3rdnlng Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 http://timesfreepress.com/news/2012/mar/02/high-gas-prices-serve-a-good-purpose/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) http://timesfreepress.com/news/2012/mar/02/high-gas-prices-serve-a-good-purpose/ http://www.theblaze.com/stories/energy-sec-steven-chu-backtracks-i-no-longer-want-europe-gas-prices/ Reconcile this Obama lovers. This is your handpicked Energy Secretary for a department that should be abolished. What has it done since it was created? Next hit will be the department of Miseducation. Edited March 14, 2012 by 3rdnlng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 http://www.theblaze.com/stories/energy-sec-steven-chu-backtracks-i-no-longer-want-europe-gas-prices/ Reconcile this Obama lovers. This is your handpicked Energy Secretary for a department that should be abolished. What has it done since it was created? Next hit will be the department of Miseducation. Keep in mind this guy Chu has the same basic attitude towards electrical power. Shutting down coal plants all over even in Cali where we have a stressed out grid already. One right here in Conta Costa. So basically they dislike but tolerate some coal plants. And no way they are going to build dams and absolutely no way they are going nuclear. Whats left? Friggen windmills? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Keep in mind this guy Chu has the same basic attitude towards electrical power. Shutting down coal plants all over even in Cali where we have a stressed out grid already. One right here in Conta Costa. So basically they dislike but tolerate some coal plants. And no way they are going to build dams and absolutely no way they are going nuclear. Whats left? Friggen windmills? http://hotair.com/archives/2008/11/02/obama-ill-make-energy-prices-skyrocket/ "In another clip from the same January 2008 interview with the San Francisco Chronicle in which Barack Obama promised to bankrupt anyone foolish enough to build coal-burning power plants, he also made an interesting admission about his entire energy plan. Obama told the editors that his policies would make energy prices “skyrocket” as the energy industry passed along the exorbitant costs of his cap-and-trade policy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 They were for higher energy prices before they were against it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Meanwhile gasoline demand is down 7.2% over the last 12 months, oil inventories are rising, and the Saudis say they will meet any "real" increase in demand, which isn't currently the case. My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Meanwhile gasoline demand is down 7.2% over the last 12 months, oil inventories are rising, and the Saudis say they will meet any "real" increase in demand, which isn't currently the case. My link You've gotta hand it to Obama. He knows we need to reduce our dependency on gasoline, and nothing reduces gasoline demands like a crappy economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfatbillsfan Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 http://www.theblaze.com/stories/energy-sec-steven-chu-backtracks-i-no-longer-want-europe-gas-prices/ Reconcile this Obama lovers. This is your handpicked Energy Secretary for a department that should be abolished. What has it done since it was created? Next hit will be the department of Miseducation. You're a Zealot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Meanwhile gasoline demand is down 7.2% over the last 12 months, oil inventories are rising, and the Saudis say they will meet any "real" increase in demand, which isn't currently the case. My link I presume you are saying that speculation is the reason for high gasoline prices? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I presume you are saying that speculation is the reason for high gasoline prices? Cursed are the speculators All Glory to The Benbernank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 You're a Zealot. Do you know the history of the Department of Energy? Do you know what its goals are supposed to be? Do you have any clue about any comments you make about anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Cursed are the speculators All Glory to The Benbernank "Higher" not high. And speculators are fine as long as they don't dominate markets, unlike current markets. That was meant for 3rd. Edited March 14, 2012 by TPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 "Higher" not high. And speculators are fine as long as they don't dominate markets, unlike current markets. That was meant for 3rd. But wouldn't you say that there would be less speculation in general and also specifically to guard against disruptions in the market if there was a stable source of oil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/15/us-oil-reserves-idUSBRE82E0UM20120315 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Meanwhile gasoline demand is down 7.2% over the last 12 months, oil inventories are rising, and the Saudis say they will meet any "real" increase in demand, which isn't currently the case. My link This is where your lack of knowledge in how the markets work really become more apparent. You will never understand how they truly work, simply because you're ideological view of the market clouds reason. First off, this is a global market, I've tried to tell you this countless times, but your thick skull just isn't processing this point. Second, the Saudis making up for any lost oil is a good thing, but it doesn't