Dre Kirkpatrick CB Alabama

[BuffaloBillsSD]

I could care less that he smoked/smokes pot. I think you'd be surprised how many players do. If he can be a pro bowl CB, he's worth the selection and I'd back it up completely.

 

I would be more concerned if he failed a drug test at the combine. Knowing you have to be clean but not caring enough to stop for a couple weeks would be more of a red flag for me.

[Reed83HOF]

Are you typing while driving?

 

Where do you see Floyd or Kirkpatrick ending up? Do you see Janoris Jenkins as a better fit than Kirkpatrick? Can you think of a scenario where Claiborne could fall to us?

 

I would be more concerned if he failed a drug test at the combine. Knowing you have to be clean but not caring enough to stop for a couple weeks would be more of a red flag for me.

 

Great Point

[Dorkington]

I'm worried about our O-Line more than anything else right now...

[Reed83HOF]

I'm worried about our O-Line more than anything else right now...

 

There is no OLman worthy of the #10 that isn't a reach. The value just is not there. Yeah we need one, but it won't happen at 10...

[ajzepp]

100% agree. People here are suffering from amnesia about our horrid d(even when Kyle was playing) now that we've signed Mario.

Our D front 7 still needs serious work even with the huge Mario signing.Doesn't look like there is great value at LB at #10--but we should do our best to figure out a way to get LB talent...and/or get another yes another nasty D lineman in there. Kyle and mario are coming off season ending injuries and you can never have enough strong D linemen. We need a LT as well.

Build it from the inside out.Look at all the consistently good teams in this league.---Of course CB is a need on this team--but not at the expense of a front 7 guy.

 

Exactly...add to that that it's just more "Buffalo-like" to have a dominating front 7. I want us to have a group like the Giants have...where Tommy boy leaves a trail of urine as he's walking into the Ralph to face us.

[Kelly the Dog]

There is no OLman worthy of the #10 that isn't a reach. The value just is not there. Yeah we need one, but it won't happen at 10...

You mean except if Buddy Nix and the Bills scouts disagree with your player evaluations?

[Reed83HOF]

You mean except if Buddy Nix and the Bills scouts disagree with your player evaluations?

 

Of Course!

 

In all honesty, I don't care who we draft we have a bunch of holes to be plugged an upgraded and LT is a concern along with DE (even though we have Mario). At this spot, tell me that Gailey & Nix won't go after a toy. And I don't want to see the obligatory 'They won't' reply.

 

Not highjacking the thread, but Kelly what are your thoughts on us needing an LB, especially with the Wanny article in today's buff news??

[Kelly the Dog]

Of Course!

 

In all honesty, I don't care who we draft we have a bunch of holes to be plugged an upgraded and LT is a concern along with DE (even though we have Mario). At this spot, tell me that Gailey & Nix won't go after a toy. And I don't want to see the obligatory 'They won't' reply.

 

Not highjacking the thread, but Kelly what are your thoughts on us needing an LB, especially with the Wanny article in today's buff news??

 

I have said it before but will say it again, and probably 100 times after this: every pick, in every round, by every team, in every sport, is exactly the same thing, Best Player Available versus Best Player Available at Position(s) of need. It never fails and everyone looks at it the same way. They ALL look at their boards at the 2-3 Best Players Available and then they look at their boards at the Best 2-3 Players available at Position(s) of Need and then they make the determination between those several players if the BPA is leaps and bounds above the BPAPON, significantly better, slightly better, or pretty close. If it's significant, they take the BPA. If it's neglible, they take the BPAPON at one of those positions.

 

Of course there are all kinds of other factors, like who have they drafted already, is the player who plays the second or third most needy position close to these other guys, are there going to be guys later on in the next rounds they love they think will be there, etc. But that is all looked at and factored in the same way.

 

There are always 4-5 different players being considered and they decided between them who is going to help the team in the short term, mid term, and long term (which is another thing most fans don't enter into their own equations). Especially in round one, there is a much greater tendency to take BPA because you're likely going to have him 4-5 years or even more, and in that time, your positions of need are going to change, perhaps drastically. Later rounds you don't know if they are going to be there after 1-2 years. Some GMs like BPA a little more than other GMs, too.

