Soccer question

[bbb]

Sorry to you soccer fans about the player who collapsed. I hope he makes it.

 

I saw it on the front page of espn.com but just don't know how big of a name player this guy is. I'm frankly a little perturbed at espn at trying to shove soccer down on our throats. I know it is their corporate goal - and they have another big sport to monopolize in the US.

 

Like I said, I have no idea if he is well known, or even the level of this competition. I just found out last year that the same team can be in the Premier League and the Champions League at the same time........They also play for different cups during these seasons, as well?

[ajzepp]

Wow, I hadn't seen that...probably another example of a young kid who didn't know he had a congenital heart issue until it went bad...if they had to code him on the field, that's not good.

 

And yep, countries like Germany, England, Italy, Spain, and others have their own national leagues. The best teams from those leagues qualify for the Champions League the following year. The Champions League final is one of the "must see" sporting events of the year for me.

[bbb]

Wow, I hadn't seen that...probably another example of a young kid who didn't know he had a congenital heart issue until it went bad...if they had to code him on the field, that's not good.

 

And yep, countries like Germany, England, Italy, Spain, and others have their own national leagues. The best teams from those leagues qualify for the Champions League the following year. The Champions League final is one of the "must see" sporting events of the year for me.

 

So, what was this FA Cup that he was playing in?

[John Adams]

Think of it this way. There are leagues, usually within a country, like the English Premiere League, Series A in Italy, or MLS here. Some of those league teams, based on their success, play in multinational round robin or elimination style international tournaments like the Champions League.

With so many great teams in the world, it allows fans to see how their teams stack up against other teams in other leagues. It's why soccer has such an international flavor.

 

ESPN has horrible soccer coverage. Strange to hear someone complaining about them shoving it down your throat. Their soccer page is a joke.

[ajzepp]

So, what was this FA Cup that he was playing in?

 

That's one tourney I don't even pay attention to...not sure how it works, I just know it's only for the English leagues (pretty sure anyway).

 

Think of it this way. There are leagues, usually within a country, like the English Premiere League, Series A in Italy, or MLS here. Some of those league teams, based on their success, play in multinational round robin or elimination style international tournaments like the Champions League.

With so many great teams in the world, it allows fans to see how their teams stack up against other teams in other leagues. It's why soccer has such an international flavor.

 

ESPN has horrible soccer coverage. Strange to hear someone complaining about them shoving it down your throat. Their soccer page is a joke.

 

Best soccer blog on the planet, IMO: http://www.soccerbyives.net/

[bbb]

Think of it this way. There are leagues, usually within a country, like the English Premiere League, Series A in Italy, or MLS here. Some of those league teams, based on their success, play in multinational round robin or elimination style international tournaments like the Champions League.

With so many great teams in the world, it allows fans to see how their teams stack up against other teams in other leagues. It's why soccer has such an international flavor.

 

ESPN has horrible soccer coverage. Strange to hear someone complaining about them shoving it down your throat. Their soccer page is a joke.

 

I guess what I'm going by is a few things. All of a sudden after espn signs their world cup contract, then Colin Cowherd and Bill Simmons are all of a sudden big soccer fans. Of course, the day after the World Cup, it was a rare day that I listened to Cowherd and it didn't even talk about. How is that even possible - you're a big fan, but you don't even talk about the championship game the next day?

 

I also listen to Tony Kornheiser and one day in the last year, he said "I'm not exactly giving out state secrets by saying espn is pushing soccer - so that they can have more summer programming and be the go to network for it"

 

And, in the past year or so, having one of the front page espn headlines talking about something that I have no idea what they are talking about...So, I click the link and it inevitably is some kind of soccer thing. They didn't used to put up stuff about English soccer leagues and such.

