Now Greg Williams is a cheater?

[NoSaint]

Can't link since I'm on my phone but Tim Graham has former Bills players saying it happened here as well. Now how do you all feel?

 

If you tally up the players on record and coaches linked to it I think you can include about half the teams in the league at this point having some tie in the last 5-10 years.

 

Gregg has coached Washington, Tennessee, jax, buffalo and new Orleans in that time, merriman put SD on the list, woody put NE, lions and NYJ on, sharper added they did it everywhere he's played which adds minny and the pack. That's 11 teams already and I haven't read or watched anything outside this thread since last night. If you assume the Ryan brothers have done similar as their father is credited by many as the main example that adds Baltimore, Dallas, Cleveland, Oakland?

 

Even if not 100% accurate I think most of you should get the idea here.

Edited March 4, 2012 by NoSaint

[stevestojan]

If he did it in buff should there be consequence here too?

Yes, they'll take away all of our playoff wins both during and since his tenure. Harsh.

[K-9]

Everyone who is pretending to be up in arms about this, needs to get off their high horse.

 

Bullsh*t! The object of the game is to tackle, not achieve a "cart off" or "knockout." Was Williams just being "cute" with the language? Why not just offer incentives for sacks and tackles, etc.? Oh, they're already included in their contracts as performance clauses. So why the explicit language then?

 

There's also a thing called simple sportsmanship which seems to be lost on many nowadays. If my kid were being coached like this I'd rip his coach a new one.

 

Also, I think any team that does this is just comprised of a team full of p*ssies. If Greg William and the New Orleans Saints are afraid of beating a team with their best players, then I don't need to say any more about what a chickensh*t practice the "bounty" system is.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[NoSaint]

Bullsh*t! The object of the game is to tackle, not achieve a "cart off" or "knockout." Was Williams just being "cute" with the language? Why not just offer incentives for sacks and tackles, etc.? Oh, they're already included in their contracts as performance clauses. So why the explicit language then?

 

There's also a thing called simple sportsmanship which seems to be lost on many nowadays. If my kid were being coached like this I'd rip his coach a new one.

 

Also, I think any team that does this is just comprised of a team full of p*ssies. If Greg William and the New Orleans Saints are afraid of beating a team with their best players, then I don't need to say any more about what a chickensh*t practice the "bounty" system is.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

What players were carted off in saints games the last 3 years? I'm sure someone has been, I just don't remember anything offhand

Edited March 4, 2012 by NoSaint

[bbb]

Oh, well - there goes our pick at #10:

 

Tim Graham ‏ @ByTimGraham

Retweet

Posted soon at BuffaloNews.com, former Bills players say Gregg Williams promoted rewards for big plays and injuring opponents.

[BRH]

I'm talking about this whole cracking down on head hits/concussion awareness time that keeps gaining steam.

 

Years ago, this wouldn't have been much news.........I remember this story about the '80 Bills where there was a players meeting and Villapiano wanted a guy on defense knocked out of the game, and said Dobler had to do it.....Dobler said No, he can't do it, and then Villapiano and the rest of the players kept at him until he finally promised the guy was going to get knocked out. And, then he did........I don't think they revealed who that player was.

Might have been defensive tackle John Dutton of the Cowboys, because in that game I recall Dobler got three personal fouls for leg-whipping the guy, and on the third put him out of not only the game but the season. AND forced Dutton to have emergency leg surgery for a busted blood vessel. Dobler swore after the game that it was an "accident." If you believe THAT...

 

Oh, well - there goes our pick at #10:

 

Tim Graham ‏ @ByTimGraham

Retweet

Posted soon at BuffaloNews.com, former Bills players say Gregg Williams promoted rewards for big plays and injuring opponents.

He must not have paid them enough then.

[bbb]

Might have been defensive tackle John Dutton of the Cowboys, because in that game I recall Dobler got three personal fouls for leg-whipping the guy, and on the third put him out of not only the game but the season. AND forced Dutton to have emergency leg surgery for a busted blood vessel. Dobler swore after the game that it was an "accident." If you believe THAT...

