Now Greg Williams is a cheater?

[Mike in Horseheads]

As someone else mentioned, the Saints have no first round pick this year.

I think the Pats have the pick, can they take that it would make it even better! Just asking...

Edited March 2, 2012 by Mike in Horseheads

[silvermike]

 

There's a difference between "hurt" and "injured" that I believe is being blurred here. I honestly dont believe that any Saints player wanted to seriously injure a fellow player. However, you can hurt them so they cant perform as well. And you can do so, while playing completely within the rules.

 

It's the attitude that good defenses have.

 

The bounties appear to be for "cart-offs" and "knockouts." That's not collisions so fierce your opponent feels it in his bones until training camp, that's going after season-enders.

[Bufcomments]

I played the same position. Hurting someone never entered my thoughts. Knocking down and humiliating them, sure. But I never consciously thought about hurting them.

By hurt I mean put a big hit on the guy, make him think about the next hit coming.

 

That's what i meant by hurting the guy. Like you I didn't mean to hurt anybody in the real sence , maybe rock their world a bit .

Edited March 2, 2012 by Bufcomments

[ndirish1978]

I'm surprised people are so outraged at this. This has been going on around the league for years. If you don't think half the teams in the league don't have player funded "bonuses" maybe not for injuries, but for knocking someone out of the game, I think you're naive. Head hunting has been going on since forever.

[silvermike]

By hurt I mean put a big hit on the guy, make him think about the next hit coming.

 

That's what i meant by hurting the guy. Like you I didn't mean to hurt anybody in the real sence , maybe rock their world a bit .

 

Yeah, I think I see what you mean. Playing football hurts, and it's a hard physical game. Getting blocked hurts, getting tackled hurts, hell, delivering a block hurts. Of course the players should go at those things with gusto. But the line is drawn between making plays and playing hard, and deliberately attacking someone specifically in order to take them out of the game. Head, neck, knees: those are the injuries that can end your season. Or worse.

[zonabb]

Man, what a bunch of PC BS going on here right now.

 

Is to wrong to target and injuried player's injury? Is it wrong to try to hit someone as hard as you can, knowing injuries WILL, not CAN, WILL happen? So what the difference? I'm just confused how people are appalled that in a game where injuries are common place and players KNOW injuries happen and KNOW paralysis is a possibility yet still play by choice, that somehow this is problematic.

 

It's one of the simplest laws in economics... people respond to incentives. If a team's chances to win are increased when an opposing top player gets hurt, there is an incentive to hurt him. If you offer a cash incentive to a player for a cart-off or knockout, they'll repond to than incentive. Why? Because in all honesty, they're trying hurt the opposing player anyway. Sure, they all say that they never try to intentionally hurt anyone but that's as PC as this thread.

 

Funny, most people love listening to the retired players who said they wanted to hurt opposing players but someone this goes beyond that as someone criminal. Give me an effin break. The game is savage, played by people who are wreckless and accept the game's injury potential. The form of the game, the money at stake and the egos involved make this not just within the realm of possibility, but inevitable.

 

Any as Woody said in not to explicit terms "nothing to see here."

[bbb]

Here's a great humblebrag tweet from Shawne Merrimen:

 

Why is this a big deal now? Bounties been going on forever. A "Bounty" left me with a torn PCL and LCL in my knee check the 07' Titans game I was pissed I had to play in the pro bowl with that knee like that lol #Stillhere

shawnemerriman

A Tweet by @shawnemerriman

[silvermike]

Here's a great humblebrag tweet from Shawne Merrimen:

 

Why is this a big deal now? Bounties been going on forever. A "Bounty" left me with a torn PCL and LCL in my knee check the 07' Titans game I was pissed I had to play in the pro bowl with that knee like that lol #Stillhere

shawnemerriman

A Tweet by @shawnemerriman

 

Merriman's 6 sacks in the next 80 team-games played really show how much he's overcome that hit.

[NoSaint]

How long til someone covers that jeff fisher of the Nfls competition committee has hired him 3 times to coach his defenses?