[ajzepp]

Soccer is the Buffalo Bills of the sports world...it never gets any respect, but for those who take the time to appreciate it it's a lot of fun

 

Cowherd and ESPN talk about the Bills reluctantly, as well

[bbb]

Soccer is the Buffalo Bills of the sports world...it never gets any respect, but for those who take the time to appreciate it it's a lot of fun

 

Cowherd and ESPN talk about the Bills reluctantly, as well

 

I try to like it, and I got into both World Cups, even though there is not as many scoring chances as I would like. My niece plays college soccer and she's a goalie, I guess a keeper you would call it. And, I'd go to her high school, etc. games and expect to see some Ryan Miller type stuff but she'd have like 3 shots on goal!

 

And, then this whole European thing just is so confusing to somebody like me. Last year when Manchester won the Premier championship and then a few weeks later, they're playing the Champions League championship. I'm like What - didn't they just win the championship.

 

It's like the Bills playing in the CFL at the same time and having an Olympics in the middle and play as a team, and then also have the national team. And, these loans, etc. Man, is that what happens when countries basically have one sport?!?

[ajzepp]

I try to like it, and I got into both World Cups, even though there is not as many scoring chances as I would like. My niece plays college soccer and she's a goalie, I guess a keeper you would call it. And, I'd go to her high school, etc. games and expect to see some Ryan Miller type stuff but she'd have like 3 shots on goal!

 

And, then this whole European thing just is so confusing to somebody like me. Last year when Manchester won the Premier championship and then a few weeks later, they're playing the Champions League championship. I'm like What - didn't they just win the championship.

 

It's like the Bills playing in the CFL at the same time and having an Olympics in the middle and play as a team, and then also have the national team. And, these loans, etc. Man, is that what happens when countries basically have one sport?!?

 

It really does get confusing. I was confused as hell when I first started trying to make sense of it. Basically I tend to just focus on the Premiership in England and the Champs League. Champs League is some great futbal.

 

I honestly give you credit for trying to give it a chance...I started playing when I was 4 y.o., so I don't know if the game is just in my blood or what, but I love nearly everything about it. I do understand the criticism that there aren't enough scoring chances, especially since we Americans are so accustomed to "money offense" in the NBA, NFL, NHL, etc. It is definitely a tough transition for us to go from our American sports with high scoring to one that is a bit less prolific. At the same time, most soccer matches are very streamlined and finish up in about 2hr. It's typically far less in terms of the time investment it requires

[bbb]

It really does get confusing. I was confused as hell when I first started trying to make sense of it. Basically I tend to just focus on the Premiership in England and the Champs League. Champs League is some great futbal.

 

I honestly give you credit for trying to give it a chance...I started playing when I was 4 y.o., so I don't know if the game is just in my blood or what, but I love nearly everything about it. I do understand the criticism that there aren't enough scoring chances, especially since we Americans are so accustomed to "money offense" in the NBA, NFL, NHL, etc. It is definitely a tough transition for us to go from our American sports with high scoring to one that is a bit less prolific. At the same time, most soccer matches are very streamlined and finish up in about 2hr. It's typically far less in terms of the time investment it requires

 

Yeah, I do love the time aspect of it!

[Alaska Darin]

It's typically far less in terms of the time investment it requires

Plus, you can sleep through 98% of it and not miss a damn thing. Talk about killing 2 birds with one stone!

 

Soccer: You're only going to be bored for 2 hours!

[John Adams]

1332043237[/url]' post='2413084']

I guess what I'm going by is a few things. All of a sudden after espn signs their world cup contract, then Colin Cowherd and Bill Simmons are all of a sudden big soccer fans. Of course, the day after the World Cup, it was a rare day that I listened to Cowherd and it didn't even talk about. How is that even possible - you're a big fan, but you don't even talk about the championship game the next day?

 

I also listen to Tony Kornheiser and one day in the last year, he said "I'm not exactly giving out state secrets by saying espn is pushing soccer - so that they can have more summer programming and be the go to network for it"

 

And, in the past year or so, having one of the front page espn headlines talking about something that I have no idea what they are talking about...So, I click the link and it inevitably is some kind of soccer thing. They didn't used to put up stuff about English soccer leagues and such.

