EVERY FITZPATRICK HATER

[NewEra]

1331229869[/url]' post='2398800']

I've been labeled a "Fitz Hater" for a while now and I have been adamant that I want him to succeed because it gets us to the playoffs and beyond. I have also stated numerous times that I am not naive enough to think we are a new QB away from winning a SB. However, I have also stated over and over that I do not believe Fitz is good enough to take us to the promised land. Competent? Sure. Good enough to get us to the playoffs? Doubt it.

 

I can't understand the fact people believe that plug any QB into a system and they will succeed. I submit that if Fitz replaced Brady this past season, the Pats do NOT get to the SB. Spout off about system and talent all you want. You need a QB who can thrive in the system and can consistently make all the throws. As pointed out, Fitz does not. He is "inconfitztent" (love that term).

 

I want to win. I am sick of not being in the playoffs. I am sick of being disrespected. Winning starts with the QB in TODAY'S NFL. Comparing the current league to 10 or 20 years ago invalidates any argument about certain QB's winning SB's. But hey, who wants a great QB instead of a journeyman?

 

No excuses next year.

 

Well said. Exactly how I feel. Now the "fitz haters haters" will come back with, defense still wins championships. The NYG beat the pats cuz they had a better defense. The ravens and niners made the playoffs with smith and flacco. Did they notice smith and flacco in the SB? Course not, Brady and Manning beat them. 2 HoF QBs. You can have success in the nfl without a great QB. No one is denying this, but having a great qb gives you the best chance for success. Fitz has never been great. MAYBE this is the year he busts out of the telephone booth dressed as something other than an average QB, but I doubt it. I pray that he does

[Bronc24]

Well said. Exactly how I feel. Now the "fitz haters haters" will come back with, defense still wins championships. The NYG beat the pats cuz they had a better defense. The ravens and niners made the playoffs with smith and flacco. Did they notice smith and flacco in the SB? Course not, Brady and Manning beat them. 2 HoF QBs. You can have success in the nfl without a great QB. No one is denying this, but having a great qb gives you the best chance for success. Fitz has never been great. MAYBE this is the year he busts out of the telephone booth dressed as something other than an average QB, but I doubt it. I pray that he does

 

As do I.

 

On another note, I say screw the Patriots. We are so obsessed with beating them, yet we went 0 - 4 vs. the Jets and the Dolphins. We HAVE to beat those teams if we have any chance at the playoffs.

[BuffaloBillsSD]

You're lumping two very different kind of "hating" into one. There are team fans and there are the talking heads/"experts" of the sport. Team fans, like the Giant fans you are talking about, will ALWAYS be extreme. No one takes them seriously (like Pddaddy on this board). Then there's the talking heads who trade in hyperbole but by in large have a more objective vantage point about the state of the entire league since they're not focused on just one roster.

 

Heading into last season, both Giant fans and the talking heads use to debate whether or not Eli was an elite QB. The extreme Giant fans were the ones who were quick to throw Eli under the bus while most talking heads and analysts pointed to the man's stats which showed since he won his first ring Eli has done nothing but improve and put up monster numbers. It wasn't a serious debate -- but it was still a debate.

 

But now? It's no longer a debate. NO serious football fan or analyst will ever say Eli is NOT an elite QB now. In fact, the debate now is who's the better Manning. Even the extreme Giant fans who will piss and moan (like ANY team's fans) about their QB when he puts up a stinker will not be able to seriously argue the Giants would be better off without Eli.

 

The situation with Fitz is the same. None of the "haters" actually hate Fitz. They just want their team to win and know in a QB driven NFL you need an elite QB to win a ring. Fitz is not an elite QB -- it's not even a DEBATE amongst anyone outside of Buffalo. Fitz is a 7 year vet who is no longer progressing. He's not a rookie with huge upside -- he's a vet with a tendency to throw bone headed INTs, questionable accuracy, and an inability to close. Now, there are Fans who wish to turn a blind eye to this and say Fitz just needs the right pieces around him ... which instantly takes him out of the conversation for "elite" since elite QBs make the players around him BETTER.

 

But I digress. Both sides of the Fitz argument want the Bills to win.

 

Very well put.

