Bill from NYC Posted March 8, 2012 Author Posted March 8, 2012 Trade down to address a lesser priority. That doesn't seem to be the right way to go. Why would trading down and gaining a premium pick be less acceptable than standing pat and taking Spiller at #9? Certainly RB wasn't their biggest need at the time. Value? Hightower looks like a very good player, and we have 1 LB on the roster. I'm just saying.....
section122 Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 I posted this in the Buddy visiting the pro day thread but I'll also drop it here. I also watch more than my share of Alabama football as they are my favorite non-su team. What are your feelings about Dequan Menzie Bill? I saw a lot of good this year from him. I think he is/was tested and held up extremely well. Projections have him going anywhere from the 3rd-7th and I would love if the Bills grabbed him. As an aside I will agree that Hightower stood out this year moreso than Upshaw imo. He looks fierce and fast on the field!
JPS Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 Good thread. Bunch of solid reading. I think Buddy would be negligent if he didn't go down to Alabama's pro day. They have a better defense than the Bills. Whether the draft brings him trade down possibility or one of the Bama players slides lower than Buddy's projection, I think he's wise to go down there. Buddy needs to be around these guys and talk to them, if nothing else, to see what's important to them. Other thoughts: Some mocks have Brockers out of the 1st as Poe and Cox are moving up; I'd be surprised if Mallett ever suits up as the Patriots starter; and with injury questions in Wood and Kyle Williams, I think the Bills need more depth in the middle on both sides.
JohnC Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 Why would trading down and gaining a premium pick be less acceptable than standing pat and taking Spiller at #9? Certainly RB wasn't their biggest need at the time. Value? Hightower looks like a very good player, and we have 1 LB on the roster. I'm just saying..... I think you will agree that Buddy Nix is not the type of GM who maneuvers around in the draft as some other GMs are more prone to do. That isn't his style. I disagree with that self-limiting approach but if he is more comfortable with his "batter-up" type approach then I want him to stay within his own comfort zone. There are many ways to work the draft. But in most drafts, as in this year's draft, if a team believes that they need an anchor LT they will need to get it at the top of the draft, not lower down first round. What I want from Buddy Nix is for him to make good value picks from the spot he is picking at. If Nix stays pat then Hightower, who I acknowledge would be an excellent prospect, would not be a smart pick at the ten spot. If Nix did moved down then I certainly would have no problem with his selection. You have a tendency to get fixated on players. Last year it was Mallett. I'm not suggesting that the players you are infatuated with are not good players. What I am saying is that when a player is drafted is a very important consideration. It is apparent that you have been very rankled over the Spiller pick. Let it go. He was a highly ranked player who was drafted in the vicinity of where he was rankd. This regime felt that they desperately needed a big play playmaker. Last year he gave a glimpse that he is capable of being that type of player. I'm very confident that sometime this year you are going to reluctantly come around on that pick after witnessing a number of explosive plays. Be patient. Trust me on this issue. I will need lead you astray.
Ramius Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 After doing a bit mroe digging, i'm slowly becoming more and mroe ok with the Bills taking Hightower at #10. Sure it may be considered a slight "reach," but if the guy is good, who cares that you took him 10 spots higher than he was "projected" to go. Watching Mayock last night, he was showing how Hightower is a true 3 down LB, and he's got the athleticism and size to play ILB, OLB, and hand-in-the-dirt DE.
JohnC Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 After doing a bit mroe digging, i'm slowly becoming more and mroe ok with the Bills taking Hightower at #10. Sure it may be considered a slight "reach," but if the guy is good, who cares that you took him 10 spots higher than he was "projected" to go. Watching Mayock last night, he was showing how Hightower is a true 3 down LB, and he's got the athleticism and size to play ILB, OLB, and hand-in-the-dirt DE. What if a player was ranked higher on the Bills' draft board and fit a critical need such as a DE/OLB or OT would you still prefer taking Hightower? I want to emphasize that I not saying he wouldn't be a quallty prospect, because he would be. If you don't trust your scouting work and the development of your player ranking then why put so much resources in a process that you don't believe in?
K-9 Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 After doing a bit mroe digging, i'm slowly becoming more and mroe ok with the Bills taking Hightower at #10. Sure it may be considered a slight "reach," but if the guy is good, who cares that you took him 10 spots higher than he was "projected" to go. Watching Mayock last night, he was showing how Hightower is a true 3 down LB, and he's got the athleticism and size to play ILB, OLB, and hand-in-the-dirt DE. I thought I saw him playing all three against LSU in the title game. He also looked like he knew what he was doing when dropping into coverage. GO BILLS!!!
JPS Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 I know I put this in another thread, but why can't Hightower play SAM? God knows we need one.
