NoSaint Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 What's a Saints homer doing on a Bills board? born and raised bills fan, but have had saints season tickets for a few years since relocating down here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Rome wasn't built in a day......nor was their coliseum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) born and raised bills fan, but have had saints season tickets for a few years since relocating down here Lol now we discover reason for the lame atttempt to defend Greggo and the Saints. sorry bud, those tickets lost some value, that's how it goes when your coaches pay players to have the opponents carted off the field. Edited March 23, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Rome wasn't built in a day......nor was their coliseum. Wasn't burnt in a day either. It took like six or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Im really starting to notice that people reliant on the nfl like pft who is nbc, espn talking heads, sports illustrated are lining up closely behind the commissioner but when you get outside those people fed by the nfl - the opinions are much wider. heres an atlantic article on it for some of the flipside opinion. again a disclaimer that i think punishment is definitely deserved, but i do think the SP punishment went to far. i think itll be interesting to see the player punishments (remember, they have the nflpa and a cba backing them, which SP does not). http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/03/the-nfls-punishment-of-the-saints-is-harsh-nonsensical-and-hypocritical/254936/ A great many moralizers in the press have jumped this issue, moving quickly to what they believe is the high ground, in the process denying the nature of football. About two or three times a game a referee throws a flag for what he deems "unnecessary roughness." This tells us all anyone needs to know about football: It is a game of necessary roughness, on each and every play. And if the hit is clean, it is utter hypocrisy to pretend that it makes a difference how much a player was paid for making it. In investigating bounties, NFL Commissioner Roger Gooddell and his staff should be concerned with only one thing: Was the hit clean or dirty? Everything else is just football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Im really starting to notice that people reliant on the nfl like pft who is nbc, espn talking heads, sports illustrated are lining up closely behind the commissioner but when you get outside those people fed by the nfl - the opinions are much wider. heres an atlantic article on it for some of the flipside opinion. again a disclaimer that i think punishment is definitely deserved, but i do think the SP punishment went to far. i think itll be interesting to see the player punishments (remember, they have the nflpa and a cba backing them, which SP does not). http://www.theatlant...ritical/254936/ The NFL is an enormous business as you and everyone else knows well. It's also by far the most popular and profitable team sport in the country. This issue, I assume you would agree, is much more about image, lawsuits, and business than it is about players getting hurt more because of bounties. Personally, I have no problem at all with the NFL coming down this hard on a team and individuals to protect the league and preserve its sullied image with the public, especially when learning of what the Saints as a team and as individuals did when caught. It's downright smart of the NFL to do this. The only real crime is the fact they didn't more severely punish the Patriots for the cheating that also sullied the NFL image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) The NFL is an enormous business as you and everyone else knows well. It's also by far the most popular and profitable team sport in the country. This issue, I assume you would agree, is much more about image, lawsuits, and business than it is about players getting hurt more because of bounties. Personally, I have no problem at all with the NFL coming down this hard on a team and individuals to protect the league and preserve its sullied image with the public, especially when learning of what the Saints as a team and as individuals did when caught. It's downright smart of the NFL to do this. The only real crime is the fact they didn't more severely punish the Patriots for the cheating that also sullied the NFL image. i agree, but i also am amazed that this is where the nfl is putting its foot down and suspending a head coach for the first time - yet alone for a full year. not only will he miss the season but the combine, and free agency... totally unprecedented for a crime that i dont think is likewise unprecedented... as you said, it doesnt seem to line up with previous rulings. i know people are saying that this is about safety, but i agree with you that much of it is about image, liability, and ill add roger goodell making it clear that when he talks you listen and act. in that regard he has not been consistent. Lol now we discover reason for the lame atttempt to defend Greggo and the Saints. sorry bud, those tickets lost some value, that's how it goes when your coaches pay players to have the opponents carted off the field. ive never sold a single set - in fact, i typically buy extras so im down for the value to drop. i share that info as ive seen every game for years, and was IN the dome for all the games being discussed here (ie 2009 playoffs). you know, so i could see bobby mccray get torn a new one by SP for getting a flag hitting favre. once again, the investigation found the payments for "cartoffs" really equated to "had to leave the field" and "kill shots" were "didnt return to the game" but thats ok. remind me of one player carted off in the last 3 seasons again? the only ones i can think of are tracy porter and courtney roby - both saints.... i guess