[KOKBILLS]

You incorrectly lump "want him to fail" with every criticism of Fitz. I don't want him to fail. I want him to win a SB. However, his body of work over his career has not given me the confidence that he will, regardless of the team we surround him with.

 

Exactly!

 

I mean the over exaggeration on this Board sometime is SO laughable! WTF kind of Bills Fan, who posts on a Bill Message Board daily, would want the Starting QB to fail? It's ridiculous some of the crap that flies around here at times from those over-defending Fitz...

[Dan]

Fitz's single biggest short coming is his accuracy, especially down the field accuracy. With proper off season training to improve his foot work and improve his core body strength, he can improve his accuracy. Now as the unquestioned starter, with the contract to prove it, with a full off season to work with, the question is... will he put in the work to address his most glaring weakness?

 

If he does, IMO, his performance will improve dramatically and so will the team's fortunes. Unfortunately, we won't really know until next season starts.

 

For those wanting to draft a QB of the future, just be prepared for heartache. Given Fitz's past performance and the glaring needs we have elswhere, I think its highly unlikely they draft a QB in the first round. Fitz has shown enough flash to get next season, but I think we can all agree he needs to improve. Let's just hope he does.

[Bronc24]

You're lumping two very different kind of "hating" into one. There are team fans and there are the talking heads/"experts" of the sport. Team fans, like the Giant fans you are talking about, will ALWAYS be extreme. No one takes them seriously (like Pddaddy on this board). Then there's the talking heads who trade in hyperbole but by in large have a more objective vantage point about the state of the entire league since they're not focused on just one roster.

 

Heading into last season, both Giant fans and the talking heads use to debate whether or not Eli was an elite QB. The extreme Giant fans were the ones who were quick to throw Eli under the bus while most talking heads and analysts pointed to the man's stats which showed since he won his first ring Eli has done nothing but improve and put up monster numbers. It wasn't a serious debate -- but it was still a debate.

 

But now? It's no longer a debate. NO serious football fan or analyst will ever say Eli is NOT an elite QB now. In fact, the debate now is who's the better Manning. Even the extreme Giant fans who will piss and moan (like ANY team's fans) about their QB when he puts up a stinker will not be able to seriously argue the Giants would be better off without Eli.

 

The situation with Fitz is the same. None of the "haters" actually hate Fitz. They just want their team to win and know in a QB driven NFL you need an elite QB to win a ring. Fitz is not an elite QB -- it's not even a DEBATE amongst anyone outside of Buffalo. Fitz is a 7 year vet who is no longer progressing. He's not a rookie with huge upside -- he's a vet with a tendency to throw bone headed INTs, questionable accuracy, and an inability to close. Now, there are Fans who wish to turn a blind eye to this and say Fitz just needs the right pieces around him ... which instantly takes him out of the conversation for "elite" since elite QBs make the players around him BETTER.

 

But I digress. Both sides of the Fitz argument want the Bills to win.

 

 

Great post and the bolded statement says it all: I live thousands of miles from Buffalo and am the only Bills fan in an ocean of knowledgeable football coaches and fans. NOBODY considers Fitz more than a journeyman starter.

 

Fitz's single biggest short coming is his accuracy, especially down the field accuracy. With proper off season training to improve his foot work and improve his core body strength, he can improve his accuracy. Now as the unquestioned starter, with the contract to prove it, with a full off season to work with, the question is... will he put in the work to address his most glaring weakness?

 

If he does, IMO, his performance will improve dramatically and so will the team's fortunes. Unfortunately, we won't really know until next season starts.

 

For those wanting to draft a QB of the future, just be prepared for heartache. Given Fitz's past performance and the glaring needs we have elswhere, I think its highly unlikely they draft a QB in the first round. Fitz has shown enough flash to get next season, but I think we can all agree he needs to improve. Let's just hope he does.

 

 

If we do not trade up, which I am confident we will not do, then there is no way we take a QB at 10. The debate has raged on the value of trading up to grab a QB such as RGIII.

[loserlovers]

OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! use more exclamation points please!!!!!!!!!!!