 

The Bills IMO are going to be considering at least 6 players strongly when their pick comes up, the best LT, the best WR, the best LB, CB, DE and QB. But they will already have made most of their comparison picks of BPA vs BPAPON before it gets there. That's why Nix immediately makes the pick within one minute. To me, if they love a LT or WR they will take one at #10. And if they love one each at that position they will then decide if they love one of them more than the other, and take BPA between them. They all have their ratings. But if they really would like to upgrade LT and the WR available they love a little tiny bit more, they will take the LT rated a tiny bit less. It's the same argument as above though, in a micro perspective.

 

Also, I highly doubt it, but if they love Tannehill, and he is BPA or very close to it, they will take him in a heartbeat. I just don't think they will love him nearly that much.

 

As far as LB goes, I don't see a lot of them that fit the need going at #10. I think they will look to get a guy in round 2 or 3 as a LB. It also depends on if they re-sign Bryan Scott, as well as what Wanny thinks of Searcy if they don't (whether he thinks Seacry can start as the LB/S hybrid in nickel and dime defenses the way Scott did). I think they like Sheppard enough that they are highly unlikely to draft a MLB #1. Same with Barnett. I think Wanny is probably pretty comfortable with Morrison as a starter but we surely need a lot of depth at that position. i don't think they are going to draft a LB at #10 but the Mario signing completely sways the BPA vs BPAPON more toward BPA, and Buddy Nix doesn't like trading up, or trading down, and doesn't care one bit what other draftniks think about players. I am not at all predicting this, and I have never seen him play so I have no idea if he is any good, but I could easily see Nix taking Stephen Hill at #10 even if no one has him rated in the top 15 or 20 if Nix and Gailey think he has the moves and hands to someday be a star. He fits what they want.

 

If I had to predict, I would think the pick is Floyd, Hill, Martin or Reiff. Plus there are always shockers in the first 9. So some guy, perhaps even Blackmon, could be available if Tannehill is taken high and another team or two makes an out of the box choice.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Kelly the Dog

[OldTimer1960]

I have said it before but will say it again, and probably 100 times after this: every pick, in every round, by every team, in every sport, is exactly the same thing, Best Player Available versus Best Player Available at Position(s) of need. It never fails and everyone looks at it the same way. They ALL look at their boards at the 2-3 Best Players Available and then they look at their boards at the Best 2-3 Players available at Position(s) of Need and then they make the determination between those several players if the BPA is leaps and bounds above the BPAPON, significantly better, slightly better, or pretty close. If it's significant, they take the BPA. If it's neglible, they take the BPAPON at one of those positions.

 

Of course there are all kinds of other factors, like who have they drafted already, is the player who plays the second or third most needy position close to these other guys, are there going to be guys later on in the next rounds they love they think will be there, etc. But that is all looked at and factored in the same way.

 

There are always 4-5 different players being considered and they decided between them who is going to help the team in the short term, mid term, and long term (which is another thing most fans don't enter into their own equations). Especially in round one, there is a much greater tendency to take BPA because you're likely going to have him 4-5 years or even more, and in that time, your positions of need are going to change, perhaps drastically. Later rounds you don't know if they are going to be there after 1-2 years. Some GMs like BPA a little more than other GMs, too.

 

The Bills IMO are going to be considering at least 6 players strongly when their pick comes up, the best LT, the best WR, the best LB, CB, DE and QB. But they will already have made most of their comparison picks of BPA vs BPAPON before it gets there. That's why Nix immediately makes the pick within one minute. To me, if they love a LT or WR they will take one at #10. And if they love one each at that position they will then decide if they love one of them more than the other, and take BPA between them. They all have their ratings. But if they really would like to upgrade LT and the WR available they love a little tiny bit more, they will take the LT rated a tiny bit less. It's the same argument as above though, in a micro perspective.

