3rdnlng Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I can agree with you- I also would like something done with the lobbyists. They have way too much power on both sides of the aisle Ha! but not that type of draft Thanks for bringing up lobbyists. I'm sure I can find another good lobbyist quote for the Obama Quote thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Thanks for bringing up lobbyists. I'm sure I can find another good lobbyist quote for the Obama Quote thread. I live to help out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (see South Africa) See Switzerland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Again dayman, condoms are cheap, provide far greater protection against STD's, and don't cause systemic effects. The pill is not the be-all, end-all. There's also the morning after pill. Again more personal responsibility should be in order. Condoms simply aren't a close equivalent IMO. My girlfriend gets so many benefits from her birth control besides us not having a baby we don't want right now. Her periods are regulated so she knows when she gets it (it's no longer quasi-mystery) and it's lighter. It helps cramps and pain. Generally it helps women control their body, the biology of which stacks the deck against them from the get go. If men had periods we wouldn't be saying things like "use a condom" and "don't have sex." Just my opinion but birth control is not simply one of many options. It is THE option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 See Switzerland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 $15/hour and yes there are costs. things cost what they actually do and the swiss are just weird and intrusive but we could do even better then those germanic weirdos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 $15/hour and yes there are costs. things cost what they actually do and the swiss are just weird and intrusive but we could do even better then those germanic weirdos. It's not a good comparison for countless reasons. Not only do you have the problem of causation to address, the fundamental framework of the respective economies and cultures is so vastly different it would be like arguing a 410 transmission would be great on a big rig because it works on a Mustang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) It's not a good comparison for countless reasons. Not only do you have the problem of causation to address, the fundamental framework of the respective economies and cultures is so vastly different it would be like arguing a 410 transmission would be great on a big rig because it works on a Mustang. glass half full vs half empty Edited March 8, 2012 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 glass half full vs half empty You remind me of my friend Nick. He irritates the **** out of me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Condoms simply aren't a close equivalent IMO. My girlfriend gets so many benefits from her birth control besides us not having a baby we don't want right now. Her periods are regulated so she knows when she gets it (it's no longer quasi-mystery) and it's lighter. It helps cramps and pain. Generally it helps women control their body, the biology of which stacks the deck against them from the get go. If men had periods we wouldn't be saying things like "use a condom" and "don't have sex." Just my opinion but birth control is not simply one of many options. It is THE option. That's also the difference between a MEDICAL use and a CONTRACEPTIVE use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 That's also the difference between a MEDICAL use and a CONTRACEPTIVE use. Tom this is what the pill does. It does both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Her periods are regulated so she knows when she gets it (it's no longer quasi-mystery) and it's lighter. It helps cramps and pain. According to recent studies, most women actually experience the exact opposite of this when they first meet Dave in Norfolk. It's uncanny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 According to recent studies, most women actually experience the exact opposite of this when they first meet Dave in Norfolk. It's uncanny. Actually they say "put it in Dave". After that they don't have much contact with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Like it or not as a nation we have adopted healthcare reform. With such a change we have adopted standards. Some things are in, some things are out. Women's reproductive healthcare is in, as it should be IMO. If you don't agree, chalk it up to one of many things we all pay for (in this case through premiums) that you don't want to pay for. There are a lot of those things I pay for I don't want to pay for. I don't call the people that money goes to entitled. As for the religious argument. I don't see pacifists across the nation getting refunds for the billions upon billions that pay for our wars. Here's the difference between you and me. I want to pay for ALL the things I buy because I either want or need them. That's how the system works. What the hell are you paying for that you don't want?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Condoms simply aren't a close equivalent IMO. My girlfriend gets so many benefits from her birth control besides us not having a baby we don't want right now. Her periods are regulated so she knows when she gets it (it's no longer quasi-mystery) and it's lighter. It helps cramps and pain. Generally it helps women control their body, the biology of which stacks the deck against them from the get go. If men had periods we wouldn't be saying things like "use a condom" and "don't have sex." Just my opinion but birth control is not simply one of many options. It is THE option. As is a $9/month supply of generic birth control pills at a local pharmacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Here's the difference between you and me. I want to pay for ALL the things I buy because I either want or need them. That's how the system works. What the hell are you paying for that you don't want?? This response is so incoherent given the context of the discussion and the text you quoted it hardly warrants a response. In any event there's a hypothetical in the last sentence you quoted. To give another hypothetical, podiatrists cutting medicare patients toe nails for exorbitant fees. As is a $9/month supply of generic birth control pills at a local pharmacy I agree it is nice that certain