 

haha but really...this was fitz' prolblem. He began using the "deep" backside go route as his outlet pass, which we saw many times bounce off the hands of less than talented recievers like B. smith, F. jackson, spiller or one of the new UFA we brought in at the end. These guys can barely catch regular passes much less deep, contested, sideline balls. Fitz did this many times on third down when guys were wide open at the first down marker...WIDE OPEN!(!!!!!!) I DVR all games and watch these plays and just couldnt believe how many times he went deep to covered guys when he got in trouble.

 

If he could just wait and take one more look short, we would have won 2-3 more games last year, or if we had a real reciever at the X postion.

 

Either way, next year should be better. Fitz, i am sure is aware of what I see from a DVR. That and he will have someone to throw to on both sides of the field.(i hope)

 

PS Fitz-please throw your "deep" passes with some arc this year so DB's dont just have them land in their bread basket when they turn to look for the ball.

[K-9]

OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! use more exclamation points please!!!!!!!!!!!

 

haha but really...this was fitz' prolblem. He began using the "deep" backside go route as his outlet pass, which we saw many times bounce off the hands of less than talented recievers like B. smith, F. jackson, spiller or one of the new UFA we brought in at the end. These guys can barely catch regular passes much less deep, contested, sideline balls. Fitz did this many times on third down when guys were wide open at the first down marker...WIDE OPEN!(!!!!!!) I DVR all games and watch these plays and just couldnt believe how many times he went deep to covered guys when he got in trouble.

 

Where were the safeties most of the time when Fitz tried to make this play?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[gumby]

Typical straw man argument. If you think the Bills can do better at QB you therefore must "hate" Fitzpatrick. I think most people cheer for the logo on the helmet not the name on the jersey.

[loserlovers]

Where were the safeties most of the time when Fitz tried to make this play?

 

GO BILLS!!!

they were usually involved in covering the WR in question, either way the underneath guy was wide open on a majority of these throws when it was 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 6 etc.

 

was that a serious question?

[Beerball]

I live thousands of miles from Buffalo and am the only Bills fan in an ocean of knowledgeable football coaches and fans.

Samoa?

[K-9]

they were usually involved in covering the WR in question, either way the underneath guy was wide open on a majority of these throws when it was 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 6 etc.

 

was that a serious question?

 

Yes, it was a serious question. And the reason why I asked it is that, regardless of down/distance Fitz always checked to that go route when he saw press coverage with no safety help. Safeties were doing more crowding to take away those shorter crossing routes that that we were hurting defenses with as well as to offer better run support since FJ and CJ were hurting Ds as well. While it would have been nice to see Fitz more accurate on those plays, it was still smart, regardless. It did cause defenses to play more honestly.

 

But if Fitz was frequently forcing that throw into man-over/under coverage, not going through his progressions, and missing open receivers underneath as result, then I have to question his decision making a little bit. While we all saw him miss guys, I didn't see him try to force things too often. All of that is predicated on his safety reads. Thus the question about where the safeties were lining up most of the time.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Bronc24]

Borneo.

[Dan]

...

 

If we do not trade up, which I am confident we will not do, then there is no way we take a QB at 10. The debate has raged on the value of trading up to grab a QB such as RGIII.

Agreed; which is why I stated be prepared for heartache. I just can't see them trading up and losing valuable picks to get a QB, when the FO has shown confidence in the one we have AND we have so many needs elsewhere. So, like it or not, Fitz is going to be the QB here for the next year and, in all likelihood, the next several years.

[ryan42790]

Fitz's single biggest short coming is his accuracy, especially down the field accuracy. With proper off season training to improve his foot work and improve his core body strength, he can improve his accuracy. Now as the unquestioned starter, with the contract to prove it, with a full off season to work with, the question is... will he put in the work to address his most glaring weakness?

 

If he does, IMO, his performance will improve dramatically and so will the team's fortunes. Unfortunately, we won't really know until next season starts.

 

For those wanting to draft a QB of the future, just be prepared for heartache. Given Fitz's past performance and the glaring needs we have elswhere, I think its highly unlikely they draft a QB in the first round. Fitz has shown enough flash to get next season, but I think we can all agree he needs to improve. Let's just hope he does.

 

Amen brother. Fitz is a fighter. As corny as that phrase is, can anyone argue otherwise? I'm willing to believe Fitz is working day and night to improve his game.