 

Merriman's 6 sacks in the next 80 team-games played really show how much he's overcome that hit.

 

But relevant here is it sounds like buffalo and San Diego can be added to the list with Washington, new Orleans, Tennessee and if you believe woody, new England and the jets? This is what's come out in 3 hours since the story broke?

[auburnbillsbacker]

Peter King said the saints punishment will be more severe than what the patriots received for the spy gate scandal.

[bbb]

They sure picked a bad time for this to come out.

[NoSaint]

Peter King said the saints punishment will be more severe than what the patriots received for the spy gate scandal.

 

Hard to do with players and teams going on record as doing it. Just cut the first round of the draft and take a mill from every owner to cover the PR?

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

They sure picked a bad time for this to come out.

Just curious why you think so? People who post here at this time of year may be hard core football types, but casual NFL fans are probably following basketball and/or hockey now.

 

Free agency starts in a few days - - it seems likely that breaking free agent signing news will get the spotlight then.

 

If you were an NFL exec with the power to choose when this story broke, when would you release it?

[NoSaint]

Just curious why you think so? People who post here at this time of year may be hard core football types, but casual NFL fans are probably following basketball and/or hockey now.

 

Free agency starts in a few days - - it seems likely that breaking free agent signing news will get the spotlight then.

 

If you were an NFL exec with the power to choose when this story broke, when would you release it?

 

Agreed- Friday night a week before free agency is the definition of keeping it as small as possible.

 

Breaking coverage while fans are out and about for the weekend. A couple of days coverage then FA

Edited March 3, 2012 by NoSaint

[todd]

Bah. Anyone who has played contact sports knows you don't try to purposefully hurt someone. There's a difference between physical and trying to cause damage. People who don't see that are idiots. Don't be one of those idiots.

 

This IS a big deal. It is horrible. How you can not call it a big deal is beyond me.

This is why I said "no big deal". Everyone who is going nuts about this sounds like they have never played the game before. Because if they had, they'd know that football is a physical game played on a lot of emotion, and you already have this mindset for those 60 minutes you are on the field.

 

Now, Im not advocating leading with the crown, or twisting a player's leg. But the team that physically dominates and imposes it's will, wins. The point is to win. Therefore, I want my team in a mindset to destroy the other guys.

 

If this was really a big deal, there would be players from other teams speaking out about how dirty the Saints are. But outside of that beating they (rightfully) put on Favre, I havent seen them accused of cheap-shotting guys.

[DrDawkinstein]

Bah. Anyone who has played contact sports knows you don't try to purposefully hurt someone. There's a difference between physical and trying to cause damage. People who don't see that are idiots. Don't be one of those idiots.

 

This IS a big deal. It is horrible. How you can not call it a big deal is beyond me.

 

If this was causing players to cheap shot guys and injure them, then why arent the Saints getting fined and suspended on a regular basis like Suh and Harrison? The Saints dont even lead in personal fouls.

 

And yes you do try to hurt people, just not injure them. There is a difference, and players know and talk about it.

 

Playing Lacrosse in high school, I was one of the cleanest players on the field. Never took a penalty in 3 years starting on Defense. But I knocked a number of kids out of games, and took pride in every one (as long as they werent seriously injured). Same in Rugby.

 

Again, I really think this is blown out of proportion, and didnt change the way the players played in any way.

[NoSaint]

If this was causing players to cheap shot guys and injure them, then why arent the Saints getting fined and suspended on a regular basis like Suh and Harrison? The Saints dont even lead in personal fouls.

 

And yes you do try to hurt people, just not injure them. There is a difference, and players know and talk about it.

 

Playing Lacrosse in high school, I was one of the cleanest players on the field. Never took a penalty in 3 years starting on Defense. But I knocked a number of kids out of games, and took pride in every one (as long as they werent seriously injured). Same in Rugby.

 

Again, I really think this is blown out of proportion, and didnt change the way the players played in any way.