 

Also, I highly doubt it, but if they love Tannehill, and he is BPA or very close to it, they will take him in a heartbeat. I just don't think they will love him nearly that much.

 

As far as LB goes, I don't see a lot of them that fit the need going at #10. I think they will look to get a guy in round 2 or 3 as a LB. It also depends on if they re-sign Bryan Scott, as well as what Wanny thinks of Searcy if they don't (whether he thinks Seacry can start as the LB/S hybrid in nickel and dime defenses the way Scott did). I think they like Sheppard enough that they are highly unlikely to draft a MLB #1. Same with Barnett. I think Wanny is probably pretty comfortable with Morrison as a starter but we surely need a lot of depth at that position. i don't think they are going to draft a LB at #10 but the Mario signing completely sways the BPA vs BPAPON more toward BPA, and Buddy Nix doesn't like trading up, or trading down, and doesn't care one bit what other draftniks think about players. I am not at all predicting this, and I have never seen him play so I have no idea if he is any good, but I could easily see Nix taking Stephen Hill at #10 even if no one has him rated in the top 15 or 20 if Nix and Gailey think he has the moves and hands to someday be a star. He fits what they want.

 

If I had to predict, I would think the pick is Floyd, Hill, Martin or Reiff. Plus there are always shockers in the first 9. So some guy, perhaps even Blackmon, could be available if Tannehill is taken high and another team or two makes an out of the box choice.

 

Very insightful comments, but I can't see Stephen Hill being a good pick at all. Hill caught all of 28 passes in his last season and a weak total of 49 for his entire

college career. If a team takes him in round 1 at all, let alone at 10, it will be a major gamble. Hill did at least have a high yards-per-catch average. I acknowledge

that GT is a run first, run second and then MAYBE pass team, but still that is WEAK production for a high #1 pick.

 

In comparison, Calvin Johnson caught 178 passes in his college career at the same school (about 4.5x what Hill caught in the same number of years).

 

In comparison to Demarius Thomas (also from GT), he caught 120 passes in 3 years (about 2.5x what Hill caught).

Edited March 18, 2012 by OldTimer1960

[Reed83HOF]

I have said it before but will say it again, and probably 100 times after this: every pick, in every round, by every team, in every sport, is exactly the same thing, Best Player Available versus Best Player Available at Position(s) of need. It never fails and everyone looks at it the same way. They ALL look at their boards at the 2-3 Best Players Available and then they look at their boards at the Best 2-3 Players available at Position(s) of Need and then they make the determination between those several players if the BPA is leaps and bounds above the BPAPON, significantly better, slightly better, or pretty close. If it's significant, they take the BPA. If it's neglible, they take the BPAPON at one of those positions.

 

Of course there are all kinds of other factors, like who have they drafted already, is the player who plays the second or third most needy position close to these other guys, are there going to be guys later on in the next rounds they love they think will be there, etc. But that is all looked at and factored in the same way.

 

There are always 4-5 different players being considered and they decided between them who is going to help the team in the short term, mid term, and long term (which is another thing most fans don't enter into their own equations). Especially in round one, there is a much greater tendency to take BPA because you're likely going to have him 4-5 years or even more, and in that time, your positions of need are going to change, perhaps drastically. Later rounds you don't know if they are going to be there after 1-2 years. Some GMs like BPA a little more than other GMs, too.

 

The Bills IMO are going to be considering at least 6 players strongly when their pick comes up, the best LT, the best WR, the best LB, CB, DE and QB. But they will already have made most of their comparison picks of BPA vs BPAPON before it gets there. That's why Nix immediately makes the pick within one minute. To me, if they love a LT or WR they will take one at #10. And if they love one each at that position they will then decide if they love one of them more than the other, and take BPA between them. They all have their ratings. But if they really would like to upgrade LT and the WR available they love a little tiny bit more, they will take the LT rated a tiny bit less. It's the same argument as above though, in a micro perspective.

 

Also, I highly doubt it, but if they love Tannehill, and he is BPA or very close to it, they will take him in a heartbeat. I just don't think they will love him nearly that much.

