....lybob Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) At the end of the day this is what happened: A kid wanted some candy during the NBA All-Star halftime. He went out and got it and then was chased down and killed by a man over 100 pounds bigger with a gun. Trayvon had no chance Why on earth does that at all !@#$ing matter? I understand Tom's concern since he weighs a couple hundred pounds more than most people but looking past his obvious bias in favor of fatties I'm going to shockingly agree with him- really why should we take into account things like size and such when figuring out whether use of lethal self-defense is reasonable or not- maybe we will start to see cases like this in Florida. 911 there's a man walking around the neighbor he looks dazed, he's acting weird, I think he's on drugs, oh my God he has something in his hand it looks like a weapon, I got to do something right now, bang, - Police come and ask what happened- This guy was menacing me with a weapon and yelling "what" real loud I felt threatened so I shot him- Sir the man was 95 and had a quad cane- Like I said a weapon- Sir the man was 70 years older than you are you really claiming self defense-Why on earth does that at all !@#$ing matter? Edited March 20, 2012 by ....lybob
DC Tom Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 I understand Tom's concern since he weighs a couple hundred pounds more than most people but looking past his obvious bias in favor of fatties I'm going to shockingly agree with him- really why should we take into account things like size and such when figuring out whether use of lethal self-defense is reasonable or not- maybe we will start to see cases like this in Florida. 911 there's a man walking around the neighbor he looks dazed, he's acting weird, I think he's on drugs, oh my God he has something in his hand it looks like a weapon, I got to do something right now, bang, - Police come and ask what happened- This guy was menacing me with a weapon and yelling "what" real loud I felt threatened so I shot him- Sir the man was 95 and had a quad cane- Like I said a weapon- Sir the man was 70 years older than you are you really claiming self defense-Why on earth does that at all !@#$ing matter? Thank you for our daily affirmation of your inner retard.
IDBillzFan Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 Trayvon had no chance. I always get a kick out of people who somehow get so caught up in a story like this that they constantly refer to the young victim by their first name as if they were childhood buddies.
Juror#8 Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 What facts? What do we actually know about this case? Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding so far goes something like this: Things we know: 1. Zimmerman pursued Martin against the instructions of the 911 operator. 2. Zimmerman was carrying a weapon. 3. During a confrontation/struggle, Zimmerman fired his weapon and killed Martin. Things we don't know: 1. Who started the confrontation/struggle (Odds are that Zimmerman did, but "odds are" doesn't get you **** in a trial). 2. (Similar to 1) Who, if anybody, was acting in self-defense. I think this is a travesty, but if I were a prosecutor I would not want this case showing up on my desk. All Zimmerman would have to show is that he reasonably believed he was in danger of serious injury. Any intrepid prosecutor should be glad to have this case and provide justice for his family given the facts. 1. Who started the struggle - the only one who knows that is Zimmerman (assuming that if there were eye-witnesses with substantive details it would have led to Zimmerman's arrest). The court, though, is obliged to draw inferences based on circumstantial data. a. The victim, by all accounts and in consideration of the 911 tape, was retreating what he felt was an escalating situation. Zimmerman, in consideration of the same data, wasn't going after Martin to ask him to stop by and play Madden. There is enough circumstantial data to suggest that Zimmerman had already escalated the matter by going against the police's admonitions. The reasonable person can infer that Zimmerman continuing that escalation in his confrontation with Martin. b. Juries are asked everyday to draw inferences based on an appraisal of presented data
....lybob Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 Thank you for our daily affirmation of your inner retard. you're the one saying that physical differences should not be taken into consideration when judging the reasonableness of lethal action taken in self-defense, I find that pretty moronic.
