the NFL trying to save its own backside from potential lawsuits from injured players who may have been seriously hurt in a game and may have had a bounty placed on them by a team. This is there damage control to try and show that they weren't condoning it and hopefully won't be sued

 

 

I think it was more about it happening before in a time where there was as much "inside info" available to the fans and media through the internet. Years ago too, it was just accepted that Football was a viscious game that guys got hurt playing, but now that players are getting alot bigger and stronger (and using fancier new steriods), the injuries are getting worse and they want to clean up this to market the game to families and children

 

Ouch. Calendar year is huge. That cuts him off from building the roster for the following year too.

[Turbosrrgood]

Per a league source, Sean Payton has been suspended for the full year.

 

Gregg Williams has been suspended indefinitely.

 

Mickey Loomis has been suspended for eight game.

 

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/21/goodell-lowers-boom-on-the-saints/

 

Ridiculously excessive IMO, and is certain to be appealed. A one year suspension should be given to Williams, maybe a game or two to Payton, unless they can prove he was complicit in the whole thing. I am sure this practice was very widespread until now, it's being blown out of proportion.

[Beerball]

Ridiculously excessive IMO, and is certain to be appealed. A one year suspension should be given to Williams, maybe a game or two to Payton, unless they can prove he was complicit in the whole thing. I am sure this practice was very widespread until now, it's being blown out of proportion.

How complicit was he? How about an email that the NFL has that was sent to Payton by someone the league notified teams to stay away from? What if that email included the words "tell Williams I'll put $5,000 on Rogers".

 

How complicit was he? Up to his eyeballs.

 

The practice is/was widespread. What wasn't widespread was teams sanctioning the act and denying it numerous times to the league office.

 

IMO this isn't just about bountygate either. Payton's refusal to cut ties with someone who defrauded the league, his role in a drug investigation...all this went into determining the penalty whether explicitly or implicitly.

[LeviF]

but, everyone in the "snitches get stitches" crowd

At least they don't hold the same opinion that Dr. Dre holds...

 

"So listen to the play-by-play, day-by-day

Rollin' in my '4 with 16 switches.

And got sounds for the bi***es,

Clockin' all the riches,

Got the hollow points for the snitches."

[NoSaint]

How complicit was he? How about an email that the NFL has that was sent to Payton by someone the league notified teams to stay away from? What if that email included the words "tell Williams I'll put $5,000 on Rogers".

 

How complicit was he? Up to his eyeballs.

 

The practice is/was widespread. What wasn't widespread was teams sanctioning the act and denying it numerous times to the league office.

 

IMO this isn't just about bountygate either. Payton's refusal to cut ties with someone who defrauded the league, his role in a drug investigation...all this went into determining the penalty whether explicitly or implicitly.

 

Beyond that - even some of the media access issues the staff has had with the league. It's been a pretty constant thumbing of his nose towards goodell - ornstein, prescriptions, bounties... It all seems to fit the theme.

 

Peyton has butted heads with goodell on a lot of issues and I think that frosty relationship has something to do with the full year. Fair or not, I dont know.

[HalftimeAdjustment]

Ridiculously excessive IMO, and is certain to be appealed. A one year suspension should be given to Williams, maybe a game or two to Payton, unless they can prove he was complicit in the whole thing. I am sure this practice was very widespread until now, it's being blown out of proportion.

 

They have proven he was complicit, since there was an email notifying him about the bounties years after the NFL first asked the team to investigate and stop such a system.

 

Payton's suspension is as much about these two things as anything else:

- When asked about the system, he lied to the NFL about it.

- When notified that the NFL would be investigating, he instructed his assistance to "get their ducks in a row"... interpreted as instructing them to hide it.

 

As such, the NFL deemed Payton to be the most responsible party other than Williams, and as head coach responsible for cooperating with the NFL commissioner's office.

 

Had this been just a bounty system with no complications, or had it gone on for 3 years THEN been discovered, penalties would be MUCH less severe. The fact that the team was investigated, successfully concealed the rule violations, then continued them for 2 more years, causes a great magnification of the penalty. At any corporation, this kind of behavior (failing to cooperate with a security investigation) would result in immediate termination of anyone in the organization who conducted themselves in this manner. The magnitude of the original offense (the bounties) is not what determined this penalty.

[Adam]

Everyone's acting like Bounties are something new....They're not!

