Astrobot Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I see NO downside in a 2 year deal for Abraham. Nor do I. Let's take this scenario. The Bills take a DE in RD1, 2, 3, or even 4 (Ingram, Curry, Bequette, Guyton). Nix is saying he's not wild about the pass rush value in the Top Third of the first round, so take him at his word; he does likes some of these guys in the middle rounds. But I want a veteran in here for 2 years to teach as well as play while they're learning.
QCity Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 If structured as a signing instead of roster bonus, only a fifth of it hits this year. From my understanding the bills do like the rosters as it fits the cash to cap mold but I'm not sure on Stevie. According to NFL accounting, yes. Our cash to cap system ignores that however. Cash to cap is simple, it basically means that if you spend money this year, it goes against the cap. I know it sounds crazy, but it's designed to prevent teams from mortgaging their future. I think about half the teams in the league use this system.
marauderswr80 Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 There are many options for sure...but it boils down to the smartest one!
Astrobot Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Given that Williams WILL get the most lucrative contract for a defensive player, I hope the Bills realize that Williams has been hurt each of the past two seasons, playing a total of 18 games. I hope they realize that they will be robbing Peter to pay Paul. There will be nothing left for depth, Freddie, Bell, a #2 WR, etc.
Rob's House Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Nor do I. Let's take this scenario. The Bills take a DE in RD1, 2, 3, or even 4 (Ingram, Curry, Bequette, Guyton). Nix is saying he's not wild about the pass rush value in the Top Third of the first round, so take him at his word; he does likes some of these guys in the middle rounds. But I want a veteran in here for 2 years to teach as well as play while they're learning. I love the idea except that Abraham (who I consider one of the best DEs this century) is reportedly asking for $12 mil which is a little steep for an aging pass rush specialist. If his price drops I think it'd be great. Bruce played solid ball into his late 30s.
NoSaint Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Given that Williams WILL get the most lucrative contract for a defensive player, I hope the Bills realize that Williams has been hurt each of the past two seasons, playing a total of 18 games. I hope they realize that they will be robbing Peter to pay Paul. There will be nothing left for depth, Freddie, Bell, a #2 WR, etc. At 5-8 they let him sit in december instead of risk serious injury in 2010 in 2011 he had an isolated injury that shouldn't be an issue. Before that he started 77 straight games. Honey question- have you seen many of his games?
Astrobot Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I love the idea except that Abraham (who I consider one of the best DEs this century) is reportedly asking for $12 mil which is a little steep for an aging pass rush specialist. If his price drops I think it'd be great. Bruce played solid ball into his late 30s. More like $10M. http://atlanta.sbnation.com/atlanta-falcons/2012/2/25/2823551/john-abraham-nfl-free-agency
DrDawkinstein Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 If we really like Abraham, Id rather have them draft Upshaw, who will be Abraham Jr. (Assuming Ingram is gone already). Sign Williams to a big deal, and still draft DE. Mario replaces Kelsay, Upshaw replaces Merriman. JMO
San Jose Bills Fan Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 For the sake of discussion (this is oversimplified so please just play along): Let's say Williams makes $15 million for 2012 and Abraham makes $12.5 million (85% of Williams' money). Let's also say that Williams plays 850 snaps in 2012 and Abraham plays about 450 snaps (54% of Williams snaps). Let's also say that Williams gets 10.5 sacks in 2012 and Abraham gets 10.0 sacks. The above numbers are based on rough estimates and past history… the contract numbers are just a snapshot unfortunately not factoring in length of contract, etc. Nevertheless, the above is as likely scenario as any. Are you willing to pay $2-3 million more for a player who give you hundreds of more snaps but less than one more sack?
Rob's House Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 For the sake of discussion (this is oversimplified so please just play along): Let's say Williams makes $15 million for 2012 and Abraham makes $12.5 million (85% of Williams' money). Let's also say that Williams plays 850 snaps in 2012 and Abraham plays about 450 snaps (54% of Williams snaps). Let's also say that Williams gets 10.5 sacks in 2012 and Abraham gets 10.0 sacks. The above numbers are based on rough estimates and past history… the contract numbers are just a snapshot unfortunately not factoring in length of contract, etc. Nevertheless, the above is as likely scenario as any. Are you willing to pay $2-3 million more for a player who give you hundreds of more snaps but less than one more sack? Based on the estimates people are making for Mario ($15-$20 mil.) and what Astro's link said Abraham was asking for ($10 mil or less) the price difference is likely to be ~ $7 mil/yr.