the coaches never actually paid players for being on carts, eh? Edited March 23, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 i agree, but i also am amazed that this is where the nfl is putting its foot down and suspending a head coach for the first time - yet alone for a full year. not only will he miss the season but the combine, and free agency... totally unprecedented for a crime that i dont think is likewise unprecedented... as you said, it doesnt seem to line up with previous rulings. i know people are saying that this is about safety, but i agree with you that much of it is about image, liability, and ill add roger goodell making it clear that when he talks you listen and act. in that regard he has not been consistent. I think bounties exist on a lot of teams. I don't think it's a great idea to give out bonuses for knocking guys out of the game but I don't think what the Saints actually did was so much worse than what other teams did. And I also think that what the Patriots did was worse as far as cheating goes (although I really don't think they gained much of anything out of it). BUT, that said, the image of bounties in the public eye and the black eye it gives the league IMO is far worse than what the Patsies did. So the punishment fitting the crime is the crime against the image being abused, not a crime against the rulebook or the actual harm to teams or players. That is why I think the foot came down so hard, and why I am not really outraged by it. The league is also facing a lot of lawsuits both now and in the future over concussions and head injuries. The Saints were unlucky I suppose that this happened this year instead of, say, five years ago. But the NFL, again, cannot in any way, at this time period, appear to allow its players to be injured by bounties, even if it never happens. They just can't. Scumbag lawyers would use that against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) @NS, You Never had a reason to sell until now! Lol Hey bud, Instead of whining on here in a Quixotic crusade to get us to sympathize with your bogus position, how about putting those tix up on EBay, establishing how much value they've lost, and suing Saints for it? Lol about only chance you have at recovering it Edited March 23, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 I think bounties exist on a lot of teams. I don't think it's a great idea to give out bonuses for knocking guys out of the game but I don't think what the Saints actually did was so much worse than what other teams did. And I also think that what the Patriots did was worse as far as cheating goes (although I really don't think they gained much of anything out of it). BUT, that said, the image of bounties in the public eye and the black eye it gives the league IMO is far worse than what the Patsies did. So the punishment fitting the crime is the crime against the image being abused, not a crime against the rulebook or the actual harm to teams or players. That is why I think the foot came down so hard, and why I am not really outraged by it. The league is also facing a lot of lawsuits both now and in the future over concussions and head injuries. The Saints were unlucky I suppose that this happened this year instead of, say, five years ago. But the NFL, again, cannot in any way, at this time period, appear to allow its players to be injured by bounties, even if it never happens. They just can't. Scumbag lawyers would use that against them. i just think its silly given you could go back 2-3 years ago when the ravens (and specifically suggs) admitted to bounties on the steelers, after a season ending injury to mendenhall (with hines ward also called out by name), and so many other teams/players admitting it to give a suspension the likes of which have never been seen. like i said, i generally agree with the punishment but i think the SP aspect had a lot to do with personal issues between he and goodell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Another interesting article from a non-nfl-affiliated publication (sorry ive been hearing a lot about this and reading a lot of varied opinions) http://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2012/03/22/roger-goodell-nfl-are-not-serious-about-player-safety-and-its-because-of-money/ The reality is that the bounty system in New Orleans is not an isolated incident. Many teams are guilty of encouraging their players to take opponents out of the game. Just a few months ago, in fact, several New York Giants admitted that they were coached to target the San Francisco 49ers’ Kyle Williams because of his concussion history. NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, in addressing the recent punishments levied against the Saints, offered the league’s official position: “We are all accountable and responsible for player health and safety and the integrity of the game. We will not tolerate conduct or a culture that undermines those priorities.” In case you were wondering, the Giants faced no league discipline for their actions, and that hypocrisy is startling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Another interesting article from a non-nfl-affiliated publication (sorry ive been hearing a lot about this and reading a lot of varied opinions) http://www.forbes.co...cause-of-money/ That's a stupid article, IMO, and I usually like the articles on sports that I read on Forbes. The writer doesn't actually believe that Goodell should do what he is suggesting, does he? And he doesn't say the penalties were unfair. He's basically suggesting that the NFL should just willingly attempt to sabotage their image and try to go out of business to prove to the public that there have been other bounties. And that is just stupid. This penalty should end the blatant paid bounty for injury practice in the NFL for awhile (I imagine it will return in some form after awhile). Players will still