BRAWNDO Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I think we are going to need NGU input closer to the draft. I think BPA between WR, CB or LT would be great.
John Cocktosten Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Wouldn't having a guy that could pass block and run block and stay healthy and anchor the edge of the line without needing help have an impact? There really is no question about it. Have you looked around at the AFC east lately? There is not one great edge rusher on any teams (except Buffalo hopefully). You don't need a great OT in an offensive scheme that is built off of the 3 step drop game. Slants, speed cuts, screens are our bread and butter because those are Fitz's strengths. He is not a 5 step QB. He can't throw the deep ball to save his life so he doesn't need 5 seconds in the pocket. It's unbelievable that some people cant understand this.
The Senator Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) Just my humble opinion here, but to me it's looking more like Buddy's plan at LT is to re-sign Bell, develop Hairston, and have Levitre/Urbik as depth in an injury/disaster situation. That actually would then make drafting another guard in round one a sensible (though not a terribly popular) move. However, if Buddy does draft a guard in round one, you can bet it's not gonna be Glenn - the 2ndbest ranked guard and a round-2 pick on most boards. It'd be Stanford's David DeCastro - big, mean, smart, athletic, and equally strong in both run-blocking and pass-protection...and probably the most highly rated interior offensive lineman in the draft in at least a decade...a guy who would be equally effective maintaining the pocket for Fitz or busting open huge holes for Jackson/Spiller... GO BILLSSS!!!! "I expect to be undefeated...I expect to win every game." - Chan Gailey 19 and 0 baby!!!!! Edited March 18, 2012 by The Senator
Bill from NYC Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 (edited) What is with he Left Tackle mafia around here lately? LT is NOT the 2nd most important position in the game. Not even close. Joe Thomas, Jake Long, Michael Roos and Jason Peters are the consensus best tackles year after year in the NFL and they never take their teams to the playoffs. A QB who makes quick decisions and has good pocket presence makes his Oline look a lot better. Here is a stat for you. There hasn't been a OT picked in the first round to start in the super bowl in since 2007. Great teams pick impact players up near the top of the draft. Matt Light was a second round pick, and is still kicking ass 11 years later. Now. I urge you to examine the first round picks of the patsies since they picked Light. http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/teams/patriots How many would you rather have than Light? My point? Light would have been worth a #10. Do you think that the patsies, as great as Brady is, would have enjoyed the same success with Langston Walker, Greg Jerman, or Bell on a gurney playing LT? I make the case that this would be an impossibility. I also once again bring up the dirty little secret of playing in the elements. This winter was great, but how about next season, and the one after that. I have been to games at RWS where passing was all but out of the question, and 2 of our divisional opponents play in the cold as well. Even in this new passing league, running will always mean just a bit more to the Bills than it does to most other teams. Exceptions? Sure, the Packers. Farve could throw through a tornado, and Rodgers looks like he will be in the hall of fame. This post is not to dismiss yours as rubbish. You DO raise some valid points. I just think that it isn't as simple as you present it, and I believe that a top quality LT would be a HUGE boost to the Bills. Edited March 18, 2012 by Bill from NYC
Sisyphean Bills Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Have you looked around at the AFC east lately? There is not one great edge rusher on any teams (except Buffalo hopefully). You don't need a great OT in an offensive scheme that is built off of the 3 step drop game. Slants, speed cuts, screens are our bread and butter because those are Fitz's strengths. He is not a 5 step QB. He can't throw the deep ball to save his life so he doesn't need 5 seconds in the pocket. It's unbelievable that some people cant understand this. You misunderstand me. I'm not saying they can't get by without the best LT in the NFL on the roster. They showed last year that Gailey knows how to coach around weaknesses. But, you said a LT has no impact. That isn't a good argument. Having a great LT may not be essential, but having one does have an impact and would let the Bills run a more varied offense. Think of it this way: would you rather constantly coach around a weakness or be able to design plays knowing you had a strength in that spot? Again, there is really no comparison when you look at it that way. Still, if you are of the opinion that the Bills did not fill all of their holes with Mario Williams and that there are other priorities besides LT then you may also have a good point...