Ramius Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 What if a player was ranked higher on the Bills' draft board and fit a critical need such as a DE/OLB or OT would you still prefer taking Hightower? I want to emphasize that I not saying he wouldn't be a quallty prospect, because he would be. If you don't trust your scouting work and the development of your player ranking then why put so much resources in a process that you don't believe in? Depends who is on their board. I'm all about taking the BPA. There's a lot of positions i'm ok with them drafting, be it OT, WR, CB, etc. I guess i dont see that much of a gap between Hightower and Ingram/Upshaw. (Coples is a lazy waste of space, and i don't trust one-year wonder mercilus) I guess my point was that i'm ok with Hightower if thats who they decide to take at 10, and i don't care as much that he'd be considered a bit of a "reach."
JohnC Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 Depends who is on their board. I'm all about taking the BPA. There's a lot of positions i'm ok with them drafting, be it OT, WR, CB, etc. I guess i dont see that much of a gap between Hightower and Ingram/Upshaw. (Coples is a lazy waste of space, and i don't trust one-year wonder mercilus) I guess my point was that i'm ok with Hightower if thats who they decide to take at 10, and i don't care as much that he'd be considered a bit of a "reach." With respect to Couples I totally agree. You are who you are. If you are not a full effort player, no matter the talent level, then you are not going to be a consistent and dependable player in the pros. Look at Haynesworth. He is one of the most talented DTs in the game. He is a failure because of his lack of effort and attitude. I'm not making the point that Couples is like Haynesworth, because he probably is not such an uncoachable thug. Motivation is an internal attribute. You either have it or not. It seems that we are on the same wavelength as far as the BPA approach. Nix has a lot of selection options in the draft. All that I desire is that he doesn't reach for need and trust his draft board. Getting cute, the Donahoe approach, is certanly not the way to go.
Ramius Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 With respect to Couples I totally agree. You are who you are. If you are not a full effort player, no matter the talent level, then you are not going to be a consistent and dependable player in the pros. Look at Haynesworth. He is one of the most talented DTs in the game. He is a failure because of his lack of effort and attitude. I'm not making the point that Couples is like Haynesworth, because he probably is not such an uncoachable thug. Motivation is an internal attribute. You either have it or not. It seems that we are on the same wavelength as far as the BPA approach. Nix has a lot of selection options in the draft. All that I desire is that he doesn't reach for need and trust his draft board. Getting cute, the Donahoe approach, is certanly not the way to go. Yeah we're on the same wavelength. Regarding Hightiwer, this might sound odd, but i'm ok with them taking him if they've stacked him up against Upshaw/Ingram/Coples/Mercilus and determine that he'll be a better player, and less ok with them taking him because the other top pass rusher types are gone.
Bill from NYC Posted March 9, 2012 Author Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) What if a player was ranked higher on the Bills' draft board and fit a critical need such as a DE/OLB or OT would you still prefer taking Hightower? I want to emphasize that I not saying he wouldn't be a quallty prospect, because he would be. If you don't trust your scouting work and the development of your player ranking then why put so much resources in a process that you don't believe in? Because I enjoy our conversations so much, I am going to answer as if you were asking me. I want a quality LT, and have posted over and over that they are worth their weight in gold. Again, he would not have to be at the Walter Jones/Jonathan Ogden/Orlando Pace level to please me. A Brad Hopkins/Tarik Glenn would be just fine. Is there one out there at #10? I don't know. Dick Drawn, is Jonathan Martin as good as these two? R.Rich, Astro, are you there? The Bills pass rush is pathetic. Is there a standout DE who will be around at #10? Maybe, but I am not seeing one. This doesn't make me right mind you. Hightower can stuff the run in a big way. He can blitz, force fumbles, and I have seen him cover as well. If he is as good as I think he is, he would help this team big time. As far as comparing him to Sheppard, imo he was better than Sheppard last year. He is bigger, stronger, and hits harder. You are right about Buddy and his comfort zone. If trading isn't his thing I guess he should leave it alone. That said, there are plenty of teams who will scoop this kid up. The Giants, Jets, and Ravens could really use him. And btw, Upshaw, although probably more suited for a 3/4, wouldn't break my heart either. And Mark Barron is going to be a probowl player as well. They should drive a tractor-trailer to Alabama and draft the entire team lol! Edited March 9, 2012 by Bill from NYC