 

ESPN radio, we guarantee a commercial every 7 minutes. I don't listen. If you click on their main soccer page, it's weak, with the coverage even weaker. They do carry mre games now, which is an upgrade over baseball.

[ajzepp]

Plus, you can sleep through 98% of it and not miss a damn thing. Talk about killing 2 birds with one stone!

 

Soccer: You're only going to be bored for 2 hours!

 

[Britbillsfan]

I try to like it, and I got into both World Cups, even though there is not as many scoring chances as I would like. My niece plays college soccer and she's a goalie, I guess a keeper you would call it. And, I'd go to her high school, etc. games and expect to see some Ryan Miller type stuff but she'd have like 3 shots on goal!

 

And, then this whole European thing just is so confusing to somebody like me. Last year when Manchester won the Premier championship and then a few weeks later, they're playing the Champions League championship. I'm like What - didn't they just win the championship.

 

It's like the Bills playing in the CFL at the same time and having an Olympics in the middle and play as a team, and then also have the national team. And, these loans, etc. Man, is that what happens when countries basically have one sport?!?

A few replies to your questions.

 

The F A Cup is the oldest tournament in Football, dating from the 1870s, and runs in a straightforward knock-out format. It is open to English and some Welsh clubs, including many amateur teams. The big teams do not enter until a lot later in the tournament (when they will typically dominate, although occassionally an amateur team will defeat a premier league outfit - part of the tournament's appeal). Until quite recently (probably the 1980s) it was considered the tournament to win by players. Since then it haws been superceded by the Premier League and the European competitions.

 

The Premier League is the English league, which Manchester United won last year (again - they have been the real powerhouse of English clubs for the last couple of decades).

 

The European Champions League takes the best clubs from the various national leagues (eg: England, Scotland, Italy, Spain, Germany, etc, etc) from the previous year and these play each other throughout the system in a hybrid league/knock-out format. Smaller leagues have less clubs, and again the bigger clubs do not enter the tournament until much later than the teams from less potent leagues.

 

A top club can easily play 60 games a season, often two games a week.

 

And finally, we do have other team sports. In winter there is also Rugby Union, the sport from which the American/Canadian form of football is derived from, well worth a look, IMO. A lot smaller than soccer, but plenty of people follow it and the top games (cup finals, internationals) can have 50-80,000 crowds. We also have cricket in the summer, although if you think football is boring you will likely not have much fun with cricket (I love cricket and do not find it boring, BTW. Cricket is also a great way of spending a day drinking beer. Or, in longer format games, the best part of a week drinking beer) and Rugby League.

[UConn James]

I try to like it, and I got into both World Cups, even though there is not as many scoring chances as I would like. My niece plays college soccer and she's a goalie, I guess a keeper you would call it. And, I'd go to her high school, etc. games and expect to see some Ryan Miller type stuff but she'd have like 3 shots on goal!

 

And, then this whole European thing just is so confusing to somebody like me. Last year when Manchester won the Premier championship and then a few weeks later, they're playing the Champions League championship. I'm like What - didn't they just win the championship.

 

It's like the Bills playing in the CFL at the same time and having an Olympics in the middle and play as a team, and then also have the national team. And, these loans, etc. Man, is that what happens when countries basically have one sport?!?

 

These things really keep me from getting into soccer any more than rabidly watching the World Cup.

 

When you've got like 10 "championship" games a season, what the hell does it mean? What is the importance? Why call things "championships" when it's not the end game?

 

I mean, with the Super Bowl, that's it. You win it or you don't. Now, I get the MLS; there's a season, a playoffs, and there's a championship. It's self-contained. What happens in Europe with different schedules being played simultaneously (and with "friendlies" and nationals mixed in for EXTRA confusion) is like Calvinball.

 

The closest correlation we have, I guess, is college football. And there's a reason why the vast majority of people want it to become a standardized playoff rather than the mish-mosh of agreements of the Big-10 #4 vs. SEC #6 and the free-for-all "invitations" and all that. We just want it fairer and simplified a bit, is all.