SoFFacet Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 If they do re-sign Bell I don't see LT as a huge need. I mean, it could be upgraded, sure. But the difference between Bell/Hairston and Reiff/Martin/Adams just isn't as large as say, Donald Jones and Micheal Floyd. Buddy is a BPA guy and will swing for the fences on a franchise caliber weapon if thats what he thinks he sees (see: Spiller, CJ).
John Cocktosten Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 You misunderstand me. I'm not saying they can't get by without the best LT in the NFL on the roster. They showed last year that Gailey knows how to coach around weaknesses. But, you said a LT has no impact. That isn't a good argument. Having a great LT may not be essential, but having one does have an impact and would let the Bills run a more varied offense. Think of it this way: would you rather constantly coach around a weakness or be able to design plays knowing you had a strength in that spot? Again, there is really no comparison when you look at it that way. Still, if you are of the opinion that the Bills did not fill all of their holes with Mario Williams and that there are other priorities besides LT then you may also have a good point... There certainly are valid points to be made for an OT. But I look at the Giants and what they've been able to do with their pass rush. They have Tuck and Osi and they decided to draft MK and JPP in the first round. They know they have a QB who doesn't hold onto the ball and has good pocket mobility and those are both strengths of Fitz. They've had great success against the Pats and we haven't. The Bills didn't beat the Pats with 5 step drops, we beat them with screens and slants that went for big yardage. Again, the Bills offense is built on getting the ball out quickly. And we drove Brady nuts that game by getting in throwing lanes and making him move in the pocket. Last point. Look at what guys like Mathews did last year for the Pack. He made THE game changing play in the SB coming off the edge and changed the game. Tuck in this years super bowl getting a safety on the first drive. Woodley and Harrison dominating the Cards. If there is an impact edge player at #10, which I think Ingram is, then he is going to do a lot more for this team than an OT. Just my opinion.
JPS Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 What is with he Left Tackle mafia around here lately? LT is NOT the 2nd most important position in the game. Not even close. Joe Thomas, Jake Long, Michael Roos and Jason Peters are the consensus best tackles year after year in the NFL and they never take their teams to the playoffs. A QB who makes quick decisions and has good pocket presence makes his Oline look a lot better. Here is a stat for you. There hasn't been a OT picked in the first round to start in the super bowl in since 2007. Great teams pick impact players up near the top of the draft. Pretty solid points.
mEAz Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I agree that LT is a def need, but there isn't one worth taking at 10 this year...take one of the second or third tier guys and see if they can excel?..btw, Clifton was a second round pick
JPS Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Just my humble opinion here, but to me it's looking more like Buddy's plan at LT is to re-sign Bell, develop Hairston, and have Levitre/Urbik as depth in an injury/disaster situation. That actually would then make drafting another guard in round one a sensible (though not a terribly popular) move. However, if Buddy does draft a guard in round one, you can bet it's not gonna be Glenn - the 2ndbest ranked guard and a round-2 pick on most boards. It'd be Stanford's David DeCastro - big, mean, smart, athletic, and equally strong in both run-blocking and pass-protection...and probably the most highly rated interior offensive lineman in the draft in at least a decade...a guy who would be equally effective maintaining the pocket for Fitz or busting open huge holes for Jackson/Spiller... GO BILLSSS!!!! "I expect to be undefeated...I expect to win every game." - Chan Gailey 19 and 0 baby!!!!! Didn't the Giants left tackle (Deihl, I think) start at guard for years before making the switch? Would Levitre be serviceable at LT. Not great, but serviceable? Dunno. That's the only way I see DeCastro in the mix. But if he is truly the BPA, he will be the pick.
