why our 3/4 didn't work

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Teams already figured out the 34 btitzing schemes and we just didn't have good enough guys to run it.

 

"I really believe the game has changed some," he said. "Ten years ago, eight years ago, when all the fire zones and blitzes became a big, big factor, you were able to scheme and trick guys and pick up a lot of sacks because offenses weren't ready to handle it. Now the good offenses are."

 

"You've got to attack a protection and make 'em block you one on one," Wannstedt said. "If you have good enough players, better players, and they win one on one, you get sacks and pressure. If your players aren't good enough, you can run the same blitzes as other teams, but you aren't going to get the pressures." Dave Wannstedt

 

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article769045.ece?twobillsdrive

[jjmac]

A lack of quality 3-4 talent was the biggest factor. Without that, it didn't matter what scheme we ran.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

A lack of quality 3-4 talent was the biggest factor. Without that, it didn't matter what scheme we ran.

 

There is the question of talent.

 

I personally think we could have done better with what we had. I believe the hybrid 3-4, 4-3 scheme we were running was too complicated and required the players to do too much thinking.

They had different roles depending on the pre-snap read and then their own read post snap and if they weren't all on the same page it left gaps.

We had young players and a constantly changing cast due to injuries. I believe they could have done better if they were told "here's your role, that's your guy, 'sic 'em"

 

But that's just me.

[truth on hold]

I barfed when the incoming Gailey said we'd be switching to 3-4. I knew we didn't have the personell and I knew it wasnt the miracle cure he thought it was.

 

The staff wasted 2 years, a lot of draft picks and free agent moves figuring that out too. Just kind of po'd a novice like me could see so clearly what all the "experts" we hired couldn't.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack

[vincec]

Well since the top 5 defenses in the NFL last season were 3-4s I don't see how you can say that the 3-4 has been passed by.

 

I think that what Wannstadt is expressing is his long standing belief that you can't fool the top offenses with blitzes. You need to be able to beat them 1 v 1. I've heard him express this view from back in his Dallas days so I don't think it's a new development.

[truth on hold]

2 of last 3 and 4 of last 6 super bowls have been won by teams with 4-3 defenses. The only true 3-4 winner was steelers, because packers showed a lot of other looks out of their base 3-4. It's an even split over the last 10 super bowls with 5 wins each (bucs, colts, giants 2x and saints), 3 - 4 (2 apiece steelers and pats, pack 1)

 

When you look at really matters, rings and how does the D hold up in post season, the notion of 3 - 4 superiority is quickly dismissed.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack

[John Cocktosten]

Spencer Johnson, Danny Batten, Chris Kelsay, Arhtur Moats and Shawn Merriman playing OLB were the reason that it didn't work. Nothing more, nothing less.

[chris heff]

The NY Giants own the Patriots and the reason is they get to Brady rushing four. The Bills success stats with consistently beating The Patriots.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Spencer Johnson, Danny Batten, Chris Kelsay, Arhtur Moats and Shawn Merriman playing OLB were the reason that it didn't work. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Any scheme with Spencer Johnson and Chris Kelsay playing OLB is a bad scheme

 

It's not that they're bad players...they're competent and they went hard. They just AREN'T 3-4 OLBs

[John Cocktosten]

Any scheme with Spencer Johnson and Chris Kelsay playing OLB is a bad scheme

 

It's not that they're bad players...they're competent and they went hard. They just AREN'T 3-4 OLBs

 

That has always been my major criticism of Buddy. He wanted the 3-4 but he never payed attention to the most important position. He counted on a chronically injured has been, converted 5 techinique DE's and a bunch of 5th round D3 players to fill the role of "our" Demarcus Ware. It was unfair to even put guys like Johnson and Carrington at OLB in the first place but that's what happens when you ignore an obvious problem. Hopefully Buddy learned a lesson...we'll see come the draft.

[San-O]

Spencer Johnson, Danny Batten, Chris Kelsay, Arhtur Moats and Shawn Merriman playing OLB were the reason that it didn't work. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

 

 

Sorry, I couldn't let a good opportunity to rip Kelsay pass.

 

He's not good. His poor play is concealed much better when he doesn't have to move as much, like playing LDE. He can just

stay there and not make plays by not moving, instead of not making plays by having to chase people around.