negate the entire price rise. YOu see, there is thing we call "excess spare capacity". The less spare oil capacity there is, the higher the prices will go. Example. (just example numbers) World Demand for oil is 85M barrels a day Current oil suppy CAPACITY is at 88M barrels a day Which doesn't mean the world is supplying 88M barrels, but just that it is capable of producing this amount Iran cuts off lets say 700k barrels a day of oil, now we have 2.3M barrels of excess spare capacity, whereas before we had 3M barrels. Even though there is still enough oil to meet our demand, but now we have less excess spare capacity, which could be wiped out or even further reduced with any other sort of supply disruptions. WHich justifiably, creates a further premium on the price of oil. Then of course there is the threat of a huge supply disruption. It is quite possible that Iran and Israel could go to war, which all sorts of problems can arise from that. For every day the strait of hormutz gets cut off, you are talking about 10M barrels of day. So the threat of that disruption creates a premium. Think of it as insurance terms, lets say auto insurance, you were driving 500 miles a month, the insurance company will give you a lower premium. Now lets say you change jobs and you are now driving 1500 miles a month, your premium has gone up. Why? Because the risk of an accident occuring has now shot up. Even though, nothing has happened yet,the price went up. Same thing with oil, no war has broke out yet, even though they did cut off oil to Europe, but no war yet. But a huge war like that could possibly shoot the price up 50% maybe even more. So the risk of that possibility starts getting bid into the price now. Maybe some producers and users believe the likelyhood of that event is 50%, so they are willing to pay a 10% premium now on the price, rather than paying 50-75% later. But you'll never understand this concept TPS, you just won't. YOu don't understand markets, you don't understand the bidding process, you don't understand the concept of premiums/insurance, You'll just never grasp this concept. In the meantime, you will just sit there on the sidelines, and just chalk it up to good old "wall street" speculation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 This is where your lack of knowledge in how the markets work really become more apparent. You will never understand how they truly work, simply because you're ideological view of the market clouds reason. First off, this is a global market, I've tried to tell you this countless times, but your thick skull just isn't processing this point. Second, the Saudis making up for any lost oil is a good thing, but it doesn't negate the entire price rise. YOu see, there is thing we call "excess spare capacity". The less spare oil capacity there is, the higher the prices will go. Example. (just example numbers) World Demand for oil is 85M barrels a day Current oil suppy CAPACITY is at 88M barrels a day Which doesn't mean the world is supplying 88M barrels, but just that it is capable of producing this amount Iran cuts off lets say 700k barrels a day of oil, now we have 2.3M barrels of excess spare capacity, whereas before we had 3M barrels. Even though there is still enough oil to meet our demand, but now we have less excess spare capacity, which could be wiped out or even further reduced with any other sort of supply disruptions. WHich justifiably, creates a further premium on the price of oil. Then of course there is the threat of a huge supply disruption. It is quite possible that Iran and Israel could go to war, which all sorts of problems can arise from that. For every day the strait of hormutz gets cut off, you are talking about 10M barrels of day. So the threat of that disruption creates a premium. Think of it as insurance terms, lets say auto insurance, you were driving 500 miles a month, the insurance company will give you a lower premium. Now lets say you change jobs and you are now driving 1500 miles a month, your premium has gone up. Why? Because the risk of an accident occuring has now shot up. Even though, nothing has happened yet,the price went up. Same thing with oil, no war has broke out yet, even though they did cut off oil to Europe, but no war yet. But a huge war like that could possibly shoot the price up 50% maybe even more. So the risk of that possibility starts getting bid into the price now. Maybe some producers and users believe the likelyhood of that event is 50%, so they are willing to pay a 10% premium now on the price, rather than paying 50-75% later. But you'll never understand this concept TPS, you just won't. YOu don't understand markets, you don't understand the bidding process, you don't understand the concept of premiums/insurance, You'll just never grasp this concept. In the meantime, you will just sit there on the sidelines, and just chalk it up to good old "wall street" speculation So , I would presume that if we went all out here in the U.S by drilling in ANWR, off shore and opened up more Federal lands we could help reduce speculation worldwide. I would assume that we would not only increase excess capacity but since we would be considered a stable supplier, that all things aside, the price of oil would drop considerably. This coupled with the use of considerably more compressed natural gas could make us much more energy independent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 This is where your lack of knowledge in how the markets work really become more apparent. You will never understand how they truly work, simply because you're ideological view of the market clouds reason. First off, this is a global market, I've tried to tell you this countless times, but your thick skull just isn't processing this point. Second, the Saudis making up for any lost oil is a good thing, but it doesn't negate the entire price rise. YOu see, there is thing we call "excess spare capacity". The less spare oil capacity there is, the higher the prices will go. Example. (just example numbers) World Demand for oil is 85M barrels a day Current oil suppy CAPACITY is at 88M barrels a day Which doesn't mean the world is supplying 88M barrels, but just that it is capable of producing this amount Iran cuts off lets say 700k barrels a day of oil, now we have 2.3M barrels of excess spare capacity, whereas before we had 3M barrels. Even though there is still enough oil to meet our demand, but now we have less excess spare capacity, which could be wiped out or even further reduced with any other sort of supply disruptions. WHich justifiably, creates a further premium on the price of oil. Then of course there is the threat of a huge supply disruption. It is quite possible that Iran and Israel could go to war, which all sorts of problems can arise from that. For every day the strait of hormutz gets cut off, you are talking about 10M barrels of day. So the threat of that disruption creates a premium. Think of it as insurance terms, lets say auto insurance, you were driving 500 miles a month, the insurance company will give you a lower premium. Now lets say you change jobs and you are now driving 1500 miles a month, your premium has gone up. Why? Because the risk of an accident occuring has now shot up. Even though, nothing has happened yet,the price went up. Same thing with oil, no war has broke out yet, even though they did cut off oil to Europe, but no war yet. But a huge war like that could possibly shoot the price up 50% maybe even more. So the risk of that possibility starts getting bid into the price now. Maybe some producers and users believe the likelyhood of that event is 50%, so they are willing to pay a 10% premium now on the price, rather than paying 50-75% later. But you'll never understand this concept TPS, you just won't. YOu don't understand markets, you don't understand the bidding process, you don't understand the concept of premiums/insurance, You'll just never grasp this concept. In the meantime, you will just sit there on the sidelines, and just chalk it up to good old "wall street" speculation Yes, yes, yes...I don't understand how market works.... Who is pricing in the risk? Who is creating the premium? Oil companies, Wall STreet banks, ETF investors, swap dealers??? I guess that means Goldman Sachs, the oil CEOs, Fed researchers, et al don't understand markets either? We are fortunate to have you here, the one person who truly does understand markets.... Dude, all you have said is that expectations influence today's price--possible outcomes in the future influence decisions and prices today--duh. That's what traders/investor/specualtors do--they make bets today about what might happen in the future. Though it seems your spin is that it's only commercial interests who can influence prices? Are you really saying that financial bets don't influence futures prices? So you disagree with GS, the ceos, and a whole slew of researchers? Oil is a financial asset now. It became a "generalized (open to a broad spectrum of investors) financial asset" beginning around 2004. By the most conservative estimates--again from Goldie, oil CEOs, et al--financial bets have added a 15% premium to oil prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Yes, yes, yes...I don't understand how market works.... Who is pricing in the risk? Who is creating the premium? Oil companies, Wall STreet banks, ETF investors, swap dealers??? I guess that means Goldman Sachs, the oil CEOs, Fed researchers, et al don't understand markets either? We are fortunate to have you here, the one person who truly does understand markets.... Dude, all you have said is that expectations influence today's price--possible outcomes in the future influence decisions and prices today--duh. That's what traders/investor/specualtors do--they make bets today about what might happen in the future. Though it seems your spin is that it's only commercial interests who can influence prices? Are you really saying that financial bets don't influence futures prices? So you disagree with GS, the ceos, and a whole slew of researchers? Oil is a financial asset now. It became a "generalized (open to a broad spectrum of investors) financial asset" beginning around 2004. By the most conservative estimates--again from Goldie, oil CEOs, et al--financial bets have added a 15% premium to oil prices. I've gone over this with you ad nauseum You are one thick skulled dude. "financial bets" play virtually NO ROLE in the overall trend of the price. Ok, let me say that again, "financial bets' PLAY NO ROLE in the overall trend of the price. NONE, zero, zilch, nada, nothing. What it has and always done, "financial speculation", is that it times adds short-term froth to the price and sometimes short-term oversold conditions. That's it, nothing else to it, plays no role whatsoever in the trajectory of prices. Hard-head, do you get that? Plays no role, nothing. Last year when you said that Obama tapping the Reservers was going to do the trick, and that is what you implied, I told you that it wouldn't. Did I not? I said that itwould impact the prices for a very short period, and you disagreed. One week later, the price was higher than before the tapping of the reserves. You just don't understand markets, period. Oh and who's adding the premium? really? Did you really just say that? You are one ignorant dude when it comes to oil. why don't you study up on your ****, on real actual data rather than articles that fit your ideology. Here is what we call a CFTC commitment of traders oil, yeah, this is real actual data. http://www.321energy.com/cots.php Look through it genius, and you tell me who is doing most of the buying and selling? Here's a hint, those "wall street speculators" you believe are the major players in the market, aren't nearly the largest entities buying oil and adding premiums to the price. Again, like I told you, you don't understand the concept of actual users and sellers of the product, purchasing their need (oil) by locking in the price today and in the future at a premium due to very real uncertainties that could lead to much higher prices moving forward. YOu just don't understand that concept. That's your problem Edited March 15, 2012 by Magox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPS Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I've gone over this with you ad nauseum You are one thick skulled dude. "financial bets" play virtually NO ROLE in the overall trend of the price. Ok, let me say that again, "financial bets' PLAY NO ROLE in the overall trend of the price. NONE, zero, zilch, nada, nothing. What it has and always done, "financial speculation", is that it times adds short-term froth to the price and sometimes short-term oversold conditions. That's it, nothing else to it, plays no role whatsoever in the trajectory of prices. Hard-head, do you get that? Plays no role, nothing. Last year when you said that Obama tapping the Reservers was going to do the trick, and that is what you implied, I told you that it wouldn't. Did I not? I said that itwould impact the prices for a very short period, and you disagreed. One week later, the price was higher than before the tapping of the reserves. You just don't understand markets, period. Oh and who's adding the premium? really? Did you really just say that? You are one ignorant dude when it comes to oil. why don't you study up on your ****, on real actual data rather than articles that fit your ideology. Here is what we call a CFTC commitment of traders oil, yeah, this is real actual data. http://www.321energy.com/cots.php Look through it genius, and you tell me who is doing most of the buying and selling? Here's a hint, those "wall street speculators" you believe are the major players in the market, aren't nearly the largest entities buying oil and adding premiums to the price. Again, like I told you, you don't understand the concept of actual users and sellers of the product, purchasing their need (oil) by locking in the price today and in the future at a premium due to very real uncertainties that could lead to much higher prices moving forward. YOu just don't understand that concept. That's your problem Maybe you should try the ACTUAL data from the CFTC--there's more detail--instead of some secondary source like you posted. Check and see how much of the NYMEX market for crude (Code 067651) is made up of actual commercial interests, then tell me how financial players don't influence prices. Can't wait to see how you spin this one... And I'm not denying that the underlying S&D is the most important factor. What's happened is that asset allocation toward commodities, especially oil, is creating greater distortion. Do they add a permanent 15%? No. They cause prices to overshoot for longer periods and they create more volatility. CFTC COT ACTUAL data And in case you missed it, here's the data that Bernie Sanders released which shows holdings of crude futures at the height of the 2008 bubble. Check the largest holders. Yes, someone is blinded by ideology here... Sanders' leaked data Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Maybe you should try the ACTUAL data from the CFTC--there's more detail--instead of some secondary source like you posted. Check and see how much of the NYMEX market for crude (Code 067651) is made up of actual commercial interests, then tell me how financial players don't influence prices. Can't wait to see how you spin this one... And I'm not denying that the underlying S&D is the most important factor. What's happened is that asset allocation toward commodities, especially oil, is creating greater distortion. Do they add a permanent 15%? No. They cause prices to overshoot for longer periods and they create more volatility. CFTC COT ACTUAL data And in case you missed it, here's the data that Bernie Sanders released which shows holdings of crude futures at the height of the 2008 bubble. Check the largest holders. Yes, someone is blinded by ideology here... Sanders' leaked data Speaking of Sanders, here's a little diddy on him. Sure hope he had nothing to do with the data. "A senior Vermont Congressman (Bernie Sanders) called, furious about a Florida package we did. I asked what was wrong with the vacation in Orlando . He said he was expecting an ocean-view room. I tried to explain that's not possible, since Orlando is in the middle of the state. He replied, 'Don't lie to me!, I looked on the map, and Florida is a very THIN state!!'' (OMG)" This was from a travel agent. I have no idea if there is any truth to it but thought it could be either him or Joe Biden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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