 

As far as LB goes, I don't see a lot of them that fit the need going at #10. I think they will look to get a guy in round 2 or 3 as a LB. It also depends on if they re-sign Bryan Scott, as well as what Wanny thinks of Searcy if they don't (whether he thinks Seacry can start as the LB/S hybrid in nickel and dime defenses the way Scott did). I think they like Sheppard enough that they are highly unlikely to draft a MLB #1. Same with Barnett. I think Wanny is probably pretty comfortable with Morrison as a starter but we surely need a lot of depth at that position. i don't think they are going to draft a LB at #10 but the Mario signing completely sways the BPA vs BPAPON more toward BPA, and Buddy Nix doesn't like trading up, or trading down, and doesn't care one bit what other draftniks think about players. I am not at all predicting this, and I have never seen him play so I have no idea if he is any good, but I could easily see Nix taking Stephen Hill at #10 even if no one has him rated in the top 15 or 20 if Nix and Gailey think he has the moves and hands to someday be a star. He fits what they want.

 

If I had to predict, I would think the pick is Floyd, Hill, Martin or Reiff. Plus there are always shockers in the first 9. So some guy, perhaps even Blackmon, could be available if Tannehill is taken high and another team or two makes an out of the box choice.

 

That is the more 'fair and balanced' opinion I have ever read; I agree with all of what you said. Being GM and making these picks is not an easy position to be. I believe that in regards to the current draft, looking at the 'big picture' you have to be somewhat conscious of the depth expected in next year's draft as well. If you value LT a tad bit more than a CB in this draft, but there are better and deeper prospects LT and the CB position is weak next year; do you take the CB this year? I think you have to have an eye towards the big picture as well and the upcoming draft prospects - to a measured degree of course.

 

I try to look at what position we and the league place value on and what schemes we run. If you have an solid interior line and have hopes that a current player like Hairston at LT, does an upgrade with an impact WR like Hill or Floyd, take pressure off that LT position as Defenses will have to be more honest and respect that knew weapon, instead of pinning their ears back and attacking the line and QB. All of sudden your problem with LT lessens to a degree. I see the same on Defense, with a pass rush being created solely on the Dline (yeah we need a Mario back-up), the secondary is the other portion of the D that is next most critical. That lock down CB becomes the next most important position after end. When it comes to the stopping the run, that same Dline has to control their gaps and the role of the LBs is make the tackle at the point of impact. How effective the LBs are depend on how effective that line is, which is why you look for these as value picks later on. Obviously the caveat is if the LB for instance is impossible to pass up.

 

I agree wholeheartedly on your view on the LB position this season. I don't have a good feel for what the teams ahead of us are looking. I think there is a chance Floyd might even be gone.

[Astrobot]

Where do you see Floyd or Kirkpatrick ending up? Do you see Janoris Jenkins as a better fit than Kirkpatrick? Can you think of a scenario where Claiborne could fall to us?

 

We just submitted comments on another mock draft, which will be posted tomorrow here. Here are the picks down to Buffalo's:

 

1 Indianapolis Andrew Luck QB Stanford

2 Washington Robert Griffin QB Baylor

3 Minnesota Matt Kalil LOT USC

4 Cleveland Tr. Richardson RBF Alabama

5 Tampa Bay Mor.Claiborne CB LSU

6 St Louis Justin Blackmon WRF Oklahoma State

7 Jacksonville Riley Reiff ROT Iowa

8 Miami Dolph Melvin Ingram OLB34 South Carolina

9 Carolina Fletcher Cox DT43 Mississippi State

10 Buffalo:

 

Here are the players likely to be drafted in the next 12 slots, so Floyd is there:

Offense

Michael Floyd---WR-------Notre Dame

David DeCastro--OG-------Stanford

Cordy Glenn-----OG-------Georgia

Mike Adams------LOT------Ohio State

Jon Martin------LOT------Stanford

 

Defense

Luke Kuechly----SILB-----Boston College

Quinton Coples--DE43-----North Carolina

Whit. Mercilus--DE43-----Illinois

Zach Brown------OLB43----North Carolina

Courtney Upshaw-DE43/OLB-Alabama

Dre Kirkpatrick-CB-------Alabama

Mark Barron-----SS-------Alabama

 

We have Kirkpatrick to CIN at #17, and Janoris Jenkins slipping to [gag] the Cheatriots at #31. I like Jenkins on-field resume for the Bills--he's quick, changes direction effortlessly, has the verticality to compensate for being about 2" shorter than Kirkpatrick, and he's talking like a reformed schoolboy.