 

Buddy Ryan used to pull that crap back when he was with the Eagles. At that time, everyone would absolutely deny everything, and life would go on. That was before Goodell was in charge.

 

Thank God this sh*t storm didn't open up while Gregggg was here! We know the BILLS were "mentioned" in this. Maybe too much water had gone over Niagara Falls to revisit whatever happened in Buffalo when Gregggg was here?

 

The cheaters will always try to rise to the level of the prize, and the NFL has plenty of prize money rolling around.

Never thought of that. I guess its all good, since it was going on before

[Mr. WEO]

Ridiculously excessive IMO, and is certain to be appealed. A one year suspension should be given to Williams, maybe a game or two to Payton, unless they can prove he was complicit in the whole thing. I am sure this practice was very widespread until now, it's being blown out of proportion.

You should read the paper more. Or TV maybe.

 

Payton is dirty dirty.

[MikeSpeed]

I'm going to get blasted here but what the heck...

I was taught as far back as pee wee football you hit the guy as hard as you can and try and knock him from the game. I didn't get paid $$ for it but playing more was my reward. If you take out the fact that a person is being hurt (which is part of football) how is this different from paying a little leaguer to hit a home run?

 

That said, the Saints were told to stop and didn't. That to me is the bigger issue and why they should be penalized. But does the time fit the crime? I think it’s either too much for the Saints or too little for the Paties. Both were caught cheating. The Pat's was a clear case of stealing for an advantage. The Saints was a case of motivating their players to hit harder, and let's face it they try to knock each other out anyway, money or not. The only other issue that might make the Saints case deeper is that they are circumventing the salary cap by giving their players bonuses.

 

I won't be able to respond until tomorrow because I'm at work, but feel free to blast away.

[papazoid]

I'm going to get blasted here but what the heck...

I was taught as far back as pee wee football you hit the guy as hard as you can and try and knock him from the game. I didn't get paid $$ for it but playing more was my reward. If you take out the fact that a person is being hurt (which is part of football) how is this different from paying a little leaguer to hit a home run?

 

That said, the Saints were told to stop and didn't. That to me is the bigger issue and why they should be penalized. But does the time fit the crime? I think it’s either too much for the Saints or too little for the Paties. Both were caught cheating. The Pat's was a clear case of stealing for an advantage. The Saints was a case of motivating their players to hit harder, and let's face it they try to knock each other out anyway, money or not. The only other issue that might make the Saints case deeper is that they are circumventing the salary cap by giving their players bonuses.

 

I won't be able to respond until tomorrow because I'm at work, but feel free to blast away.

 

 

the new england crime is not even close to the severity of the saints crime...

 

the saints intent was to INJURE fellow players....the term "cart-offs" is disgustingly egregious.

 

as far as new england goes, the "stealing of signs" is perfectly legal, i can write down your signals or get a lip reader. the "video recording" of stealing signs is what is illegal. it's a stupid rule. they even allow photographs of alignments during the game to be reviewed by the players during the game.

[Mr. WEO]

I'm going to get blasted here but what the heck...

I was taught as far back as pee wee football you hit the guy as hard as you can and try and knock him from the game. I didn't get paid $$ for it but playing more was my reward. If you take out the fact that a person is being hurt (which is part of football) how is this different from paying a little leaguer to hit a home run?

 

That said, the Saints were told to stop and didn't. That to me is the bigger issue and why they should be penalized. But does the time fit the crime? I think it’s either too much for the Saints or too little for the Paties. Both were caught cheating. The Pat's was a clear case of stealing for an advantage. The Saints was a case of motivating their players to hit harder, and let's face it they try to knock each other out anyway, money or not. The only other issue that might make the Saints case deeper is that they are circumventing the salary cap by giving their players bonuses.

 

I won't be able to respond until tomorrow because I'm at work, but feel free to blast away.

No it wasn't. If you saw the hits they put on Favre in the NFCC game, or the blindside hit they put on Warner after an int--again, in a playoff game and knew they were being paid extra for those hits, that would be OK with you?

 

You don't think taking the other team's future HOF QB out of a playoff game isn't for "advantage"?? This has nothing to do with a salary cap, bra.

[MikeSpeed]

No it wasn't. If you saw the hits they put on Favre in the NFCC game, or the blindside hit they put on Warner after an int--again, in a playoff game and knew they were being paid extra for those hits, that would be OK with you?

