Trayvon Martin Case

[Just Jack]

The picture thing is ridiculous. You're presuming that the media had ANY say in the pictures that were made available to them. The media didn't choose the same 3-5 pictures that are looping around this story; the parents did. The family didn't give the media carte blanche to go though their picture albums and I doubt that the media said "do you have a better, more sympathetic, picture?" when the family volunteered their mementos.

 

Maybe those are the pictures that are most endearing to their family. Maybe these are the pictures that the family cherishes most and that provides the most lasting memory and affection.

 

If it were you, what would you do when asked for a picture of your son or daughter? Would you provide a picture that you're indifferent to but that more accurately conveys your loved one's most recent size, weight, and general phenotypical characteristics or provide a picture that at least carries with it some modicum of poignance to you?

 

We've seen this before time and time again, where someone is involved in a crime, their facebook page pictures are changed from the standard "gangster look with the baseball cap, flashing cash, and maybe showing a gun" to "little Johnny singing in the church choir" picture. I'm not saying that Trayvon had those kinds of pictures, just hoping to add to your point about the family is involved in what pictures are released to the media.

[DC Tom]

If it were you, what would you do when asked for a picture of your son or daughter? Would you provide a picture that you're indifferent to but that more accurately conveys your loved one's most recent size, weight, and general phenotypical characteristics or provide a picture that at least carries with it some modicum of poignance to you?

 

 

It depends...but if it were the media asking, I'd probably provide them with a punch to the face and a "!@#$ off, vultures."

 

 

 

Just got a CNN email update, saying that "three out of four Americans" think Zimmerman should be arrested. Uh...oh, okay, forget the law, if 75% of people think he should be arrested, that's good enough for the justice system. Ensures a fair trial, too, before they hang him.

[/dev/null]

http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=16252

 

</crickets>

[B-Man]

Victor Davis Hanson

 

 

Beware of the Mob

March 25, 2012

 

 

FTA:

The initial moblike news (in this regard, Fox News’s Shepard Smith was especially culpable in whipping up frenzy when he did not have the evidence to support his allegations) that a white, Germanic-named vigilante ran down and executed a small African-American child (at least Mr. Martin seemed so from his adolescent photos in the press) eating candy while strolling in an exclusive gated community is not quite the entire story.

 

At least it has morphed into an account of an excitable, gun-carrying Hispanic neighborhood-watch volunteer, in a mixed community, prompting (?) a fist fight with an unarmed 17-year-old, 6’2” youth in a hoodie. Mr. Zimmerman apparently lost the struggle, and then pulled out a gun and fired — even as the narrative seemed to change with new information every day. The case is not helped by presidential editorializing that now, after the beer summit and Sandra Fluke, seems a gambit to divert attention from $4 a gallon gas and 8% plus unemployment (17% in Fresno County).

 

The Trayvon Martin tragedy is not over. We do not know all the facts; bad judgment, racism, and ill-intent may well have led to manslaughter or even second-degree murder or, then again, in theory, self-defense, but to speculate about any such charges without evidence is to become mob-like. My own view is that carrying a weapon requires greater forbearance, but I was not there and still have no idea what transpired. As I write this, the account will be out-of-date by tomorrow’s disclosures. What we are left with are no rules of national anguish: When ten African-Americans are murdered by other African-Americans in a single weekend, is it news or not news? When the occasional African-American murders a white person, as in a recent car-jacking, is it a sign of something the nation must note? When an Hispanic shoots an African-American, is it news to the degree he has a European name, but had he been Jorge Martinez with an Anglo mother, it would not have been news?

 

 

 

“We went from the beer summit to Trayvon Martin’s resemblance to the boy the president never had. In each case, facts did not matter. . . .

 

The role of a president is to rein in the mob, not to unleash it. The latter is what community organizers do; the former is what makes statesmen.

 

Yet on issue after issue — anti-terrorism, global warming, government ethics, and racial relations — a frenzied mob, egged on by the media and demagogues like Barack Obama, have almost stormed the jail, only to dissipate when met by either evidence, or the knowledge that the incarcerated was one of their own — as if they had never screamed and threatened in the first place.”

 

.

[Juror#8]

It depends...but if it were the media asking, I'd probably provide them with a punch to the face and a "!@#$ off, vultures."

 

 

 

Just got a CNN email update, saying that "three out of four Americans" think Zimmerman should be arrested. Uh...oh, okay, forget the law, if 75% of people think he should be arrested, that's good enough for the justice system. Ensures a fair trial, too, before they hang him.

 

The man definitely deserves a fair trial. If there is a trial, there needs to be a venue change. The local jury pool is probably tainted. I hope the judge closes off the proceedings and sequesters the jury and puts a gag order on everyone.

 

It will be a sad if Sharpton begins broadcasting his show from the courthouse doors.