 

How Claiborne could fall to us, eh? It's very unlikely:

(1) You have to get T-Bay, St. Louis, and Jacksonville to trade out of their spots for more picks; they always take Claiborne in the simulator if Claiborne is there.

(2) You can't have either of them trade to Cincinnati for their twin first rounders, because they'll come up and take Claiborne.

(3) PGH, SEA, BAL, NYG are least likely to draft CB, so those teams have to be the ones trading up.

(4) SEA wants DE really bad (especially since we took Mario). SEA will want to leapfrog CAR, MIA, and BUF who'll sap the choice of pass rush. SEA trades up to T-Bay for their 2nd RD.

(5) PGH trades up for Luke Kuechly, and BAL trades up for Hightower, each surrendering their RD2.

Round Pick Team Selection Psn School CRI Delta ReachValue

1 1 Indianapolis Andrew Luck QB Stanford

1 2 Washington Robert Griffin QB Baylor

1 3 Minnesota Matt Kalil OT USC

1 4 Cleveland Justin Blackmon WRF Oklahoma State

1 5 Seattle Courtney Upshaw DE43 Alabama

1 6 Pittsburgh Luke Kuechly ILB Boston College

1 7 Baltimore Dont'a Hightower ILB Alabama

1 8 Miami Quinton Coples DE43 North Carolina

1 9 Carolina Fletcher Cox DT43 Mississippi St

1 10 Buffalo Morris Claiborne CB LSU

[Shoutbox]

It should be noted that the charges against Kirkpatrick were DROPPED. If he ends up being our pick, I will have full confidence that Buddy Nix and the team's southern scouts did their homework on Dre's character and his commitment to his football career. Before the marijuana charge, Dre was considered to be neck-and-neck with Claiborne for top ranked CB in the draft. His talents are especially valuable to teams that employ zone coverage schemes. So if Jonathan Martin gets picked in the top 9, don't be surprised to see Dre get selected at #10 on account of "BPA" philosophy...regardless of what you personally think of drafting 1st round CB's.

[JPS]

I still stick with the philosophy that you build defense from the lines outward. Our front 7 is not set yet...I'd go front 7 before CB.

Yep

[ColdBlueNorth]

100% agree. People here are suffering from amnesia about our horrid d(even when Kyle was playing) now that we've signed Mario.

Our D front 7 still needs serious work even with the huge Mario signing.Doesn't look like there is great value at LB at #10--but we should do our best to figure out a way to get LB talent...and/or get another yes another nasty D lineman in there. Kyle and mario are coming off season ending injuries and you can never have enough strong D linemen. We need a LT as well.

Build it from the inside out.Look at all the consistently good teams in this league.---Of course CB is a need on this team--but not at the expense of a front 7 guy.

 

I am usually on the same page here - love the big nasty D-Line and I think with question marks still on Kyle and on Troup we have needs there, that being said 4-3 defensive tackles are pretty deep in this draft without a whole lot of separation in the pack, and none of them scream top 10 pick.

 

If Dre Kirkpatrick is there we should take him. He has rare size and speed for a corner, and would match up well in our division against the TE's we see with pass-happy NE. That pick would still leave plenty of quality defensive tackles in the early second round where most of them should project any ways. The draft is also pretty deep with Offensive Tackles and WR's with size.

 

QB's drop off fast, but if they are not all in for the top talent then they can grab a project well back in the later rounds. The thin pickings are the same with TE's and Centers (or Guards that project as Centers) and the Bills may just take a pass this year on those positions since they worked so hard to lock up Chandler, and Fitz has been pretty durable. I really hope Wood comes back strong, he just is such a hard worker and plays with so much passion you hope he can make it back fully. If he does we will have a very solid interior line with very good depth.