The Big Cat Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Didn't the Giants left tackle (Deihl, I think) start at guard for years before making the switch? Would Levitre be serviceable at LT. Not great, but serviceable? Dunno. That's the only way I see DeCastro in the mix. But if he is truly the BPA, he will be the pick. This scenario is precisely why I brought up Levitre in this thread... Levitre/DeCastro/Wood.... That's a nice little trio...
metzelaars_lives Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Best case scenario: Bell re-signs at a resonable price, Bills draft Floyd in the 1st or Jeffery in the 2nd. Not that complicated.
robertpaul49 Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 The Giants left tackle is Beatty, a second round pick out of UConn. Diehl moved to tackle after Beatty got hurt. I absolutely do not want the Bills to reach for a tackle because of need. In the first round, they should draft the best player available, outside of guard or running back. I would be happy if they draft a young player and sign a veteran so the young player can develop. Just like wide receiver, offensive linemen take time to develop. Even wide receivers are going to take time to develop, but I do not think the Bills are done in free agency. I think they are done with the big signings, but once free agency settles down they will be able to fill in more of their needs, i.e. OT and WR.
PISSCHUNK Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Intereting enough, after reading your post about Cordy Glenn, I scanned through many of the reputable draft sites and sure enough, Ourlad's has updated theirs and you guessed it...Cordy Glenn to the Bills at #10. Just sayin... Late
ndirish1978 Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Just my humble opinion here, but to me it's looking more like Buddy's plan at LT is to re-sign Bell, develop Hairston, and have Levitre/Urbik as depth in an injury/disaster situation. That actually would then make drafting another guard in round one a sensible (though not a terribly popular) move. However, if Buddy does draft a guard in round one, you can bet it's not gonna be Glenn - the 2ndbest ranked guard and a round-2 pick on most boards. It'd be Stanford's David DeCastro - big, mean, smart, athletic, and equally strong in both run-blocking and pass-protection...and probably the most highly rated interior offensive lineman in the draft in at least a decade...a guy who would be equally effective maintaining the pocket for Fitz or busting open huge holes for Jackson/Spiller... GO BILLSSS!!!! "I expect to be undefeated...I expect to win every game." - Chan Gailey 19 and 0 baby!!!!! Both Levitre and Urbik are solid starters. You want one of them to switch solely to a backup role for no reason just so we can draft DeCastro? That makes no sense to me.
Mr_Blizzard Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 I agree with Owen: This is the year to go after a Left Tackle, assuming he is the best value available at #10. I don't see us picking any higher than the middle of the first round for the next few years, so this pick has to count. If there are no OT's that warrant a high first-round pick, I would look at the best available LB, again - he must be high first-round talent. It's no secret that our defense allowed a ton of points last year, but signing Mario should go a long way towards fixing the "D". That being said, a top-notch LB would be a great addidtion to this team if we can't land our Left OT at #10.
OldTimer1960 Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 There certainly are valid points to be made for an OT. But I look at the Giants and what they've been able to do with their pass rush. They have Tuck and Osi and they decided to draft MK and JPP in the first round. They know they have a QB who doesn't hold onto the ball and has good pocket mobility and those are both strengths of Fitz. They've had great success against the Pats and we haven't. The Bills didn't beat the Pats with 5 step drops, we beat them with screens and slants that went for big yardage. Again, the Bills offense is built on getting the ball out quickly. And we drove Brady nuts that game by getting in throwing lanes and making him move in the pocket. Last point. Look at what guys like Mathews did last year for the Pack. He made THE game changing play in the SB coming off the edge and changed the game. Tuck in this years super bowl getting a safety on the first drive. Woodley and Harrison dominating the Cards. If there is an impact edge player at #10, which I think Ingram is, then he is going to do a lot more for this team than an OT. Just my opinion. It is enticing to think of grabbing Ingram in round 1. With the addition of Williams and Ingram, their pass rush would be very much improved. I think that your earlier point about Fitz being a 3 step drop QB and therefore there is no need to invest in a quality LT is a little off. With the poor LT play the Bills have had with Bell out, they don't even have the threat of being able to throw mid to deep. Without that threat, safeties and LBs don't have to respect the deep play and can creep closer to the line, thus congesting the areas that those short passes go to, as well as making it more difficult to run the ball. I am not necessarily saying that drafting Ingram over a LT would be a bad move- quite the contrary. I am saying that finding a talented LT would open up the offense, even with a QB that doesn't have the greatest deep arm in the league.