 

Agreed- I think it was more about attitude and swagger than it is cheap shots and late hits in his case. Big difference in my book.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Apparently the issue is confusing unless you recognize that there are two separate issues:

 

1) Bounties for big plays (as Darren Sharper explained, sacks, ints, passes defensed, FF, FR, etc)

2) Bounties with intent to injure

 

One of Greg(g) Williams' former players in the Washington Post article said: "You got compensated more for a kill shot than you did other hits"

Another player said: "If you took the star player out, he'd hook you up a little bit," another player admitted, while also defending Williams.

 

When players are encouraged to take cheap shots outside the rules it is a big deal.

 

When players are monetarily encouraged by their coaches to have a disregard for the careers of other players, it is a big deal.

 

If this was simply about hitting people cleanly as hard as possible, it wouldn't be the issue that it is.

 

At this early juncture the bounty story does not sound to me like the promotion of clean play.

 

Gregg Williams' apology:

 

"I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, Mr. Benson, and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the 'pay for performance' program while I was with the Saints," Williams said. "It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role. I am truly sorry. I have learned a hard lesson and I guarantee that I will never participate in or allow this kind of activity to happen again."

 

http://profootballta...rrible-mistake/

 

I'm not outraged or surprised.

 

But it's amazing to me that some people here think that there's no difference between playing hard and playing dirty… that there's no difference between a violent sport and a dirty sport.

 

Have you ever witnessed an NFL player "losing it" because he thought that the opponent was going for his knees and trying to take him out?

 

Pro football players accept the risks that come with playing the world's most dangerous sport.

 

They should never, nor should the fans, accept that the sport they play is dirty and that careers could end on a cheap shot encouraged by a coach.

 

If this is indeed part of the culture which now exists, it's yet another symptom of the decay of professional sports.

Edited March 3, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan

[NoSaint]

Apparently the issue is confusing unless you recognize that there are two separate issues:

 

1) Bounties for big plays (as Darren Sharper explained, sacks, ints, passes defensed, FF, FR, etc)

2) Bounties with intent to injure

 

One of Greg(g) Williams' former players in the Washington Post article said: "You got compensated more for a kill shot than you did other hits"

Another player said: "If you took the star player out, he'd hook you up a little bit," another player admitted, while also defending Williams.

 

When players are encouraged to take cheap shots outside the rules it is a big deal.

 

When players are monetarily encouraged by their coaches to have a disregard for the careers of other players, it is a big deal.

 

If this was simply about hitting people cleanly as hard as possible, it wouldn't be the issue that it is.

 

At this early juncture the bounty story does not sound to me like the promotion of clean play.

 

Gregg Williams' apology:

 

"I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, Mr. Benson, and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the 'pay for performance' program while I was with the Saints," Williams said. "It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role. I am truly sorry. I have learned a hard lesson and I guarantee that I will never participate in or allow this kind of activity to happen again."

 

http://profootballta...rrible-mistake/

 

I'm not outraged or surprised.

 

But it's amazing to me that some people here think that there's no difference between playing hard and playing dirty… that there's no difference between a violent sport and a dirty sport.

 

Have you ever witnessed an NFL player "losing it" because he thought that the opponent was going for his knees and trying to take him out?

 

Pro football players accept the risks that come with playing the world's most dangerous sport.

 

They should never, nor should the fans, accept that the sport they play is dirty and that careers could end on a cheap shot encouraged by a coach.

 

If this is indeed part of the culture which now exists, it's yet another symptom of the decay of professional sports.

 

It's a fine line. I've watches every snap for the 3 years and saw more hard hits than dirty and nearly nothing late, very little from safeties going high. Harper hitting the qb is a crapshoot but generally hit to hurt and hit dirty is different. Fine line though.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

It's a fine line. I've watches every snap for the 3 years and saw more hard hits than dirty and nearly nothing late, very little from safeties going high. Harper hitting the qb is a crapshoot but generally hit to hurt and hit dirty is different. Fine line though.

The Saints have never struck me as a dirty team.

 

I'm trying to remember Williams' D in Washington.