DrDawkinstein Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 You are completely right. Anyone who thinks this is a uncommon thing in the locker rooms has their head buried in the sand. And Im not just saying "It's ok since everyone does it". My point is, if these "bounty systems" were truly changing the way the game was played, they would have been exposed much earlier. And the teams using them (almost all 32) would have a lot more personal fouls. These systems have been around for years, yet we see the game become less and less violent every year. So obviously the systems were more for show, and bragging, than for actually causing players to be cheap.
dave mcbride Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 And Im not just saying "It's ok since everyone does it". My point is, if these "bounty systems" were truly changing the way the game was played, they would have been exposed much earlier. And the teams using them (almost all 32) would have a lot more personal fouls. These systems have been around for years, yet we see the game become less and less violent every year. So obviously the systems were more for show, and bragging, than for actually causing players to be cheap. Well, as it so happens, "all of these bounty systems" can be traced back to one person--Buddy Ryan. Everyone charged has worked for him or someone trained by him. The fish rots at the head. Don't assume that others do this just becuase a whole bunch of people associated with Ryan do. To follow my point about Ryan: http://sportschrome.photoshelter.com/image/I000046WunP2UK.g Many of us remember this play, when calvin pace needlessly and sickeningly--and deliberately--twisted trent edwards' neck around as he was going down. Pace's coach? Rex Ryan. Pace's reaction: http://www.google.com/search?um=1&hl=en&client=safari&tbo=d&biw=1024&bih=690&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=edwards+trent+jets+calvin+pace+sack+bills&oq=edwards+trent+jets+calvin+pace+sack+bills&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=1473l1934l0l2153l3l3l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0 Maybe he's happy because $10K is coming his way?
DrDawkinstein Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 Well, as it so happens, "all of these bounty systems" can be traced back to one person--Buddy Ryan. Everyone charged has worked for him or someone trained by him. The fish rots at the head. Don't assume that others do this just becuase a whole bunch of people associated with Ryan do. Per our man, and "Dat Dude", Marcellus Wiley... http://twitter.com/#!/marcelluswiley RT @sprtsramblngman @marcelluswiley are bounties that common?$Oh yes Bounty's in the NFL are a problem now? Only issue is that it became public & now the fans know. I don't think Goodell should discipline. U? Wiley didnt play for Williams or anyone else from Budy Ryan's tree. Dont assume no one else is doing it just because you can trace it back to one guy. With the way coaches and players cycle around the league, behavior spreads pretty quickly.
UConn James Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 I believe we can counter ANY claim that Gregggggggg Williams was doing this as Buffalo's HC with videographic evidence of Eddie Robinson getting juked out his shoes by Chadwick Pennington circa 2002 as he bumbled in for a TD --- on 4th down (and it wasn't even 4th-n-short). That D wasn't organized enough to tackle, much less injure.
dave mcbride Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 Per our man, and "Dat Dude", Marcellus Wiley... http://twitter.com/#!/marcelluswiley Wiley didnt play for Williams or anyone else from Budy Ryan's tree. Dont assume no one else is doing it just because you can trace it back to one guy. With the way coaches and players cycle around the league, behavior spreads pretty quickly. Wiley doesn't list any teams. Regardless, let's assume you're correct for a second. That makes it even worse. The sport has a violence problem, which is going to catch up with it sooner or later. Goodell knows this, which is why he's concerned. He should be. This whole thing reminds me of why i now prefer baseball--people (players, coaches, fans) rationalizing away demonstrably sociopathic behavior.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 Wiley doesn't list any teams. Regardless, let's assume you're correct for a second. That makes it even worse. The sport has a violence problem, which is going to catch up with it sooner or later. Goodell knows this, which is why he's concerned. He should be. This whole thing reminds me of why i now prefer baseball--people (players, coaches, fans) rationalizing away demonstrably sociopathic behavior. The sport has a violence problem?!?!? We're talking about FOOTBALL. It IS violent. Im really surprised at how many people would be better off watching the ballet. I dont want to see anyone's life ruined from an injury, but this is football. You know what you are getting into from the first time you strap on the pads. What's next? A slippery ice problem in hockey?
dave mcbride Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) The sport has a violence problem?!?!? We're talking about FOOTBALL. It IS violent. Im really surprised at how many people would be better off watching the ballet. I dont want to see anyone's life ruined from an injury, but this is football. You know what you are getting into from the first time you strap on the pads. What's next? A slippery ice problem in hockey? The fact that the sport is inherently violent does not mean that it should allow ultra-violence. That's an argumentative fallacy, like saying that the war shouldn't be subject to laws because of its extreme violence. The violence is there, to be sure, but it has to be managed. Otherwise, we may as well bring back gladiator fights. And yes, despite what some stupid commentators might suggest, there is a massive qualitative difference between nfl football and gladiatorial combat. Edited March 3, 2012 by dave mcbride
bbb Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 Conrad Dobler had to be persuaded to do something dirty? Now that's man bites dog news! http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/dirtiest/players.html There was a reason that Phil picked Conrad to be the one to do the job.
