Fezmid Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 No I'm not trying to get a rise, I'm expressing my opinion. Some folks can't handle an opinion that differs from theirs, but its their problem, not mine And why let facts get in the way of a good opinion, right?
Rob's House Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 I agree SameoldBills, Zimmerman probably doesn't deserve to spend the rest of his life in jail, but he does deserve some form of punishment. Even If Trayvon Martin was up to no good which hasn't been proven this is a 17 year old teenager who also didn't deserve to die at the hands of a neighborhood watch person. Kids make mistakes, this could just as easily been your kid or my kid... This is where I get irritated. This is not a legal argument. This is the semi-coherent ramblings of an ignoramous who thinks his argument has merit; enough merit in fact that he choses to share it with others. Maybe Zimmerman does or does not deserve punishment for something, but your post offers nothing to push that needle in one direction or the other. Whether Trayvon Martin deserved to die has nothing whatsoever to do with whether George Zimmerman committed a crime or deserves punishment. What would have been objectively reasonable at the time he pulled the trigger is the determining factor, and so far I have yet to see you or anyone else establish the necessary mens rea with anything other than baseless conjecture. And if you think GZ getting out of the car when the dispatcher said he didn't need him to follow TZ is dispositive of guilt, you're a !@#$ing tard. So is there more to your analsysis or is that it?
Rob's House Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 The question is really a simple one: can you follow someone, then chase them down until they are fearful for their life and feeling backed into a corner and ready to fight for their life, and then hide behind "stand your ground"? "Standing your ground" does not allow you to CHASE someone. It allows you to defend yourself. Trayvon Martin was just a punky kid on the way home from the store in the dark and the rain, alone and afraid. Zimmerman was a bully with a gun. Of course this being FloriDUH who knows - Zimmerman could get off, dump his wife and run off with Casey Anthony. They can move to Texas, hire hookers off Craiglist and then kill them with impunity if they don't feel they get all the service they pay for. Another ignorant moron sharing the idiocy with the rest of us. Thank you for reminding me that the rest of humanity has a median IQ of 100. First off, as I've stated countless times, this case has nothing to do with "stand your ground". Your assumption that TM was "chased" down is pure uncorroborated speculation on your point, you conveniently overlook the evidence that overwhelmingly suggests TM forewent the opportunity for safety in order to confront Zimmerman. Then you conclude your argument with you unsubstantiated assumption that TM was this frightened child in the night searching for safety reluctantly forced to confront and attack this strange man, when all the facts we do know seem to indicate otherwise. But while you've contributed nothing of value to the analysis of the situation, you've provided yet another case study into how people (particularly libs, it seems) just make **** up to confirm their biases. So for that I thank you.
B-Man Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) Another Race-based Show Trial Turns Into Farce By Clarice Feldman The Trayvon Martin-George Zimmerman case has come to trial this week and the best thing that's been said about it is from Thomas Maguire: "I'm proud to say I live in a country where the show trials look more like an SNL [saturday Night Live] skit." You probably won't know that if your source of information about the trial is the mainstream media and if your lifestyle doesn't permit you to sit in front of the TV for hours watching the trial. Instead, go to Legal Insurrection, a blog site run by Clinical Law Professor William A. Jacobson, where a defense counsel, Andrew Branca, has been summarizing the trial day by day with video snippets to illustrate his points, or Talk Left where Jeralyn Merritt , a noted defense counsel, has been dissecting this nothingburger of a case. As the Friday hearing drew to a close, Branca reported the effective end of the prosecution's misbegotten case: A neighbor, John Good, who witnessed the fight between Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman has just devastated the State's case, testifying that he saw the fight between the two, that Trayvon was on top punching Mixed Martial Arts style, and that the scream must have come from Zimmerman because Zimmerman was on the bottom and Trayvon was faced away from the witness. To date, the prosecution has put on a number of witnesses who also confirm Zimmerman's account of events. There's not one shred of evidence that supports the prosecution's view of the case. "Taps" should have been the background music for the key prosecution witness "Dee Dee" whose real name turns out to be Rachel Jeantel. She was on the phone with Trayvon when the incident occurred and her letter to Trayvon's mother purportedly describing the events and her deposition by the Martin's attorney, Crump, form the heart of the prosecution's case. Her testimony was conceded to be false at several points and the remainder collapsed on cross-examination. Rick Ballard said in the middle of her testimony that he pictured the prosecution "laying back in a nice warm bath this evening, straight razor in hand, trying to remember the exact location of jugular veins and carotid arteries." It turns out the letter the prosecution relied on was written by someone else, and while Jeantel signed it she cannot even read the cursive in which it was written. The Martins' counsel choreographed her account of the events and he misled the Court about the circumstances. {snip} But more important than her lies and incoherence was her admission that she didn't know who threw the first punch, and if she didn't, with what did the prosecutors hope to prove the shot wasn't fired in self-defense? As the week ends there is not a shred of credible evidence from the state of Florida to counter Zimmerman's self-defense assertion. Not one shred of evidence. For this a perfectly innocent man 's life has been ruined and he and his family impoverished. Let that sink in. The prosecution deserves to be tarred forever with this unjust prosecution. So should the Department of Justice, the race baiters who promoted it to keep the black voters stirred up in time for Obama's reelection. Recall Obama himself saying if he had a son he'd have looked like Trayvon, and the hundreds of marchers in hoodies carrying signs demanding this prosecution and carrying signs with angelic pictures of Trayvon as a kid, not as he was on the night of the murder -- a large man with a drug habit and a record of thuggery. No one mentions that like Tawana Brawley and Crystal Mangnum, Rachel Jeantel was exploited by her own people -- Crump and Sharpton and Jackson, who so tarnish the legacy of the civil rights movement by manipulating limited black women to lie for their own political and economic ends, despite the humiliation they bring upon these women when the facts finally are made clear. And after perfectly innocent people have suffered. Read more: http://www.americant...l#ixzz2XiFx1NMP Edited June 30, 2013 by B-Man
boyst Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 Melissa harris peer. " what right did trayvon have to defend himself from a stalker?". Hahaha some dude on here saying he had the right to defend himself Some other dude brought up that being black in America is like Mandella was in the 50's things will change with today's youth and this is an example Mandella was a street punk?