 

All in all this should be a great draft for the Bills to retool and add depth to a lot of positions.

[NeverOutNick]

 

We have Kirkpatrick to CIN at #17, and Janoris Jenkins slipping to [gag] the Cheatriots at #31. I like Jenkins on-field resume for the Bills--he's quick, changes direction effortlessly, has the verticality to compensate for being about 2" shorter than Kirkpatrick, and he's talking like a reformed schoolboy.

 

 

Exactly why Jenkins should be rated higher (and hopefully is on Bills' board). I'm ok with a lot of players in the top 15 (no surprise Whitner pick either) going to us but a few I really do not want to see go to the Bills are Upshaw (great against run not an NFL pass rusher) , Kirkpatrick (not because they are from Alabama but because they're not good fits for our scheme and talents are overrated, I do like Hightower alot but not in the top 10), Richardson (no need), DT (Even though Poe's a beast), Adams (Seems a bit lazy not what you want in a LT).

 

Obviously it would be great if Blackmon or Claiborne fell to us or we traded down for better value but if we stay at 10 we have to take BPA and if the OTs (Reiff, Martin, and Glenn, who i like alot) are not rated high enough for Nix then Kuechly (play any LB position) or Floyd are great value. From a talent and not need perspective, I'm even ok with Ingram, Tannehill, Decastro, Jenkins, Coples (our line could be a good fit for him to play hard), and maybe even long shot Hill

[NewEra]

1332103537[/url]' post='2413567']

I would be more concerned if he failed a drug test at the combine. Knowing you have to be clean but not caring enough to stop for a couple weeks would be more of a red flag for me.

 

Just like warren sapp and randy moss, amongst others. I'm not happy that he smokes pot and might be a little scatter brained but have you seen him play football? He's pretty dam good.

[Max997]

I really want us to take him at 10 and find a solution to LT elsewhere somehow

 

yeah bc CB is more important then LT

Edited March 19, 2012 by Max997

[Reed83HOF]

The Bills, Cowboys, Jaguars, Vikings, Buccaneers, Ravens, Lions and Titans are listed as eight of the teams that will meet with Kirkpatrick

[LynchMob23]

Astro,

If it's the way you have listed and those guys are available, Buddy, especially in the first 2 rounds wants production. "If you've done it in college you'd do it here" is what he said at some point or another. Given that, I think a WR like Hill is out, because he doesn't have that production. I would say it would be a toss up between Coples, Martin, Floyd or Glenn. Personally I'd add Coples to the bunch and dare teams to run wide or throw quick passes between the "trees"

[Kelly the Dog]

Astro,

If it's the way you have listed and those guys are available, Buddy, especially in the first 2 rounds wants production. "If you've done it in college you'd do it here" is what he said at some point or another. Given that, I think a WR like Hill is out, because he doesn't have that production. I would say it would be a toss up between Coples, Martin, Floyd or Glenn.

To me, Buddy says a lot of great things, and he is very straight forward. He goes after a certain kind of player, and almost all of the players he gets fit MOST of his criterion. It's extremely hard to find guys that fit all of them. Just because Hill doesn't fit one of those 6-7 things that Nix likes does not at all take him out of the running in any way.

 

Buddy likes, has said he likes, and has had a history of acquiring:

 

Big guys

Fast guys

Guys who played in major programs in top conferences

High character guys

Smart guys

Guys who played a lot of football versus one year wonders

Guys who produced on the field

 

If Steven Hill or anyone fits 5-6 of those 7 things, there is no way Nix is going to shy away from him in any way. Nix wants a big fast WR to make plays and that can block. Hill does that. He played at a big school against top quality teams. He seems, to me at least, to be a smart, high character guy. I have no idea if they are going to draft him, I'm sure Chan has a very good idea of what kind of player he is by his GT connections. I have a hunch they are very interested in him.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Kelly the Dog