 

 

That has always been my major criticism of Buddy. He wanted the 3-4 but he never payed attention to the most important position. He counted on a chronically injured has been, converted 5 techinique DE's and a bunch of 5th round D3 players to fill the role of "our" Demarcus Ware. It was unfair to even put guys like Johnson and Carrington at OLB in the first place but that's what happens when you ignore an obvious problem. Hopefully Buddy learned a lesson...we'll see come the draft.

 

 

Why does our 60-something year old G.M./head coach need two years to learn on the job?

[NoSaint]

I barfed when the incoming Gailey said we'd be switching to 3-4. I knew we didn't have the personell and I knew it wasnt the miracle cure he thought it was.

 

The staff wasted 2 years, a lot of draft picks and free agent moves figuring that out too. Just kind of po'd a novice like me could see so clearly what all the "experts" we hired couldn't.

It wasnt supposed to be a one season turnaround. The problem was that the players they needed never became available while some 43 guys (dareus, Barnett, Morrison and now Mario) and coaches (wannstedt) did. I think it was a case of not getting access to the resources they needed.

[John Cocktosten]

Why does our 60-something year old G.M./head coach need two years to learn on the job?

 

You better be careful SoCal, Buddy is walking on water right now which means the TBD are monitoring your every word.

[San-O]

You better be careful SoCal, Buddy is walking on water right now which means the TBD are monitoring your every word.

 

 

Yikes, thanks 'Tosten.

 

I forgot.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Well since the top 5 defenses in the NFL last season were 3-4s I don't see how you can say that the 3-4 has been passed by.

 

I think that what Wannstadt is expressing is his long standing belief that you can't fool the top offenses with blitzes. You need to be able to beat them 1 v 1. I've heard him express this view from back in his Dallas days so I don't think it's a new development.

Bingo. Which is in stark contrast to some suggestions that Wannstedt-in-charge means the Bills would be rolling with the exotic blitz of the minute club...

 

Spencer Johnson, Danny Batten, Chris Kelsay, Arhtur Moats and Shawn Merriman playing OLB were the reason that it didn't work. Nothing more, nothing less.

True. Pretty weak group overall.

[DrDawkinstein]

I think it had less to do with player personnel and way more to do with Defensive Coordinator. And how that DC used the personnel he had available.

 

If you make Spencer Johnson and Kelsay OLBs, it's not their fault they can't play the position. That's like saying it's your goldfish's fault for not being a good dog because you throw the frisbee and it never fetches.

 

I like what Wanny said about Blitzing. Blitzing in today's NFL just guarantees the good QB will find the open man and burn you.

[Sisyphean Bills]

If you make Spencer Johnson and Kelsay OLBs, it's not their fault they can't play the position. That's like saying it's your goldfish's fault for not being a good dog because you throw the frisbee and it never fetches.

 

(BTW, I wouldn't entirely fault Edwards on this. He wasn't the one that decided Shawne Merriman was more than enough.)

[offyourocker]

I barfed when the incoming Gailey said we'd be switching to 3-4. I knew we didn't have the personell and I knew it wasnt the miracle cure he thought it was.

 

The staff wasted 2 years, a lot of draft picks and free agent moves figuring that out too. Just kind of po'd a novice like me could see so clearly what all the "experts" we hired couldn't.

 

 

So True

[JohnC]

I think it had less to do with player personnel and way more to do with Defensive Coordinator. And how that DC used the personnel he had available.

 

If you make Spencer Johnson and Kelsay OLBs, it's not their fault they can't play the position. That's like saying it's your goldfish's fault for not being a good dog because you throw the frisbee and it never fetches.

 

I like what Wanny said about Blitzing. Blitzing in today's NFL just guarantees the good QB will find the open man and burn you.

 

You don't have to be a genius to figure out that smart coaches play to players' strengths and not weaknesses. When you have less talent and coach it down the results are very predictable. A good system is a system that maximizes the talents of players on hand.

 

The idea of having Kelsay or Carrington playing in open space as LBs is an absurdity.

[NoSaint]

 

(BTW, I wouldn't entirely fault Edwards on this. He wasn't the one that decided Shawne Merriman was more than enough.)

Even if you blame nix - the only chance we missed was maybe Brooks reed vs Aaron Williams? We never had the shot at the talent you'd expect