Juror#8 Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 #1 is the real crux of the issue, though...if you're allowed to claim to feel threatened by someone you're actively following, I can think of at least two people in Florida I could kill right now with impunity. Exactly. And that is where prosecutors will have to pin their hopes. Per the language: "reasonably believe it will prevent imminent death or great bodily harm." Was it, in fact, reasonable, for Zimmerman to believe that he was at great risk given that he followed a retreating entity? A GREAT defense counsel will argue that the risk didn't present itself until after Zimmerman caught up with Martin. Based on my review of some precedent in FL, those circumstances would present a case of first impression in Florida.
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 Plain in simple. If he was pursuring Martin, it is not self-defense. He is on the attack, right? Like I made the basketball reference between charging and a defensive foul. From what I read, the guy was "charging." Didn't the 911 dispatcher tell him to lay off? It should be on tape. How is this remotely a "stand your ground defense?" It was anything but, it seems to have been an agresssive attack. Self-defense is not a predatory move. I always get a kick out of people who somehow get so caught up in a story like this that they constantly refer to the young victim by their first name as if they were childhood buddies. Mark, people call me Eric. I don't know them and they don't know me from Adam... Well not poster Adam that is.
IDBillzFan Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 Mark, people call me Eric. I don't know them and they don't know me from Adam... Well not poster Adam that is. Yeah, that was exactly what I was talking about.
LeviF Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 The more I hear about this, the more I'm beginning to think that Zimmerman is !@#$ed. I didn't realize before that the evidence points to Martin actively retreating before the altercation.
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 911 there's a man walking around the neighbor he looks dazed, he's acting weird, I think he's on drugs, oh my God he has something in his hand it looks like a weapon like a Pats* fan, I got to do something right now, bang, - Police come and ask what happened- This guy was menacing me with a weapon and yelling "what" real loud wearing a Pats* jersey I felt threatened so I shot him- Sir the man was 95 and had a quad cane- Like I said a weapon- Sir the man was 70 years older than you are you really claiming self defense-Why on earth does that at all !@#$ing matter? Fixed.
KD in CA Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 I always get a kick out of people who somehow get so caught up in a story like this that they constantly refer to the young victim by their first name as if they were childhood buddies. It makes the outrage more believable. Just imagine if he had been engaged, like "groom to be" Sean Bell.
Rob's House Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 you're the one saying that physical differences should not be taken into consideration when judging the reasonableness of lethal action taken in self-defense, I find that pretty moronic. FWIW I know a guy who goes about 5'9" 165 lb who I'm pretty sure could beat the brakes off all of us if he felt so inclined.
Rob's House Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 Trayvon had no chance. He was born a pauper to a pawn on a Christmas day
LeviF Posted March 20, 2012 Posted March 20, 2012 He was born a pauper to a pawn on a Christmas day Is that NYT article really only 16 or 17 years old?
DaveinElma Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Al Sharpton (predictably) and his Nation Action Network will be there in FL on Thursday. Hundreds of blacks are killed by fellow blacks everyday and yet Al Sharpton doesn't have rallies at those killings.
Alaska Darin Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 He was born a pauper to a pawn on a Christmas day Trayvon liked his money. Made a lot they say...
Bigfatbillsfan Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Hundreds of blacks are killed by fellow blacks everyday and yet Al Sharpton doesn't have rallies at those killings. Are those killing also accompanied with cell phone calls where the killer is saying "!@#$in coons always get away"?
IDBillzFan Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Are those killing also accompanied with cell phone calls where the killer is saying "!@#$in coons always get away"? I hadn't heard that on this case, and it would kind of surprise me because Hispanics don't usually call black people coons.
Alaska Darin Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Are those killing also accompanied with cell phone calls where the killer is saying "!@#$in coons always get away"? You're a !@#$ing idiot.
GG Posted March 21, 2012 Posted March 21, 2012 Hundreds of blacks are killed by fellow blacks everyday and yet Al Sharpton doesn't have rallies at those killings. Like clockwork. just like Sharpton never misses the opportunity to stick his mug in a racially charged episode, you want to be sure to get your turn. What does your gold medallion look like?
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