Just Jack Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 Either don't feed the troll, or start making stuff up like he does. Okay. I read on some obscure website that I'm not going to provide a link to, that Zimmerman secretly works for the NSA, and he thought Martin was Snowden, but because it was dark out, couldn't make a positive ID, but he killed him anyway.
Nanker Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 Okay. I read on some obscure website that I'm not going to provide a link to, that Zimmerman secretly works for the NSA, and he thought Martin was Snowden, but because it was dark out, couldn't make a positive ID, but he killed him anyway. I think I read that too. When the prosecution gets back to work on Monday, they'd better quickly make the link between Zimmerman and Snowden, so they can prove positively that GZ is a racist and wants to bring down Travon's father and the entire BO administration. Then the defense will have a harder time explaining GZ's SUV tire tracks on the lawns in Sanford which everyone knows show how he chased Travon down and pinned him up against the dumpster before he shot him from the driver's seat.
Donald Duck Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 This is where I get irritated. This is not a legal argument. This is the semi-coherent ramblings of an ignoramous who thinks his argument has merit; enough merit in fact that he choses to share it with others. Maybe Zimmerman does or does not deserve punishment for something, but your post offers nothing to push that needle in one direction or the other. Whether Trayvon Martin deserved to die has nothing whatsoever to do with whether George Zimmerman committed a crime or deserves punishment. What would have been objectively reasonable at the time he pulled the trigger is the determining factor, and so far I have yet to see you or anyone else establish the necessary mens rea with anything other than baseless conjecture. And if you think GZ getting out of the car when the dispatcher said he didn't need him to follow TZ is dispositive of guilt, you're a !@#$ing tard. So is there more to your analsysis or is that it? Debating something is one thing, but 70% of the replys I've gotten are insults. GZ set forth a chain of events that killed a man. It may not have been his intentions, no more then a drunk driver when he kills someone behind the wheels of a car, but it doesn't change the fact someone was killed. You guys need to put yourself in Trayvon Martins shoes and keep in mind this is a free Country we live in. Also keep in mind there are lots of drunks, lunatics, and gang bangers in this world just looking for a confrontation.
DC Tom Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 I think I read that too. When the prosecution gets back to work on Monday, they'd better quickly make the link between Zimmerman and Snowden, so they can prove positively that GZ is a racist and wants to bring down Travon's father and the entire BO administration. Then the defense will have a harder time explaining GZ's SUV tire tracks on the lawns in Sanford which everyone knows show how he chased Travon down and pinned him up against the dumpster before he shot him from the driver's seat. Zimmerman shot him from the passenger's seat, actually. They're not sure who was driving, but my money's on Aaron Hernandez. Those white Hispanics stick together. Damn cracker-spics. Debating something is one thing, but 70% of the replys I've gotten are insults. That's because you're a !@#$ing lazy moron. Everything you've posted has already been discussed. Go back and read the thread.
Donald Duck Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 And why let facts get in the way of a good opinion, right? Listen buddy I've watched the trial and listened to legal analyst discuss the case. Many of the points I make are being made by the so called experts in the field Over and over again posters try to tell me I don't have my facts straight yet fail to prove anything. Zimmerman shot him from the passenger's seat, actually. They're not sure who was driving, but my money's on Aaron Hernandez. Those white Hispanics stick together. Damn cracker-spics. That's because you're a !@#$ing lazy moron. Everything you've posted has already been discussed. Go back and read the thread. Oh so If its been discussed I can't share the opinion, lol, whatever you clown
Just Jack Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 Zimmerman shot him from the passenger's seat, actually. They're not sure who was driving, but my money's on Aaron Hernandez. Those white Hispanics stick together. Damn cracker-spics. I read on another obscure site that Plaxico Burris and Ray Lewis were in the back seats giving them advice and egging them on. Things like, don't carry a gun in your sweat pants, and pay off your buddies.