 

That could have been the game. I remember that one on MNF. But, as I remember it we were out of it by the time Dobler was doing all the leg whipping, and it really wasn't going to help us win. But, I guess a promise is a promise.

 

I didn't realize he got hurt. I just remember all the penalties.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Maybe be cheating maybe not. But it's clearly bad sportsmanship and unfortunate its going on.

[bbb]

Here's the Buffalo News story by Tim Graham about the bounties the Bills had under Greggo:

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article747663.ece

[dave mcbride]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/sports/football/former-jets-player-calls-bounties-inmates-governing-themselves.html?ref=sports

 

Across the league, the reaction was wide and varied, as the scandal received more and more national attention. Some players agreed with Pryce. Others, like the retired defensive tackle Kris Jenkins, who played 10 seasons for the Panthers and the Jets, felt outrage, or disbelief. When Jenkins saw that other players were not surprised with the Saints’ bounty system, he said he must have played “my whole career with blinders on.”

 

Jenkins said he was surprised. He said the Saints’ transgressions were worse than the New England Patriots’ videotaping scandal. He said such bounties cut directly to the integrity of professional football.

 

“The Saints are saying there’s no integrity there,” Jenkins said. “I’m all about inflicting pain to the point of submission. But I’m not going out there to hurt people. Players have wives. They have families. Now, there is pressure on the N.F.L. to remedy this situation. The league is in a tight predicament.”

 

Told that other players compared the Saints’ system to informal incentive programs used by other teams, Jenkins said: “That’s a tremendous leap between giving money to a guy for making a play and getting someone hurt. Trying to take a guy’s career from him, that’s not football. That’s something else. That’s criminal.”

 

In his career, Jenkins sustained four serious injuries (three knee, one shoulder) that prematurely ended seasons. On Saturday, he said he believed opponents went after his injured areas upon his return, although he did not name names. The investigation into the Saints, Jenkins said, aroused his curiosity as to whether anyone received money for injuring him. But if another team put such a bounty on his injury, Jenkins said, “at this point, I don’t want to know about it.”

[bbb]

Tony Kornheiser says every once in awhile - they're going to be playing these games on barges in 30 years.

[dave mcbride]

Here's the Buffalo News story by Tim Graham about the bounties the Bills had under Greggo:

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article747663.ece

Nice piece. Williams is one of the true scumbags of professional sports. What an indictment of Donohoe.

[K-9]

What players were carted off in saints games the last 3 years? I'm sure someone has been, I just don't remember anything offhand

 

You are completely missing the point. Why would Williams insist on using that kind of language in his 'bounty' system in the first place? What possible purpose does that serve? Why does a coach or a player have to do anything but play as hard as he can and make good, clean tackles? Because Williams and his chickensh*t bounty system seeks to take it one step further. That is the clear message and INCENTIVE being sent.

 

Bush league, chickensh*t and cowardly.

 

F*CK the Saints.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[BuffaloBillsSD]

You are completely missing the point. Why would Williams insist on using that kind of language in his 'bounty' system in the first place? What possible purpose does that serve? Why does a coach or a player have to do anything but play as hard as he can and make good, clean tackles? Because Williams and his chickensh*t bounty system seeks to take it one step further. That is the clear message and INCENTIVE being sent.

 

Bush league, chickensh*t and cowardly.

 

!@#$ the Saints.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

It has come out that this was done with the Bills as well, where is you !@#$ the Bills tag?

[K-9]

It has come out that this was done with the Bills as well, where is you !@#$ the Bills tag?

 

And !@#$ the Bills the entire time he coached them as well.

 

Happy?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[DrDawkinstein]

You are completely missing the point. Why would Williams insist on using that kind of language in his 'bounty' system in the first place? What possible purpose does that serve? Why does a coach or a player have to do anything but play as hard as he can and make good, clean tackles? Because Williams and his chickensh*t bounty system seeks to take it one step further. That is the clear message and INCENTIVE being sent.

 

Bush league, chickensh*t and cowardly.