 

And, AJ, just as a note... Before you go into an explanation of the different levels and all that, it's probably not worth your time, bro.

Edited March 18, 2012 by UConn James

[Alaska Darin]

Calvinball.

That would be true - except Calvinball is interesting.

[bbb]

These things really keep me from getting into soccer any more than rabidly watching the World Cup.

 

When you've got like 10 "championship" games a season, what the hell does it mean? What is the importance? Why call things "championships" when it's not the end game?

 

I mean, with the Super Bowl, that's it. You win it or you don't. Now, I get the MLS; there's a season, a playoffs, and there's a championship. It's self-contained. What happens in Europe with different schedules being played simultaneously (and with "friendlies" and nationals mixed in for EXTRA confusion) is like Calvinball.

 

This is what I'm saying. With all these different championships and Cups with the same club teams and then the same thing going on with the national teams. I get the World Cup, but then they throw out the Confederation Cup I think and other like that, and how am I supposed to know if these are important or not, esp. when espn and following somebody like Nick Mendola on twitter they make it seem like every one of these is the be all end all.

[Wayne Cubed]

This is what I'm saying. With all these different championships and Cups with the same club teams and then the same thing going on with the national teams. I get the World Cup, but then they throw out the Confederation Cup I think and other like that, and how am I supposed to know if these are important or not, esp. when espn and following somebody like Nick Mendola on twitter they make it seem like every one of these is the be all end all.

 

I can't blame you, I just moved over here to England from the states. It's hard to follow. Along with all these championships, there are about 4 football leagues and teams move up and down depending on how they play during the season. The Barclays Preimership being the highest. Then certain teams play in the champions cup, which I figure is like determining the best team in Europe. But its confusing cause that goes on the same time as their regular matches.

 

Rugby leagues are just as confusing. They switch back and forth between what type of rugby they play.

 

As far as the player you asked about Muamba. From what I can tell he wasn't a dominant player and played on a middle tier type team. But he is respected because from all accounts he's been through quite a bit in his life, being from the Congo.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Wayne Cubed

[Ramius]

From what i can tell, english soccer leagues are basically like the yankees playing in AA ball, AAA ball, and the majors all during the same season, but where 158/162 games end 0-0.

[Cugalabanza]

I love soccer. And I think it’s cool the way the European leagues work with all the different competitions. Gives the fans more to cheer for.

 

Just take the English leagues as an example...

 

You can win your league’s regular season title by finishing with the best record (most points). Huge deal.

 

You can win the league cup (For the English Premier League, it’s called the Carling Cup), which is a tournament played in the early part of their season. This is considered more of a minor competition, I think because it’s played early in the year. The top teams don’t necessarily put all their energy into this competition. As a result, the lower tier teams have a better shot to take this title.

 

The FA cup is huge in England. It’s a tournament including all the professional clubs in England in all divisions. Even the tiny clubs get a chance to steal some glory. It’s common for lower league teams to make a run and sometimes get a huge upset. It’s a little like the English soccer version of our March Madness, except that it is spread out over the course of the season. The FA final is another huge prize, usually taken by one of the top 4 or 5 teams in the Premier League.

 

Champions league. The top 4 English teams qualify for this. Some other countries only get one or two berths, based on the relative strength of their league. The CL title is arguably the top prize in all pro soccer.

 

The UEFA cup. This is basically a second tier Champions League. I think it’s the 5th and 6th best English Premier League teams that qualify. They play the “second best” of the teams in the other European pro leagues. Basically, kind of the NIT to the NCAA tourney.

 

 

Of course there is also the idea of "relegation," where if you finish at the bottom of your league, you get bumped down to the next level. And if you are in a minor league and you win it, you get to move and play with the big boys the following year.

 

It all works to make the whole big mess full of drama and interesting for all the teams. Basically, everybody always has something meaningful to play for pretty much all the time.