JohnC Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Because I enjoy our conversations so much, I am going to answer as if you were asking me. I want a quality LT, and have posted over and over that they are worth their weight in gold. Again, he would not have to be at the Walter Jones/Jonathan Ogden/Orlando Pace level to please me. A Brad Hopkins/Tarik Glenn would be just fine. Is there one out there at #10? I don't know. Dick Drawn, is Jonathan Martin as good as these two? R.Rich, Astro, are you there? The Bills pass rush is pathetic. Is there a standout DE who will be around at #10? Maybe, but I am not seeing one. This doesn't make me right mind you. Hightower can stuff the run in a big way. He can blitz, force fumbles, and I have seen him cover as well. If he is as good as I think he is, he would help this team big time. As far as comparing him to Sheppard, imo he was better than Sheppard last year. He is bigger, stronger, and hits harder. You are right about Buddy and his comfort zone. If trading isn't his thing I guess he should leave it alone. That said, there are plenty of teams who will scoop this kid up. The Giants, Jets, and Ravens could really use him. And btw, Upshaw, although probably more suited for a 3/4, wouldn't break my heart either. And Mark Barron is going to be a probowl player as well. They should drive a tractor-trailer to Alabama and draft the entire team lol! The Bills have a number of needs. The pass rush is non-existent. The receiving corps is in the lower 20% category. Our LT situation is very much below average affecting the types of passing plays that Fitz can safely call. The obvious point is that there are a number of needs that have to be addressed before this team becomes a serious team. It is difficult to determine a draft strategy until it is known how active the Bills will be in free agency. There are a number of positions that can be addressed in free agency. One position that can't be addressed through free agency is the LT position. The Wilson Bills are the only dopey organization that would give up an anchor LT (Jason Peters) for the simple reason that they weren't willing to pay the going rate for an upper tier LT. This moronic organization and its band of clowns were willing to provide golden contracts for stiffs (Dockery & Walker) yet weren't willing to accommodate the best offensive lineman on the team. Ralph Wilson is one of the most incompetent owners in the league. For those who take umbrage at how I evaluate him I simpy point out the francise's record over the past generation. As clueless as he has been Ralph Wilson demonstrated to me that he did have an understanding of the state of the franchise when he hired Nix. His message to the frustrated fanbase was: pain and patience. Believe it or not when he gave his stark assessment it demonstrated to me that he finally understood that what this downtrodden franchise (by his own doing) needed more than ever is stability and a blueprint to be followed. From the start Nix layed out his plan. Draft and develop your own players. Then do your best to retain that talent when they go into the next contract. In general, he has been following this wise and time tested formula. When it comes to the draft he prefers to take players who have a history in college of producing. That philosophy would preclude him from taking a Maybin new type of flash player. Nix doesn't possess a scintillating personality. He is somewhat stolid and laconic. He is very transparent, sometimes too much so. Especially around draft time. What I like about him is that he has certain beliefs and he is not afraid to stick with them. He demonstrated that fortitude when he allowed LB Paul P to leave because his assessment of him did not match the size of the contract that the player wanted. He responded to the Paul P departure with the acquisition of Barnett, who arguably is a better or equal player for a more reasonable contract. In the Stevie Johnson negotiations he stayed within his contract paramaters and got the deal done. The same process was applied with the Chandler deal. That is a good sign of organizational rationality and consistency. My basic point in this excessively worded discourse is that under Nix the Bills are functioning as a professional organization. Anyone who hss followed this team for a long time knows that it hasn't always been that way. Now there is a hope that the Bills are moving in the right direction. I still don't believe they are a playoff caliber team but I do believe that this team is going to get better and be more competitive. There are many different valid approaches to take in the draft. If Nix and his staff select players that are ranked in the vicinity of where they are drafted then I will be very satisfied. An aside: I have no doubt that Hightower would be a better player than Sheppard. But that isn't the point. Sheppard was drafted in the third round and you are advocating that Hightower be taken at a relatively high first round position. Not all your needs can be filled with first round caliber players. Dareus was a high first round pick and a worthy first round pick. Sheppard was a third round pick and a (hopefully) productive player. In my mind Sheppard was a good value third round pick, CB Aaron Williams was a good value second round pick and OT Hairston was a very good value fourth round pick. Being true to your board and not reaching is the strategy Nix is taking and doing it well.
bowery4 Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 After doing a bit mroe digging, i'm slowly becoming more and mroe ok with the Bills taking Hightower at #10. Sure it may be considered a slight "reach," but if the guy is good, who cares that you took him 10 spots higher than he was "projected" to go. Watching Mayock last night, he was showing how Hightower is a true 3 down LB, and he's got the athleticism and size to play ILB, OLB, and hand-in-the-dirt DE. In other words a Buddy type player, I don't know if he is a reach or not but I think we well pass on him for some reason (just a feeling) and hope he is there (which he won't be) in the 2nd. I saw him play/line up @ DE a few times in Bama's D in the bowl game and that was why I said the comment about him playing there earlier in the thread (which someone questioned). He was a dominating force in that game and I liked him much better than Upshaw in both of the Bama games I saw last year. If Buddy thinks he is good for the 10th pick, I would be supportive of it. I also want an LT, not so sure those are 2nd round picks this year. IMO they should throw Colin Brown out to LT for back up if Bell signs along with Hairston. I think he is a mauler and like him at RT (back up too) maybe even better. In anycase he is worth development (outside the center of the line).
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