 

!@#$ the Saints.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

Exactly what language was used? Id like to see these documents so I can make a decision for myself. Thanks!

[NoSaint]

You are completely missing the point. Why would Williams insist on using that kind of language in his 'bounty' system in the first place? What possible purpose does that serve? Why does a coach or a player have to do anything but play as hard as he can and make good, clean tackles? Because Williams and his chickensh*t bounty system seeks to take it one step further. That is the clear message and INCENTIVE being sent.

 

Bush league, chickensh*t and cowardly.

 

F*CK the Saints.

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

 

Ultimately if it was to incentivize dirty hits, it was a poor system as the fines would be 10 times or more than the reward. Unless I missed them paying for that too (possible, but I haven't heard it yet)

 

Was it poor form? sure. Was it in locker room old school football language that sounds terrible at your dinner table? Clearly. But until I see something pointing towards dirty hits I'm not going to freak out about it. How many threads have we seen about needing more attitude and players that seek big hits that get in the other teams head (and yes, maybe even hurt them). Half this board loved fairley and his dirty rep coming out last year, many loved suh terrorizing qbs.

 

My point is that this was to encourage aggressive play and gamechanging plays. This wasn't about late hits, hits that would be fined or flagged, etc.... From what I have seen so far.

 

I'm not going to celebrate the policy by any means. It was wrong and I think it clearly got a bit out of control but I do think it's relevant that if were discussing payment for injuries that generally there weren't more devastating injuries than any other team and the hits were generally in line with what you see around the league.

 

I love the media coverage on this - read a couple articles a minute ago and two had pictures of sed Ellis hitting Warner..... The play pictured finishes with Ellis making sure Warner doesn't even fall down, as he and another dlineman catch him and hold him up.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

No big deal? Do you think there is anything ambiguous about the terms "knockout" and "cart off?" They were DELIBERATELY coached and, even more disgustingly, PAID to willfully injure an opposing player. And you have no problem with that? It shows an utter lack of respect for the game in general and fellow players (HUMAN BEINGS) in particular. I amazed anyone could be ok with this.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Remember when the Jets DB's were accused of having a bet on who could knock Don Beebe out of a game? The next day at work the whole lunch room was talking (about 50 people), I I casually said that I wasn't the least bit surprised and that they are ALWAYS trying to knock guys out of a game. THE WHOLE LUNCH ROOM FREAKED OUT ON ME!They shouted me down and, as a temp worker, ostracized me. I never said I thought it was right, but I just wondered what it was people thought these guys are trying to do out there. I don't think anyone is trying to PERMANENTLY, or SERIOUSLY injure people(even with the bounties), but they sure as hell are trying to hit the guy hard enough that he can't finish the game.

 

What is it you think these guys are trying to do when they run full speed at a guy, and drive him into the ground? I think you have your head in the sand.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Matthews' Bag

[K-9]

...My point is that this was to encourage aggressive play and gamechanging plays....

 

Then leave it at that. You don't have to add specific language like, "x amount for a 'knockout' and x amount for a 'cart off." That violates the spirit of the game on every level.

 

Coaching is all about "encouraging aggressive play" and there is nothing wrong with it. That's the essence of the game. Having a 'bounty' system with explicit criteria for knocking a player out of the game is not. Not even close. The object of the game is NOT to knock the opponent out of the game. It's chickensh*t to the core.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/michael_mccann/03/03/saints.bounty.system/index.html?sct=nfl_t11_a0

 

The New Orleans Saints and their players, coaches and front office personnel are likely to receive harsh sanctions from NFL commissioner Roger Goodell for the dangerous bounty system they employed over the last few seasons. Lengthy suspensions, hefty fines and forfeiture of draft picks are all on the table. Their real worries, however, may come in court rooms, as the bounty system arguably broke the law. SI.com legal analyst Michael McCann breaks down the potential legal fallout.

 

As mentioned elsewhere in the SI article, Michael McCann is a sports law professor at the Vermont Law School. While I think criminal prosecution is unlikely, it's not impossible.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Beerball