 

You don't think taking the other team's future HOF QB out of a playoff game isn't for "advantage"?? This has nothing to do with a salary cap, bra.

Let me answer that with a question. Do you not want Bills player to try and knock out Brady when we play them or do you just want them to lightly place him on the ground? My point is they are trying to knock the guys out even without getting paid to do so.

Edited March 22, 2012 by MikeSpeed

[KD in CA]

Let me answer that with a question. Do you not want Bills player to try and knock out Brady when we play them or do you just want them to lightly place him on the ground? My point is they are trying to knock the guys out even without getting paid to do so.

 

Of course, but you are forgetting they play this sport and generate these revenues in the public domain, and the public will react very negatively if they believe that bounties and attempts to injure are the accepted norm in the sport. This is about managing and protecting the NFL's image because image = dollars.

 

 

It's just like gambling; why are athletes banned for betting on games they aren't playing in (or betting on their own team)? Same answer: it's the perception of wrongdoing that is harmful

[NoSaint]

Of course, but you are forgetting they play this sport and generate these revenues in the public domain, and the public will react very negatively if they believe that bounties and attempts to injure are the accepted norm in the sport. This is about managing and protecting the NFL's image because image = dollars.

 

 

It's just like gambling; why are athletes banned for betting on games they aren't playing in (or betting on their own team)? Same answer: it's the perception of wrongdoing that is harmful

but thats very different than saying its horrifying theyd have a pool.

 

No it wasn't. If you saw the hits they put on Favre in the NFCC game, or the blindside hit they put on Warner after an int--again, in a playoff game and knew they were being paid extra for those hits, that would be OK with you?

 

You don't think taking the other team's future HOF QB out of a playoff game isn't for "advantage"?? This has nothing to do with a salary cap, bra.

well, i think the warner hit was clean, so no problem there.

 

i also dont think the favre hits were near as absurd as most, and frankly had little to do with the money.

 

 

I think the program boils down to hitting hard, and hitting often. i dont think it was about hitting dirty. players flagged in that game got absolutely killed on the sidelines and pulled from the game for some snaps. how you beat favre is hit him every chance you can get a hand on him. same thing with brady. i dont think any player went low, or late, or dirty to try and get the money, so hit away.

 

also - it seems the terms cartoff and kill shot equated to missing a play, and not returning to the game. It wasnt about carts and ambulances. it was just locker room language that probably was never expected to see the light of day.

 

im not condoning the program, but i think it needs to be discussed in context of what it really was.

 

 

ultimately i think the SP punishment has a lot to do with him telling goodell to screw himself on bannishing ornstein, on his media policies, on his drug investigation, and now on the bounty program. Goodell has had SP in his crosshairs for awhile and he finally got to nail him. of course the lawsuit potentially didnt hurt in being able to justify a full season.

Edited March 22, 2012 by NoSaint

[Mr. WEO]

Let me answer that with a question. Do you not want Bills player to try and knock out Brady when we play them or do you just want them to lightly place him on the ground? My point is they are trying to knock the guys out even without getting paid to do so.

There is a spectrum of appropriate play in between those 2 extremes. I saw Fitz and many other QBs take good solid hits last year. I would venture that none of the guys was specifically trying to injure the QB. I never got that impression. But you did?

 

 

Without a bounty on him, specifically, I don't think Warner gets this shot.

 

 

And without a bounty on him, specifically, Favre (the toughest QB ever), doesn't look like this after the NFCC game (a game where the Saints were penalized twice for roughing and fined). Obviously the Saints knew that was a recently fractured ankle...

 

http://backseatfan.com/2010/02/brett-favre-injury-pictures/

 

To answer your question, if the Bills are only trying to "take Brady out", then they are being poorly coached and have been stupendously unsuccessful at that objective. In other words, they are wasting their time. Brady has been taken out once, despite every team in the league having a chance every Sunday to do so for more than a decade.

 

The Giants handled Brady effectively without "taking him out"--they did the normal way. I'd like the Bills to learn how to do this too.

[RyanC883]

Let me answer that with a question. Do you not want Bills player to try and knock out Brady when we play them or do you just want them to lightly place him on the ground? My point is they are trying to knock the guys out even without getting paid to do so.