K-9 Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 According to NFL accounting, yes. Our cash to cap system ignores that however. Cash to cap is simple, it basically means that if you spend money this year, it goes against the cap. I know it sounds crazy, but it's designed to prevent teams from mortgaging their future. I think about half the teams in the league use this system. Absolutely. And next year all teams will have to use it as everyone will have to be a minimum of 90% cash to cap. GO BILLS!!!
NoSaint Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) For the sake of discussion (this is oversimplified so please just play along): Let's say Williams makes $15 million for 2012 and Abraham makes $12.5 million (85% of Williams' money). Let's also say that Williams plays 850 snaps in 2012 and Abraham plays about 450 snaps (54% of Williams snaps). Let's also say that Williams gets 10.5 sacks in 2012 and Abraham gets 10.0 sacks. The above numbers are based on rough estimates and past history… the contract numbers are just a snapshot unfortunately not factoring in length of contract, etc. Nevertheless, the above is as likely scenario as any. Are you willing to pay $2-3 million more for a player who give you hundreds of more snaps but less than one more sack? I'll bite - the player that plays those extra snaps will cost far more then 2-3 if he's effective as Mario against the run. Also, well have at minimum a 5 year answer instead of shortterm. Edited March 9, 2012 by NoSaint
Astrobot Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Okay, here we go: Falcons willing to offer #MarioWilliams $105 mil, 7 years with 35 mil guaranteed. Cap hits in the 1st 2 yrs at 10 mil each. Interested? Becausehere's a list of teams who want MW. Abraham says he's looking for $10 mil a year. Edited March 9, 2012 by Astrobot
DrDawkinstein Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Okay, here we go: Falcons willing to offer #MarioWilliams $105 mil, 7 years with 35 mil guaranteed. Cap hits in the 1st 2 yrs at 10 mil each. Interested? Because Seattle and Chicago BEars are reportedly also interested. Yes
Rob's House Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Okay, here we go: Falcons willing to offer #MarioWilliams $105 mil, 7 years with 35 mil guaranteed. Cap hits in the 1st 2 yrs at 10 mil each. Interested? Because Seattle and Chicago BEars are reportedly also interested. Abraham says he's looking for $10 mil a year. If he'd come to Buffalo for that I'd definitely make the deal.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 7 years means you have a good chance of having Mario Williams for the rest of his career. Maybe he could go out like Strahan. Hopefully it doesnt take that long for the Bills to get there.
BigBuff423 Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 I am not, nor have I ever been, one to think Mario Williams is worth the money or potential disruption to team chemistry...I know we need a good DE to bring our Defense to another level but I think a complimentary WR and LB are somewhere near the top of the list as well, and I also think another TE who can block and catch is necessary in addition to the aforementioned positions of need. I know we need a good DE, but I don't think Mario is the guy to fit into this team, wish him luck in landing wherever he goes, but I don't believe his place "should" be on the BILLS....I would like guys like Colston and Lawson here in Buffalo and find a DE who can produce but is in his prime or younger years, and again all due respect to Abram I prefer a younger DE....also for the record, I'd be good with Carlson coming to Buffalo as well....
Astrobot Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Pats* are the media's pick for MW. That'll be pleasant. Actually, I'd actually pay $12m over the first 2 years just to see Marsha deal with Williams Williams Dareus Ingram.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Pats* are the media's pick for MW. That'll be pleasant. Actually, I'd actually pay $12m over the first 2 years just to see Marsha deal with Williams Williams Dareus Ingram. If it came down to us and the Pats, Id offer way more than the above 7/$105mil. If for no other reason than to keep him off our division rival.
nucci Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) I am not, nor have I ever been, one to think Mario Williams is worth the money or potential disruption to team chemistry...I know we need a good DE to bring our Defense to another level but I think a complimentary WR and LB are somewhere near the top of the list as well, and I also think another TE who can block and catch is necessary in addition to the aforementioned positions of need. I know we need a good DE, but I don't think Mario is the guy to fit into this team, wish him luck in landing wherever he goes, but I don't believe his place "should" be on the BILLS....I would like guys like Colston and Lawson here in Buffalo and find a DE who can produce but is in his prime or younger years, and again all due respect to Abram I prefer a younger DE....also for the record, I'd be good with Carlson coming to Buffalo as well.... I see your points but wondering how he would disrupt team chemistry. I also think Williams is in his prime. I personally think he would be a tremendous help to this team and the players would welcome him. The players don't mind when others sign big contracts. Better for them in the long run. While I would like another WR I think this team is going to be very good on offense. The D needs to improve if this team is going to make a run for the playoffs. Edited March 9, 2012 by nucci
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