 

 

Also, I might be wrong, but have there been reports that apparently Fitz has really beefed up the last couple of weeks from going to the gym? I thought I saw that somewhere.

[loserlovers]

Yes, it was a serious question. And the reason why I asked it is that, regardless of down/distance Fitz always checked to that go route when he saw press coverage with no safety help. Safeties were doing more crowding to take away those shorter crossing routes that that we were hurting defenses with as well as to offer better run support since FJ and CJ were hurting Ds as well. While it would have been nice to see Fitz more accurate on those plays, it was still smart, regardless. It did cause defenses to play more honestly.

 

But if Fitz was frequently forcing that throw into man-over/under coverage, not going through his progressions, and missing open receivers underneath as result, then I have to question his decision making a little bit. While we all saw him miss guys, I didn't see him try to force things too often. All of that is predicated on his safety reads. Thus the question about where the safeties were lining up most of the time.

 

GO BILLS!!!

since we're in a philisophical debate now, i agree throwing deep makes safeties play fair, but thats only if you HIT those plays. Football is incredibly mental. When you throw deep and miss, safeties think ,"ya , thats right, he cant go deep on us" If you hit a few, they back up.

 

My point was, no matter how you slice it, fitz threw to double covered guys deep( often rb's), the passes fell incomplete or intercepted, the whole time having a guy cross wide open underneath at the sticks. Not single covered, but wide open. You dont need to "back the defense up" when a guy is there for the first down. Those deep throws should be thrown on first or second down anyway, or when they do crowd the line like you said.

 

it is all about decision making, for a smart guy i dont get his decisions alot of times.

[K-9]

since we're in a philisophical debate now, i agree throwing deep makes safeties play fair, but thats only if you HIT those plays. Football is incredibly mental. When you throw deep and miss, safeties think ,"ya , thats right, he cant go deep on us" If you hit a few, they back up.

 

My point was, no matter how you slice it, fitz threw to double covered guys deep( often rb's), the passes fell incomplete or intercepted, the whole time having a guy cross wide open underneath at the sticks. Not single covered, but wide open. You dont need to "back the defense up" when a guy is there for the first down. Those deep throws should be thrown on first or second down anyway, or when they do crowd the line like you said.

 

it is all about decision making, for a smart guy i dont get his decisions alot of times.

 

I'm not arguing with you. I think you're making a good point.

 

As to the sentence in bold, the guy being open for the first down is after the fact. And I think Fitz did attempt most of those go routes, at least the ones he checked into, on first and second down. It's the passes on third down that you brought up that raise some concerns I have about Fitz. If it's as pronounced as you say, then I have to question his decision making a bit more. Something I hadn't had THAT big a problem with previously. He has little room for bad decisions because he can't make up for them with his physical ability alone.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[PDaDdy]

Don't bring facts to PDaddy! He doesn't trade in facts -- only hyperbole, simple mindedness, and unicorns!

 

Ah...thank you for your useless, factless non stop personal attacks. Keep em coming. Your contributions are valued *cough* *cough*

Edited March 8, 2012 by PDaDdy

[Toshiero]

Whats funny is when we were 5-2 i dont remember hearing anyone talking crap about our qb. 8 injuries later our team was weakened. This fall Nix will have the pieces in place to compete and win our division!!!!!!!!!! Then we will see how many people want another qb. Cause i wont!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for posting Mrs. Fitzpatrick.

[PDaDdy]

I'm pretty sure cassell led the CHIEFS to the playoffs the year before last and was a pro owl alternate. He was hurt last year. Yep....the chiefs made the playoffs, led by Matt Cassell.

 

You bring up a good point. 2010 in a weak division Cassel did have a very good year at QB. That's 1 out of 3. The year he was hurt by the way he was on pace for a whopping 19 TDs on the year and 18 INTs and played over half of the year. Guess we should just put him in the Hall of Fame now!

 

Was 2010 also the year that Jamaal Charles had almost 2000 combined yards and averaged 6.9 yards per carry on a RUNNING team? Was 2010 the year their defense was 11th in the league allowing only 20.4 pts a week? Those things probably had nothing to do with it. CROWN HIM!!!