 

This matter needs to be properly and fairly adjudicated.

[Just Jack]

This article just came out an hour ago....

 

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager

 

With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, authorities have revealed to the Orlando Sentinel.

...

Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession. Zimmerman called police and reported a suspicious person, describing Trayvon as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs. Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that. There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they're not sure what happened. Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words. Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose. Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police. Zimmerman began yelling for help. Several witnesses heard those cries, and there's been a dispute about from whom they came: Zimmerman or Trayvon. Lawyers for Trayvon's family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman. One witnesses, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

[Adam]

It depends...but if it were the media asking, I'd probably provide them with a punch to the face and a "!@#$ off, vultures."

 

 

 

Just got a CNN email update, saying that "three out of four Americans" think Zimmerman should be arrested. Uh...oh, okay, forget the law, if 75% of people think he should be arrested, that's good enough for the justice system. Ensures a fair trial, too, before they hang him.

Hey, it was good for everyone in the 1600's, do you think you are better than the people of Camelot?

[KD in CA]

There is a lot that still needs to be clarified about their confrontation. But because Zimmerman went against police admononition, and the confrontation occurred thereafter, I view him (at present) as presumptively at fault.

 

The picture thing is ridiculous. You're presuming that the media had ANY say in the pictures that were made available to them. The media didn't choose the same 3-5 pictures that are looping around this story; the parents did. The family didn't give the media carte blanche to go though their picture albums and I doubt that the media said "do you have a better, more sympathetic, picture?" when the family volunteered their mementos.

 

Maybe those are the pictures that are most endearing to their family. Maybe these are the pictures that the family cherishes most and that provides the most lasting memory and affection.

 

If it were you, what would you do when asked for a picture of your son or daughter? Would you provide a picture that you're indifferent to but that more accurately conveys your loved one's most recent size, weight, and general phenotypical characteristics or provide a picture that at least carries with it some modicum of poignance to you?

 

Y'all are fishing.

 

Sorry, but you are naive if you think the media isn't using every tool available to push the image of a young, baby-faced boy on one side and a hulking thug on the other. It's the same reason OJ's face was made darker on the cover of Newsweek and NBC rigged Suzuki Samurai rollover tests. More sensationalism = more eyeballs.

[ExiledInIllinois]

No matter how you slice it and what comes out... It sounds like Trayvon was the one being stalked. Shouldn't he be able to "stand his ground?"   Sounds like Zimmerman was advised not to engage Martin, he stalked him anyway... Then lost sight and Martin turned the tables on Zimmerman.  Wouldn't you do the same thing...?

 

How do you know some crazy guy like Gacy or Dahmer is not following you to grind you up and stick you in the freezer.The hunted became the hunter... Except in this case, the hunted had a bigger weapon (a gun).

 

Foul Martin, dead.

 

Foul Zimmerman, winner alive... Manslaughter.

Edited March 26, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois

[Bigfatbillsfan]

It depends...but if it were the media asking, I'd probably provide them with a punch to the face and a "!@#$ off, vultures."

 

 

 

Just got a CNN email update, saying that "three out of four Americans" think Zimmerman should be arrested. Uh...oh, okay, forget the law, if 75% of people think he should be arrested, that's good enough for the justice system. Ensures a fair trial, too, before they hang him.

 

Fine, three out of 4 Americans want him arrested. That doesn't mean it's going to happen. The more facts come to light, the less this looks like a killing based obviously on race. Would that have happened if the press hadn't run with it and the DoJ come in for an investigation? That's the point I've been trying to make in this thread.

 

However, I still don't see how this was self defense. If anything I think we could make a claim that Martin was the one that was standing his ground. Until more facts come out I don't think this was a self defense killing.

 

Z. claims that he was walking back to his SUV when M. attacked him from behind. If he was tackled from behind why was the back of his shirt wet? Sure it could have happened in the struggle but at first glance it doesn't make sense.

 

My guess would be that he confronted Martin, Martin attacked, he was shot during the struggle. And all this happened after Zimmermen was asked to stand down by a dispatcher.

[Joe Miner]

Fine, three out of 4 Americans want him arrested. That doesn't mean it's going to happen. The more facts come to light, the less this looks like a killing based obviously on race. Would that have happened if the press hadn't run with it and the DoJ come in for an investigation? That's the point I've been trying to make in this thread.

 

However, I still don't see how this was self defense. If anything I think we could make a claim that Martin was the one that was standing his ground. Until more facts come out I don't think this was a self defense killing.

 

Z. claims that he was walking back to his SUV when M. attacked him from behind. If he was tackled from behind why was the back of his shirt wet? Sure it could have happened in the struggle but at first glance it doesn't make sense.