DC Tom Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 Oh so If its been discussed I can't share the opinion, lol, whatever you clown No, you can share your opinion. And when you B word about no one discussing it with you, we can point out that your stupid-ass opinion has already been discussed, and laugh at you for being a lazy !@#$ing moron.
Donald Duck Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 No, you can share your opinion. And when you B word about no one discussing it with you, we can point out that your stupid-ass opinion has already been discussed, and laugh at you for being a lazy !@#$ing moron. woof woof woof woof woof
Rob's House Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 Debating something is one thing, but 70% of the replys I've gotten are insults. GZ set forth a chain of events that killed a man. It may not have been his intentions, no more then a drunk driver when he kills someone behind the wheels of a car, but it doesn't change the fact someone was killed. You guys need to put yourself in Trayvon Martins shoes and keep in mind this is a free Country we live in. Also keep in mind there are lots of drunks, lunatics, and gang bangers in this world just looking for a confrontation. This is a ridiculous standard that no sane person would ever use if they hadn't been emotionally drawn to a particular side of the equation before being informed of the facts. Let's test the logic of your proposed standard using a separate hypo. Let's say I see someone who appears to have broken into a car. It could be his car and he just lost the keys, but it could be that he just broke into it and is making off with stolen property. I call the cops, but he's off to another block where I can't see him. I get out and follow behind him to see where he's going so I can tell the cops where to find him. He sees me, comes back and asks me why I'm following him. I ask him if he just broke into that car. He then punches me in the face, knocking me to the ground, sits on my chest, and starts pounding my face with his fist telling me I'm going to die today. What have I done wrong at this point, and why should I not be allowed to defend myself?
3rdnlng Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 woof woof woof woof woof See, this is the silly ass clown act that I would expect from EiI. Go to the site "legal insurrection" that I posted earlier in this thread. See what knowledgeable people (several defense attorneys) are saying. Go to my prior link and watch the video of GZ's re-enactment and see if it fits with the testimony. Do something other than listen to the LSM who have a dog in this fight. Educate yourself.
1billsfan Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 (edited) Debating something is one thing, but 70% of the replys I've gotten are insults. GZ set forth a chain of events that killed a man. It may not have been his intentions, no more then a drunk driver when he kills someone behind the wheels of a car, but it doesn't change the fact someone was killed. You guys need to put yourself in Trayvon Martins shoes and keep in mind this is a free Country we live in. Also keep in mind there are lots of drunks, lunatics, and gang bangers in this world just looking for a confrontation. Zimmerman was part of a community watch. If there wasn't lots of drunks, lunatics and gang bangers around his community then there would have never been a community watch. So the reality is that the drunks, lunatics and gang bangers in Zimmerman's community were the ones who set forth the chain of events which killed Trayvon. Also, Trayvon would still be alive if he had kept his cool. Is that a lot to ask? I don't know, but unfortunately for him, he had the very bad luck of trying to split open a guys head who happened to be carrying a gun. Edited June 30, 2013 by 1billsfan
boyst Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 Zimmerman was part of a community watch. If there wasn't lots of drunks, lunatics and gang bangers around his community then there would have never been a community watch. So the reality is that the drunks, lunatics and gang bangers in Zimmerman's community were the ones who set forth the chain of events which killed Trayvon. Also, Trayvon would still be alive if he had kept his cool. Is that a lot to ask? I don't know, but unfortunately for him, he had the very bad luck of trying to split open a guys head who happened to be carrying a gun. which is why we should outlaw guns. There is no reason we should have a young boy dead today because some white guy knew he could not defend himself without a gun.
3rdnlng Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 Zimmerman was part of a community watch. If there wasn't lots of drunks, lunatics and gang bangers around his community then there would have never been a community watch. So the reality is that the drunks, lunatics and gang bangers in Zimmerman's community were the ones who set forth the chain of events which killed Trayvon. Also, Trayvon would still be alive if he had kept his cool. Is that a lot to ask? I don't know, but unfortunately for him, he had the very bad luck of trying to split open a guys head who happened to be carrying a gun. It's GZ's fault because he was born. See, if he had never lived, he wouldn't have been there to protect himself with a firearm and TM wouldn't have attacked him because he wouldn't have been able to see him. Clearly GZ's fault.
Just Jack Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 It's GZ's fault because he was born. See, if he had never lived, he wouldn't have been there to protect himself with a firearm and TM wouldn't have attacked him because he wouldn't have been able to see him. Clearly GZ's fault. George Zimmerman was born in 1983, which was a period of time when the ecomony under President Reagan was starting to recover. So if Reagan had not beat Carter in the 1980 election, George Zimmermans parents may have had second thoughts about having a child in a bad ecomony. therefore I blame Reagan for the death of Martin.
1billsfan Posted June 30, 2013 Posted June 30, 2013 which is why we should outlaw guns. There is no reason we should have a young boy dead today because some white guy knew he could not defend himself without a gun. You mean the "young boy" who was trying to separate Zimmerman's brain from his skull? That "young boy"? I'm sorry, but that second part makes you sound about as smart and sensible as Trayvon's girlfriend.
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