be as violent as they can be and try to knock other players out of the game using different incentives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 That's a stupid article, IMO, and I usually like the articles on sports that I read on Forbes. The writer doesn't actually believe that Goodell should do what he is suggesting, does he? And he doesn't say the penalties were unfair. He's basically suggesting that the NFL should just willingly attempt to sabotage their image and try to go out of business to prove to the public that there have been other bounties. And that is just stupid. This penalty should end the blatant paid bounty for injury practice in the NFL for awhile (I imagine it will return in some form after awhile). Players will still be as violent as they can be and try to knock other players out of the game using different incentives. I didn't love the writing but I think his point was essentially instead of taking a serious look at something they don't want to admit, they are going to make an example and sweep the rest under the carpet. I get why, but I also get why some people are annoyed with how the issues been handled with regards to consistency. I just was giving a handful of non-nfl sources as I think the takes have been very different from people that aren't either paid by the nfl, or reliant on them to get paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 The Saints were being investigated and informed of as much for a long time. Smart money is that you quit while you are ahead. Few people get a heads up the way these guys did. Their arrogance caught up with them. You can't expose yourself like that and not be prepared for the worst when you lie and continue your bounty program when you know you are being watched. They have only themselves to blame. Greggo is the definition of arrogance. He has some Rick Martel in him for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Adams Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Ridiculously excessive IMO, and is certain to be appealed. A one year suspension should be given to Williams, maybe a game or two to Payton, unless they can prove he was complicit in the whole thing. I am sure this practice was very widespread until now, it's being blown out of proportion. I'd be willing to lower it to 8 games for Peyton -- on the condition that Williams is banned from the NFL for life. I think the NFL got it right, and these moves will send the RIGHT message to others who might consider such abhorrent acts in the future. BA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 Senate to hold hearing on bounties: WASHINGTON -- The Senate wants to grill the NFL about bounties. And the NBA, NHL, NCAA and Major League Baseball are invited, too. Sen. Dick Durbin is setting up a Judiciary Committee hearing about bounties in professional football and other major sports in the wake of news that New Orleans Saints players received extra cash for hits that hurt particular opponents. The assistant Senate majority leader, an Illinois Democrat, said Thursday he wants to examine whether federal law should make such bounty systems a crime. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7722853/new-orleans-saints-senator-dick-durbin-sets-hearing-bounties-nfl complete waste of taxpayer money. shouldn't they be working on creating jobs and balancing the budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 complete waste of taxpayer money. shouldn't they be working on creating jobs and balancing the budget. Total waste. They got their priorities out of whack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 23, 2012 Author Share Posted March 23, 2012 taking this in another direction..... apparently Warren Sapp has outed the original "snitch" as Jeremy Shockey.....which PFT says is wrong.... but, everyone in the "snitches get stitches" crowd...like warren sapp and roddy white, just to name a few.....are just as bad as Greg Williams, Shawn Peyton and all the players who participated in the bounty. players worried about their own safety is a joke.... wether shockey did it or not, he's screwed, he's a free agent and will not be picked up. he is toxic. i hope shockey sues sapp for lost wages, defamation...etc.. Shockey wants action from league: Shockey has vehemently denied being the whistleblower. And now he wants something to be done about the potential damage to his prospects for getting another job. “Is the league going to come down on their own people when someone does something so wrong and outrageous?” Shockey told Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports. “There should be a standard for punishment, like getting suspended or fined or losing your job. If I say something about officials, the league fines me.” Shockey said he has been contacted by multiple lawyers about possibly filing suit, and that he has heard nothing from the league. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/23/shockey-wants-action-from-league/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Shockey wants action from league: Shockey has vehemently denied being the whistleblower. And now he wants something to be done about the potential damage to his prospects for getting another job. “Is the league going to come down on their own people when someone does something so wrong and outrageous?” Shockey told Jason Cole of Yahoo! Sports. “There should be a standard for punishment, like getting suspended or fined or losing your job. If I say something about officials, the league fines me.” Shockey said he has been contacted by multiple lawyers about possibly filing suit, and that he has heard nothing from the league. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/23/shockey-wants-action-from-league/ I'd say he's right about it whether he turned them in or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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