Mr. WEO Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 The sport has a violence problem?!?!? We're talking about FOOTBALL. It IS violent. Im really surprised at how many people would be better off watching the ballet. I dont want to see anyone's life ruined from an injury, but this is football. You know what you are getting into from the first time you strap on the pads. What's next? A slippery ice problem in hockey? Players know bounties are being placed on them with the specific goal to injure them, when they "strap on their pads"? Hands down this is the dumbest response to this subject yet.
jimmy10 Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 I'm more surprised that he thought he'd get away with it than I am at the fact that it happened at all. Telling members of a union to go out and incapacitate other members of that union? Yeah, that's not going to go over well.
papazoid Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 NFL can prepare for massive lawsuits from any player injured by the Saints...
K-9 Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 If New Orleans is so good and it's "just football afterall" and there was never any intent to purposely incapacitate an opponent, then why the "bounty" incentive in the first place? Isn't it a given that the players will play hard and within the rules in the first place? Why would a good player need that extra incentive if he was secure enough? F*ck the Saints and f*ck Gregg Williams. I hope the league imposes record-setting fines and penalties. GO SABRES!!!
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 The Saints have never struck me as a dirty team. I'm trying to remember Williams' D in Washington. Interesting you say that. I have gotten into arguments with my friends over this. None of us watch many Saints games. But every time I see them play, there always seems to be some really questionable after-the-play stuff going on, especially by their safeties. I think Adrian Peterson even accused them of twisting his injured ankle after every tackle. Plus, recall that Kurt Warner's career was ended by a blind-side (I would argue super cheap) block on an INT return.
Dr. Trooth Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) Shocking. Who'd have guessed? Well, let's not put too much thought on this. He comes from the Buddy Ryan School of Total Schittheadz, right? So, coaches in that fraternity have learned, encourage, and wear that stuff like a badge of honor. Go back and look at some video footage of bums in this fraternity. Would it surprise anyone to find that Jeff Fisher, Jim Schwarz, Chuck Cecil, Rex Ryan, Rob Ryan are all part of that Buddy Ryan Tree and that's all they know. Take that crap away from them and they might not even be average. Edited March 3, 2012 by Dr. Trooth
Beerball Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 Another former Bill weighs in And speculation about his time in Washington
DrDawkinstein Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) Players know bounties are being placed on them with the specific goal to injure them, when they "strap on their pads"? Hands down this is the dumbest response to this subject yet. To a certain extent, yes. As proven by the stream of players stating that this is commonplace and not a big deal. And more so, because they know and understand that they play a very violent sport. It's not a specific goal to injure, but it is to hurt. Bounty system or not, going out with an intent to inflict pain on the opponent IS the mindset that they put themselves in every week. It's at the very nature and core of the game. To deny that is just trying to put yourself on some highhorse, and shows how little you understand the game. Stop being naive. Just like there is no way there is any fixing going on in professional sports, right? Just as Bucky Brooks says above: In addressing the damning allegations of placing bounties on opposing players, I would like to believe the Saints instituted policies that rewarded defenders for hard but clean shots that separated ball carriers from the ball. These "knockout" shots, as we called them, were not inflicted with the intent to injure, but rather to establish a physical tone that created hesitation and fear in the minds of offensive players venturing across the middle of the field. Everyone who is pretending to be up in arms about this, needs to get off their high horse. Edited March 3, 2012 by DrDareustein
papazoid Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 NFL can prepare for massive lawsuits from any player injured by the Saints... here we go... Dungy: Gregg Williams’ Redskins may have started Peyton Manning’s neck issues: By the time the "BountyGate" scandal investigation is over, the only thing former New Orleans Saints defensive coordinator Gregg Williams might not have been blamed for is whatever gas prices happen to be at that time. Last September, Cindy Boren of the Washington Post wrote an article in which ex-Indianapolis Colts head coach Tony Dungy put the start of Peyton Manning's longstanding neck injuries and surgeries at a game between the Colts and the Redskins on October 22, 2006. On one play, Manning was given a "high-low" hit by defensive linemen Andre Carter and Phillip Daniels. Those types of hits, in which two defensive players aim for different halves of an offensive player's body, are among the most dangerous in football. After the play, Manning lay on the ground for a brief time, got up, and as Dungy told Peter King of SI.com and NBC Sports last September, shook his right arm "as if trying to get the feeling back in it." http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/dungy-gregg-williams-redskins-may-started-peyton-manning-163634407.html
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 Bucky Brooks literally says "I would like to believe" and you conclude that the people offended by this are "pretending?"
DrDawkinstein Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 Bucky Brooks literally says "I would like to believe" and you conclude that the people offended by this are "pretending?" Read the article... To illustrate that point, I will point to an example from my time with the Kansas City Chiefs during which we routinely would reward players with framed pictures of their big hits in team meetings. This certainly didn't promote dirty play or encourage defenders to play beyond the whistle, but receiving recognition for a bone-jarring hit definitely was motivating.
ICanSleepWhenI'mDead Posted March 3, 2012 Posted March 3, 2012 (edited) Buy a dictionary! I'm not offended by framed pictures of big hits being used as a motivational tool by a different team. Edited March 3, 2012 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead
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