 

 

No, I don't want Bills players trying to knock anyone out. That's what wusses do. Oh, we can't beat them if they have Brady. Nonsense. I want our guys to hit Brady as hard and cleanly as possible as many times as possible so that every time he steps up in the pocket he hears the rush--whether it's coming or not. But knock him out, no. I want to beat the best. And the Saints hits were "cheap shots."

 

There is a spectrum of appropriate play in between those 2 extremes. I saw Fitz and many other QBs take good solid hits last year. I would venture that none of the guys was specifically trying to injure the QB. I never got that impression. But you did?

 

 

Without a bounty on him, specifically, I don't think Warner gets this shot.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=pC1T1tAbA4s

 

And without a bounty on him, specifically, Favre (the toughest QB ever), doesn't look like this after the NFCC game (a game where the Saints were penalized twice for roughing and fined). Obviously the Saints knew that was a recently fractured ankle...

 

http://backseatfan.com/2010/02/brett-favre-injury-pictures/

 

To answer your question, if the Bills are only trying to "take Brady out", then they are being poorly coached and have been stupendously unsuccessful at that objective. In other words, they are wasting their time. Brady has been taken out once, despite every team in the league having a chance every Sunday to do so for more than a decade.

 

The Giants handled Brady effectively without "taking him out"--they did the normal way. I'd like the Bills to learn how to do this too.

 

Well said!

Edited March 22, 2012 by RyanC883

[NoSaint]

There is a spectrum of appropriate play in between those 2 extremes. I saw Fitz and many other QBs take good solid hits last year. I would venture that none of the guys was specifically trying to injure the QB. I never got that impression. But you did?

 

 

Without a bounty on him, specifically, I don't think Warner gets this shot.

 

youtube.com/watch?v=pC1T1tAbA4s

 

And without a bounty on him, specifically, Favre (the toughest QB ever), doesn't look like this after the NFCC game (a game where the Saints were penalized twice for roughing and fined). Obviously the Saints knew that was a recently fractured ankle...

 

http://backseatfan.com/2010/02/brett-favre-injury-pictures/

 

To answer your question, if the Bills are only trying to "take Brady out", then they are being poorly coached and have been stupendously unsuccessful at that objective. In other words, they are wasting their time. Brady has been taken out once, despite every team in the league having a chance every Sunday to do so for more than a decade.

 

The Giants handled Brady effectively without "taking him out"--they did the normal way. I'd like the Bills to learn how to do this too.

again, i think the instruction was if you get to the qb (or anyone else) - hit him. the team was being coached to be physical. remember reggie running with authority that game after leading the team out with his bat? they had ronnie lott deliver the speach the night before. the city was a mad house, and the intensity and electricity in the dome was unreal. i think that team went out and wanted to out physical the opponent. i dont think they went out and tried to make dirty hits, or intentionally take someone out with major injuries. it was about being the most physical team there, and the bounties i think were a way to help hammer that home with a chance to have some swagger in the locker room the next day when you got your cash for big plays. i dont think for one moment that bobby mccray made that hit for a paycheck - he made it because it was an interception return and warner was trying to get in the play and he wasnt going to let anyone tackle his guy- he lined up his block and executed.

 

any fine was much higher than the "bounties" and players were ripped for penalties. i dont think dirty play was ever the goal. so yea - i want the bills to hit brady as hard as they can every time they get to him. if it injures him, so be it. i know the money makes it sound bad, but i dont think its near the offense that many have made it out to be.

[spartacus]

again, i think the instruction was if you get to the qb (or anyone else) - hit him. the team was being coached to be physical. remember reggie running with authority that game after leading the team out with his bat? they had ronnie lott deliver the speach the night before. the city was a mad house, and the intensity and electricity in the dome was unreal. i think that team went out and wanted to out physical the opponent. i dont think they went out and tried to make dirty hits, or intentionally take someone out with major injuries. it was about being the most physical team there, and the bounties i think were a way to help hammer that home with a chance to have some swagger in the locker room the next day when you got your cash for big plays. i dont think for one moment that bobby mccray made that hit for a paycheck - he made it because it was an interception return and warner was trying to get in the play and he wasnt going to let anyone tackle his guy- he lined up his block and executed.

 

any fine was much higher than the "bounties" and players were ripped for penalties. i dont think dirty play was ever the goal. so yea - i want the bills to hit brady as hard as they can every time they get to him. if it injures him, so be it. i know the money makes it sound bad, but i dont think its near the offense that many have made it out to be.

 

What's a Saints homer doing on a Bills board?