 

My guess would be that he confronted Martin, Martin attacked, he was shot during the struggle. And all this happened after Zimmermen was asked to stand down by a dispatcher.

 

When did it ever look like a killing based on race?

[Bigfatbillsfan]

http://www.cdispatch.com/news/article.asp?aid=16252

 

</crickets>

 

I don't understand what the point of all of these posting are.

 

Were the three black males found and released by the police after claiming that they shot in self defense?

 

If this was a racial killing it should be prosecuted as a hate crime. Other than that it doesn't really have anything to do with the Treyvon Martin case.

 

One of the things that makes the Martin case so volatile is that it brings the question of the stand your ground law into question as well as how far should Zimmermin have gone with this.

[3rdnlng]

When did it ever look like a killing based on race?

 

It never did, regardless of the media's fanning of the flame, but if "race" wasn't involved how could the DoJ get involved?

[DC Tom]

Fine, three out of 4 Americans want him arrested. That doesn't mean it's going to happen.

 

Don't tell me, explain it to the !@#$s at CNN that ran the poll.

[Bigfatbillsfan]

When did it ever look like a killing based on race?

 

Where you awake about a week ago?

 

It never did, regardless of the media's fanning of the flame, but if "race" wasn't involved how could the DoJ get involved?

 

Because given the evidence that's exactly what it looked like. I don't think they can continue the investigation now that more of the facts of the case have come out.

 

This doesn't absolve the killing though. Z. was told by police to not follow M. and continued to do so.

[ExiledInIllinois]

<br />When did it ever look like a killing based on race?<br />

<br /><br /><br />

 

I am white, if I wad been walking through... I have no doubt that I wouldn't raise even a second look. That is the problem... I know friends that are AA that get hassled all the time... I will never fully understand. MAYBE, this day Martin finally said: "Not today!" Unfortunately, the harasser had a gun... Sad, he deserved to get his arse kicked for playing wannabee cop, harassing people that are doing no wrong. UNLESS, Trayvon WAS doing something wrong... Besides "looking suspicious."

[DC Tom]

Because given the evidence media hype that's exactly what it looked like. I don't think they can continue the investigation now that more of the facts of the case have come out.

 

This doesn't absolve the killing though. Z. was told by police to not follow M. and continued to do so.

 

You !@#$ing idiot. That's what people were trying to explain to you when you WERE claiming it was a hate crime.

[Joe Miner]

Where you awake about a week ago?

 

 

 

Because given the evidence that's exactly what it looked like. I don't think they can continue the investigation now that more of the facts of the case have come out.

 

This doesn't absolve the killing though. Z. was told by police to not follow M. and continued to do so.

 

When was there ever evidence this was racially motivated?

 

Or was that just a knee-jerk dumbass assumption you made based on reports that didn't contain all the facts?

 

<br /><br /><br />

 

I am white, if I wad been walking through... I have no doubt that I wouldn't raise even a second look. That is the problem... I know friends that are AA that get hassled all the time... I will never fully understand. MAYBE, this day Martin finally said: "Not today!" Unfortunately, the harasser had a gun... Sad, he deserved to get his arse kicked for playing wannabee cop, harassing people that are doing no wrong. UNLESS, Trayvon WAS doing something wrong... Besides "looking suspicious."

 

Case in point.

 

Dumbass.

[Bigfatbillsfan]

You !@#$ing idiot. That's what people were trying to explain to you when you WERE claiming it was a hate crime.

 

O.M.G. The point I was trying to make in my posts was that the DoJ should be involved at that point because it looked like an obvious racial killing. Regardless of whether or not it was media hype. Had this story never blown up they way it did the DoJ would never have gotten involved and this would have gone down as a racial killing rather than someone killing someone else because they were getting their ass kicked.

 

When was there ever evidence this was racially motivated?

 

Or was that just a knee-jerk dumbass assumption you made based on reports that didn't contain all the facts?

 

 

Case in point.

 

Dumbass.

 

Was I making them, or was the media reporting them? That's my point. A light was shined on the case and now we have more facts don't we.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Isn't this classic manslaughter in any state before the NRA started pushing this "arms race" of a law called "stand your ground?"<br /><br />Too bad Martin did not have a gun and shot first his stalker and harasser, couldn't he have applied applied that abortion of a law.<br /><br /><br />How would that have worked out for a black kid in FLA?<br /><br />Short first and ask questions later, the burden is not on the shooter one bit... Actually, the law has to give them the benefit of doubt.<br /><br />

<br />You !@#$ing idiot.  That's what people were trying to explain to you when you WERE claiming it was a hate crime.<br />

<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />I know for one with me... I never thought it a hate crime.  I do think that race alone raised suspicion.<br /><br />It takes two to tango.

 

Speaking of abortions... Can somebody tell me how to fix the mobile board!

Edited March 26, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois