game change

[birdog1960]

anybody seen it? read the book it's based on? i thought it was captivating (the movie, haven't read the book yet). not sure how historically accurate the insider stuff was but the producers stated that 25 insider consultants independently confirmed most of the scenes. 2 of the main characters, steve schmidt and nicole wallace have fully endorsed the authenticity of the depiction. the real indictment in the movie is of the game itself. cynical and calculating shouldn't be the most important attributes of president makers but we all know they are. this movie just brings it to life with the production quality i've come to expect from hbo.

[IDBillzFan]

I cancelled HBO about three years ago, so can you tell me if anyone from HBO explained why a book written about the 2008 Democratic primary, Republican primary, and ultimately the 2008 presidential election become a made-for-TV movie about Sarah Palin?

 

Ah. Maybe it's going to be a three-part series. Maybe the next series will be the part about Obama vs. Clinton.

 

Yeah. I'm sure that's probably what they're doing.

[3rdnlng]

I cancelled HBO about three years ago, so can you tell me if anyone from HBO explained why a book written about the 2008 Democratic primary, Republican primary, and ultimately the 2008 presidential election become a made-for-TV movie about Sarah Palin?

 

Ah. Maybe it's going to be a three-part series. Maybe the next series will be the part about Obama vs. Clinton.

 

Yeah. I'm sure that's probably what they're doing.

 

Yes, and they didn't even interview any of the main figures. Birdog loves it for one reason and one reason only---it's partisan.

[birdog1960]

Yes, and they didn't even interview any of the main figures. Birdog loves it for one reason and one reason only---it's partisan.

maybe yall should actually see it before passing judgement? i came away with a new found respect for mccain. palin , as anyone with a shred of objectivity knew, was as clueless as most of her followers (i went back and read the transcript of the couric interview ). it painted her as a loving mom with too much ambition for her own good and way too little knowledge.

 

concerning the choice to only use a portion of the book, i think it boils down to viewers and demographics. is it really a big story that hillary could be a sullen B word? that john edwards was contemptible? are they likely to ever run for elected office again? it looks like the hbo execs were right: plenty of viewers and even more buzz.

 

lastly, it's not partisan if it's true. the criticism i've seen right wing partisan commentators make about this movie is not it's accuracy but how upset they are that campaign staff could be disloyal...as if they are the paramount of virtue.

Edited March 13, 2012 by birdog1960

[/dev/null]

I cancelled HBO after the season finale of Boardwalk Empire and picked up Starz so I can watch Spartacus. I'll pick HBO back up when Boardwalk Empire is back

[3rdnlng]

maybe yall should actually see it before passing judgement? i came away with a new found respect for mccain. palin , as anyone with a shred of objectivity knew, was as clueless as most of her followers (i went back and read the transcript of the couric interview ). it painted her as a loving mom with too much ambition for her own good and way too little knowledge.

 

concerning the choice to only use a portion of the book, i think it boils down to viewers and demographics. is it really a big story that hillary could be a sullen B word? that john edwards was contemptible? are they likely to ever run for elected office again? it looks like the hbo execs were right: plenty of viewers and even more buzz.

 

lastly, it's not partisan if it's true. the criticism i've seen right wing partisan commentators make about this movie is not it's accuracy but how upset they are that campaign staff could be disloyal...as if they are the paramount of virtue.

 

 

I love you guys that still bash Palin for being clueless by projection while praising Obama, who was clueless when he entered office and is still clueless after 3+ years of on the job training. You Obama supporters have no credibility whatsoever.

[GG]

I love you guys that still bash Palin for being clueless by projection while praising Obama, who was clueless when he entered office and is still clueless after 3+ years of on the job training. You Obama supporters have no credibility whatsoever.

 

It's a different form of clueless.

[B-Man]

Well, the absolute "main" scene of the movie..........."Go out and get me a game changer, get me a woman"

 

Only John McCain and Schmidt were there...............and McCain says it never happened.

 

This liberal myth that Gov. Palin nomination hurt the campaign continues to be pushed, It was only 4 years ago, we all know that McCain was leading until he did his "suspend the campaign" nonsense to go back to DC and work on the budget.

 

 

.

[Oxrock]

maybe yall should actually see it before passing judgement? i came away with a new found respect for mccain. palin , as anyone with a shred of objectivity knew, was as clueless as most of her followers (i went back and read the transcript of the couric interview ). it painted her as a loving mom with too much ambition for her own good and way too little knowledge.

 

concerning the choice to only use a portion of the book, i think it boils down to viewers and demographics. is it really a big story that hillary could be a sullen B word? that john edwards was contemptible? are they likely to ever run for elected office again? it looks like the hbo execs were right: plenty of viewers and even more buzz.

 

lastly, it's not partisan if it's true. the criticism i've seen right wing partisan commentators make about this movie is not it's accuracy but how upset they are that campaign staff could be disloyal...as if they are the paramount of virtue.

 

I tell you what... watch Sarah Palin's: The Undefeated (on NetFlix) with the same "objectivity" and I'll watch game change when it's available on a non-subscription station.

 

(note: The Undefeated is really a stupid name for the documentary and I only subscribe to SHO, I need my Dexter, Shameless, and the Big "C" fixes).

Edited March 13, 2012 by Oxrock

[IDBillzFan]

maybe yall should actually see it before passing judgement? i came away with a new found respect for mccain. palin , as anyone with a shred of objectivity knew, was as clueless as most of her followers (i went back and read the transcript of the couric interview ). it painted her as a loving mom with too much ambition for her own good and way too little knowledge.

 

concerning the choice to only use a portion of the book, i think it boils down to viewers and demographics. is it really a big story that hillary could be a sullen B word? that john edwards was contemptible? are they likely to ever run for elected office again? it looks like the hbo execs were right: plenty of viewers and even more buzz.

 

lastly, it's not partisan if it's true. the criticism i've seen right wing partisan commentators make about this movie is not it's accuracy but how upset they are that campaign staff could be disloyal...as if they are the paramount of virtue.

First, I wasn't passing judgement on the movie. I simply asked a question about why they opted to only focus on one third of the book. Not surprisingly, your answer is, essentially, ridiculous. I'd be willing to bet HBO would make a lot of money doing a story about John Edwards, but I won't hold my breath given he all but had to be filmed having sex with a mistress in front of his dying wife for anyone other than the Enquirer to cover the story.

 

But Palin? Now there's a story! "GET ME A WOMAN!"

[jjamie12]

I've watched the entire thing and have watched large chunks of it probably 3-4 other times. It 'seems' just WAY over the top. For example: I have a hard time believing that a Governor would have ZERO idea of what the Fed is. I'm sure she couldn't tell you exactly how they conduct monetary policy, (For the record: It was clear to me during the campaign that John McCain had NO idea what he was talking about with respect to the economic crisis.) but the movie made it seem like she never heard of it before (thinking the 'Fed' was short for the Federal Government).

 

I didn't find the movie 'partisan'. I thought John McCain came off extremely well in the movie, as did the major senior advisers. I felt it made Palin look like a decent person who got caught up in something she was absolutely not ready for -- It would have taken a remarkable amount of self-awareness (and confidence) to turn down the VP nominee if you were Palin.

 

I hadn't heard or read about the independent confirmation from the 24 (or whatever) advisors verifying the scenes. I wouldn't be shocked to find out that the two main advisors in the movie (Steve Scmidt and Nicole Wallace) would 'lie' to make Palin look as bad as possible, since it that 'helps' them. I also wouldn't be shocked if the movie were an absolute dead-on-balls-accurate portrait of Gov. Palin during that time.

 

Did you guys know that Alaska's population is smaller than Erie County (Personally, I was shocked to find that out)? Anyone think Chris Collins or Mark Poloncarz should be given the legitimacy Palin was given? Think either of them are qualified to be VP?

[birdog1960]

Well, the absolute "main" scene of the movie..........."Go out and get me a game changer, get me a woman"

 

Only John McCain and Schmidt were there...............and McCain says it never happened.

 

This liberal myth that Gov. Palin nomination hurt the campaign continues to be pushed, It was only 4 years ago, we all know that McCain was leading until he did his "suspend the campaign" nonsense to go back to DC and work on the budget.

 

 

.

i'm not convinced she hurt the campaign...pretty certain she would have hurt the country but it's implied they would have tried to keep her on a short leash. the scary thing to me is that she may have helped by shoring up the base. in my mind, that implies very bad judgement on the bases part.

 

sorry, but comparing obama to palin is just silly. articulate us senator, ivy league law degree, well versed on complicated national and international issues versus mayor of a small town, governer of alaska who reportedly didn't know the function of the federal reserve.

 

i will watch the netflix feed with special interest on how schmidt and wallace are portrayed.

 

and i didn't take that as the main scene of the movie. i thought the scenes illustrating palin's complete lack of knowledge were much more important.

Edited March 13, 2012 by birdog1960

[John Adams]

I've watched the entire thing and have watched large chunks of it probably 3-4 other times. It 'seems' just WAY over the top. For example: I have a hard time believing that a Governor would have ZERO idea of what the Fed is. ...

Did you guys know that Alaska's population is smaller than Erie County (Personally, I was shocked to find that out)? Anyone think Chris Collins or Mark Poloncarz should be given the legitimacy Palin was given? Think either of them are qualified to be VP?

 

I didn't see the movie nor will I.

 

I bet the majority of Congress can't explain what the Fed is. I see no reason why a small state governor who was never the brightest bulb would know much about it.

Edited March 13, 2012 by John Adams

[IDBillzFan]

sorry, but comparing obama to palin is just silly.

Completely agree. I'm no Palin fan. I genuinely find her speech pattern very annoying, and while I don't subscribe to the fact that she's a total dumbass, I refuse to believe she's smarter than the average bear. And comparing her Obama to her is ridiculous if for no other reason, Palin has been known to have some balls.

[/dev/null]

It's a different form of clueless.

Of course it's different. When a Democrat is totally unprepared and unqualified for a position, they're bringing a fresh perspective. Hope and Chnage, a different kind of politician and all that

 

When any non-member of The People's party is totally unprepared and unqualified for a position, it's a danger to American society. Black folks will be forced back into slavery. Air pollution around the world will be like sucking on a car exhaust pipe. Rich people will eat poor babies and crap dollar coins for Haliburton. Gramma will be thrown off a cliff and Big Oil® execs will fill their swimming pools full of $1k bills

[B-Man]

 

lastly, it's not partisan if it's true. the criticism i've seen right wing partisan commentators make about this movie is not it's accuracy but how upset they are that campaign staff could be disloyal...as if they are the paramount of virtue.

 

 

Sorry, accuracy IS a problem.

 

We are to accept Mr Schmidt's version while a majority of other eyewitnesses call it fiction.

 

'Game Change' Fallout: Sarah Palin 11 - HBO 1

 

by John Nolte

 

By my count, including Governor Palin, who's gone on the record with various statements and her own fact-checked-to-death autobiography, "Going Rogue," we now have 11 people -- 10 of them on the record -- who were there during the campaign and who vigorously and openly dispute the malicious way in which the Governor is portrayed in HBO's "Game Change."

The most important thing to remember, is that a few of these individuals did speak to the "Game Change" authors and screenwriter, but rather than take the word of those willing to speak out in the open, those writers CHOSE instead to take the word of those who refused to go on the record.

 

{snip}

 

Jason Recher:

"I was with Sarah Palin by her side at every event on every flight on every bus trip up until a week following the election when I departed Alaska, returned to Washington to resume my role at the White House.

 

Game Change writer, Danny Strong, reached out to me as a pro-Palin person in early 2001 to get my help with his movie script. We spoke briefly. He asked me if the book Game Change accurately reflected my time with the McCain campaign. I told him absolutely, unequivocally, it did not".

 

 

Randy Scheunemann (who is portrayed in "Game Change," but in a way he doesn’t recognize as truth):

"As many of you know in 2007-2008, I was Director of Foreign Policy and National Security for the McCain and then McCain/Palin campaign. I had several periods of intense interaction with the governor both in terms of two or three days at the convention, briefing her on John McCain’s foreign policy views and also in playing a role in debate preparation particularly in Sedona, Arizona in the four or five days before the debate where I played the role of Senator Joe Biden.

 

What we have here, and like Jason, I spoke to Danny Strong—I actually spoke to Mark Halperin over a couple of different periods, was very disappointed when I read the book, was reluctant to talk to Danny Strong figuring that if he was going to do a movie based on that book, it was likely to be as misleading"

 

Multiple other campaign sources at the link.........Of course, you can dismiss it all as partisan, but then you will be stuck defending some campaign insiders while discrediting the others.

 

The HBO producers set out to make a specific type of drama........lets not give it any other aknowledgement than that.

 

.

[birdog1960]

Sorry, accuracy IS a problem.

 

We are to accept Mr Schmidt's version while a majority of other eyewitnesses call it fiction.

 

'Game Change' Fallout: Sarah Palin 11 - HBO 1

 

 

 

Multiple other campaign sources at the link.........Of course, you can dismiss it all as partisan, but then you will be stuck defending some campaign insiders while discrediting the others.

 

The HBO producers set out to make a specific type of drama........lets not give it any other aknowledgement than that.

 

.

i'm not surprised some alternative opinions have now surfaced (jason recher needs to get a calender though- 2001?). and i agree that schmidt has an axe to grind. i wasn't aware of 4 of the 25 hbo consultants have rescinded their approval of the movie. your link doesn't mention their names. i suspect that not everything was portrayed in the way that everyone remembers. some could be absolute fiction. but read the couric interview transcript and tell me with a staight face that palin had any right even being considered for a job that's a heartbeat away from the presidency.

Edited March 13, 2012 by birdog1960

[Oxrock]

i'm not convinced she hurt the campaign...pretty certain she would have hurt the country but it's implied they would have tried to keep her on a short leash. the scary thing to me is that she may have helped by shoring up the base. in my mind, that implies very bad judgement on the bases part.

 

sorry, but comparing obama to palin is just silly. articulate us senator, ivy league law degree, well versed on complicated national and international issues versus mayor of a small town, governer of alaska who reportedly didn't know the function of the federal reserve.

 

i will watch the netflix feed with special interest on how schmidt and wallace are portrayed.

 

and i didn't take that as the main scene of the movie. i thought the scenes illustrating palin's complete lack of knowledge were much more important.

Wait, what?!?

How is that? Two things:

 

1. Palin was running for VP not President and was right on the role of the Vice President (Article I of the Constitution, which describes the authority of the legislative branch, says that "the vice president of the United States shall be president of the Senate, but shall have no vote, unless they be equally divided." Aside from the job of replacing a president who dies or is unable to serve, the only vice presidential duties that are spelled out in the Constitution are legislative in character. It does not describe the role of the executive branch as Biden claimed) AND international issues in her debates against Slow Joe Biden (crazy Joe...When we kicked — along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, I said, and Barack said, 'Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don't know — if you don't, Hezbollah will control it.").

2. Obama had ZERO knowledge or experience on complicated national and international issues. That's the whole reason Joe Biden is VP now. It sure wasn't to get the Delaware votes.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Oxrock

[jjamie12]

but read the couric interview transcript and tell me with a staight face that palin had any right even being considered for a job that's a heartbeat away from the presidency.

After going through the campaign process, very, very few people actually think Sarah Palin should have been considered for the job. I don't actually know even one single person who thinks she should be considered Presidential material. It is such a red-herring to bring this up over and over.

 

Wait, what?!?

How is that? Two things:

 

1. Palin was running for VP not President and was right on the role of the Vice President (Article I of the Constitution, which describes the authority of the legislative branch, says that "the vice president of the United States shall be president of the Senate, but shall have no vote, unless they be equally divided." Aside from the job of replacing a president who dies or is unable to serve, the only vice presidential duties that are spelled out in the Constitution are legislative in character. It does not describe the role of the executive branch as Biden claimed) AND international issues in her debates against Slow Joe Biden (crazy Joe...When we kicked along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, I said, and Barack said, 'Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don't know if you don't, Hezbollah will control it.").

2. Obama had ZERO knowledge or experience on complicated national and international issues. That's the whole reason Joe Biden is VP now. It sure wasn't to get the Delaware votes.

Oh just stop it. Then-Senator Obama could articulate his positions (such as they were) clearly and articulately, as well as demonstrating a strong command and understanding of what was happening in the world. It was clear that he knew what the issues were (it was always less clear that he understood whether or not they were realistic -- see Guantanamo Bay and the Patriot Act for example). Sarah Palin, for whatever reason, was not able to demonstrate that she had an understanding of what was happening in the world, let alone being able to have us trust her judgment with regard to those issues.

Edited March 13, 2012 by jjamie12

[DC Tom]

After going through the campaign process, very, very few people actually think Sarah Palin should have been considered for the job. I don't actually know even one single person who thinks she should be considered Presidential material. It is such a red-herring to bring this up over and over.

 

Maybe not presidential material, but if I were elected President I'd certainly like to have her on my staff...