NewEra Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 1332079947[/url]' post='2413218']What is with he Left Tackle mafia around here lately? LT is NOT the 2nd most important position in the game. Not even close. Joe Thomas, Jake Long, Michael Roos and Jason Peters are the consensus best tackles year after year in the NFL and they never take their teams to the playoffs. A QB who makes quick decisions and has good pocket presence makes his Oline look a lot better. Here is a stat for you. There hasn't been a OT picked in the first round to start in the super bowl in since 2007. Great teams pick impact players up near the top of the draft. ^^^^ this is how I feel. I'm not saying I would hate drafting a LT in the 1st. I'd be ok with drafting Glenn or Martin. I'm not a big fan of Reiff though. I would prefer to go WR (if we don't add any via free agency) or DE/OLB. I wouldn't be upset of we took Kirkpatrick either (I believe Claiborne will be off the board). I fee we need a player that can step in and great player for us the next 5+ years, whether it's a LT, WR, DE, OLB or even cb. If we can add a great player, I'll be happy.
3rdand12 Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 This gentle folks is a thread that has hit all the issues in acquiring. or not. A LT whether through winding Bell back in to our boat or finding one in the draft. A great deal of very reasonable considerations indeed. great read thanks. Lt is a foundation of a very good team. Great left tackle is not necessarily going to make a very good team. So you draft one for the future not this years SB party. i mean heck there is so much more to the thinking behind this as we well know. But drafting a left tackle might be financially be best. If we could have Bell submit to an honest to good ness incentive "not sure he will go for it at all" laden contract would be best for now. if we draft one high well i will trust in Buddy and Chan for that. i think we will be good enough with Hairston, because Buddy will find another one of his "backups" from somewhere and have Chan get him up to speed. thats not been a bad thing! Also.. Big Cat? i saw the lead in and then considered it more seriously when you showed it as Andy/cordy/eric/. This is pure genius possibly. i saw mister L play admirably out there when called on. And he has said as Buddy did, he/ I will play where they put me. Just not center ok Andy? lastly after such long wind.. my point is to solve the Buffalo Bills offensive line we need to secure our left Tackle of the future and give him one to spell. then we can check off that box from our wish list away and finish up all the other tasks to be long term winners. do it now do it later it's still gotta get done.
Reed83HOF Posted March 18, 2012 Posted March 18, 2012 Matt Light was a second round pick, and is still kicking ass 11 years later. Now. I urge you to examine the first round picks of the patsies since they picked Light. http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/teams/patriots How many would you rather have than Light? My point? Light would have been worth a #10. Do you think that the patsies, as great as Brady is, would have enjoyed the same success with Langston Walker, Greg Jerman, or Bell on a gurney playing LT? I make the case that this would be an impossibility. I also once again bring up the dirty little secret of playing in the elements. This winter was great, but how about next season, and the one after that. I have been to games at RWS where passing was all but out of the question, and 2 of our divisional opponents play in the cold as well. Even in this new passing league, running will always mean just a bit more to the Bills than it does to most other teams. Exceptions? Sure, the Packers. Farve could throw through a tornado, and Rodgers looks like he will be in the hall of fame. This post is not to dismiss yours as rubbish. You DO raise some valid points. I just think that it isn't as simple as you present it, and I believe that a top quality LT would be a HUGE boost to the Bills. Bill I have been waiting for you. We all know how you feel about drafting CBs/DBs. My question is do you see this is an area of need on our team and if so, where you would see us drafting?
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