local establishments take a stance on issues like this and voluntarily provide a discount for generic birth control to those who's health insurance does not cover birth control. That would be an even stronger argument if the female body was uniform across our species, but it's not and the reason there are a number of different approaches (both in pill form and otherwise) to birth control is because there needs to be to help individual women. You see...generic birth control (Tri-Sprintec is the one that you are probably referring to) doesn't cut it for all women. Of course you probably don't care (or maybe even don't believe that?) but then again your stance on the issue doesn't make me think you are a doctor. Not to sound snobby but "just go take this pill for $9" isn't something I would go telling women if I weren't a doctor. In any event, my girlfriend would rather not depend on private charity when it comes to taking care of her body. She would rather just have it included in her healthcare plan (along with a bunch of other things that are in there that I don't see you attacking) because as I've stated earlier, we both consider birth control to be healthcare. Edited March 8, 2012 by dayman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 This response is so incoherent given the context of the discussion and the text you quoted it hardly warrants a response. In any event there's a hypothetical in the last sentence you quoted. To give another hypothetical, podiatrists cutting medicare patients toe nails for exorbitant fees. I agree it is nice that certain local establishments take a stance on issues like this and voluntarily provide a discount for generic birth control to those who's health insurance does not cover birth control. That would be an even stronger argument if the female body was uniform across our species, but it's not and the reason there are a number of different approaches (both in pill form and otherwise) to birth control is because there needs to be to help individual women. You see...generic birth control (Tri-Sprintec is the one that you are probably referring to) doesn't cut it for all women. Of course you probably don't care (or maybe even don't believe that?) but then again your stance on the issue doesn't make me think you are a doctor. Not to sound snobby but "just go take this pill for $9" isn't something I would go telling women if I weren't a doctor. In any event, my girlfriend would rather not depend on private charity when it comes to taking care of her body. She would rather just have it included in her healthcare plan (along with a bunch of other things that are in there that I don't see you attacking) because as I've stated earlier, we both consider birth control to be healthcare. Well golly, then maybe if there are hereditary particulars about your girlfriend's biological makeup that make her resistant to generic drugs, then perhaps you should explore other avenues to prevent an accidental birth. If you go 9/10 of the mile to recognize that not all birtgh control pills are created equal, perhaps you should go the full mile and either abstain from sex or have at it all you want and then do what nature designed to happen when you engage in the act and act like a responsible adult. Unless you are 15 years old and need to have a life's lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Well golly, then maybe if there are hereditary particulars about your girlfriend's biological makeup that make her resistant to generic drugs, then perhaps you should explore other avenues to prevent an accidental birth. If you go 9/10 of the mile to recognize that not all birtgh control pills are created equal, perhaps you should go the full mile and either abstain from sex or have at it all you want and then do what nature designed to happen when you engage in the act and act like a responsible adult. Unless you are 15 years old and need to have a life's lesson. And there you have both crossed the line of civility and made and ass out of yourself. Thank you for the speculation on my girlfriends biological makeup and direction on how she and I should behave as well as the oversight of the fact that birth control is not merely contraceptive. Edited March 8, 2012 by dayman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 This response is so incoherent given the context of the discussion and the text you quoted it hardly warrants a response. In any event there's a hypothetical in the last sentence you quoted. To give another hypothetical, podiatrists cutting medicare patients toe nails for exorbitant fees. I agree it is nice that certain local establishments take a stance on issues like this and voluntarily provide a discount for generic birth control to those who's health insurance does not cover birth control. That would be an even stronger argument if the female body was uniform across our species, but it's not and the reason there are a number of different approaches (both in pill form and otherwise) to birth control is because there needs to be to help individual women. You see...generic birth control (Tri-Sprintec is the one that you are probably referring to) doesn't cut it for all women. Of course you probably don't care (or maybe even don't believe that?) but then again your stance on the issue doesn't make me think you are a doctor. Not to sound snobby but "just go take this pill for $9" isn't something I would go telling women if I weren't a doctor. In any event, my girlfriend would rather not depend on private charity when it comes to taking care of her body. She would rather just have it included in her healthcare plan (along with a bunch of other things that are in there that I don't see you attacking) because as I've stated earlier, we both consider birth control to be healthcare. Then tell about some of the things you pay for that you don't want to pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 And there you have both crossed the line of civility and made and ass out of yourself. Thank you for the speculation on my girlfriends biological makeup and direction on how she and I should behave as well as the oversight of the fact that birth control is not merely contraceptive. Of course I did, because I'm the one that is harping about contraception in a thread about entitlement. I also know the difference between healthcare and insurance coverage. Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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