Cash Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 We all know that the league is becoming more pass oriented. Some people(incorrectly) see that as a need for a stud cornerback... ...The answer in pass defense is get quality pass rushers and quantity cornerbacks. It's not that I really disagree with what the OP is saying, but it really strikes me as a combination of hyperbole and a strawman. When exactly was the "Age of the shutdown corner"? And how many shutdown corners were actually in the league at that time? 3? Right now, there are two: Revis and Asomugha (although Nnamdi maybe shouldn't count since he's not used as a shutdown corner in Philly's defense). What was this magical time when a team could just put "shutdown corner" on its shopping list and expect to find one? They are very rare, have always been very rare (usually 0-2 active in any particular season), and are extremely valuable. But no matter how valuable Revis is, there's only 1 of him, and the vast majority of fans recognize that. Who are all these people that the OP claims are calling for a stud cornerback? They aren't posting a lot on this board, that's for sure. To sum up: I agree with the OP's main idea that top resources are better spent on pass rushers rather than cornerbacks, but I don't care for the way the author chose to present his argument. No offense intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonborn10 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Get to the QB consistently, hit the QB, disrupt the QB's timing, sack him and bat down his passes. The Giants did that for 60 mins on Brady and it worked. Don't care who the QB is...it works. Dareus and KW will collapse the middle. We just need two DE's to do the rest ...I say just...but that's the deal. Agree! And rush up the middle seems to be what QB's least like. A healthy KW will make Dareus an all-pro this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) I actually agree with most of what you say, but you're forgetting one thing, I think. The five-wide game is still predicated on the ten play drive, and as you know, a lot of things can kill a drive on any one play. (The Pats are the exception here because they play such mistake free ball.) Hence the reason why teams really want a home run threat receiver who is big, fast, and can get open deep "even when he's not open." Having a guy who can minimize the impact of a true stud receiver (Revis certainly fits the bill) is genuinely valuable. Teams like Detroit score so much because on any given play Stafford can simply throw deep and know that Johnson has a strong likelihood of winning his match against the Leodis McKelvins of the world even if Leodis is blanketing him. a great Cb makes that play a lot more difficult. Also, near the goal lone, having a guy who can match up with the stud helps to turn sevens into threes. That said, I agree, pass rushing DEs are more valuable and smart teams should prioritize them. Edited March 5, 2012 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) I actually agree with most of what you say, but you're forgetting one thing, I think. The five-wide game is still predicated on the ten play drive, and as you know, a lot of things can kill a drive on any one play. (The Pats are the exception here because they play such mistake free ball.) Hence the reason why teams really want a home run threat receiver who is big, fast, and can get open deep "even when he's not open." Having a guy who can minimize the impact of a true stud receiver (Revis certainly fits the bill) is genuinely valuable. Teams like Detroit score so much because on any given play Stafford can simply throw deep and know that Johnson has a strong likelihood of winning his match against the Leodis McKelvins of the world even if Leodis is blanketing him. a great Cb makes that play a lot more difficult. Also, near the goal lone, having a guy who can match up with the stud helps to turn sevens into threes. That said, I agree, pass rushing DEs are more valuable and smart teams should prioritize them. So your contention is that a top cornerback is still going to cover well? I never disagreed with that. I'm not sure that a guy with 4.3 speed and swivel hips is that necessary at the goal line...as Dave suggests...I think he is off point in that regard. I think that the closer you get to the goal line the more the defense becomes about penetration. That has always been the case. Smaller field to cover means less coverge ability needed. Calvin Johnson is a rarity now. A decade ago there were quite a few HOF type #1 WR in the league. True standouts heading up the league's most explosive pass offenses. That's not really the case now. GB, NE, NYG, SD and NO.........the Colts with Manning two years ago and even the Vikings with Favre 3 seasons ago..........these teams did not feature the kind of #1 receiver you are talking about. The kind of guy who demands great coverage and who, if shut down, can bring a passing game to a halt. And I did say that shutdown cornerbacks were always rare and there is a LOT of support here for drafting Morris Claiborne.....you should read the board more often. But back to the point: Is that star cornerback still worth $15M per year when there are 4 other receivers yet to cover instead of 1 or 2? As always, it comes down to money. With so many db's required in coverage, the quality of your front 7.....which is actually a front 6 or even front 5 very often now......is paramount. Edited March 6, 2012 by Dick Drawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I actually agree with most of what you say, but you're forgetting one thing, I think. The five-wide game is still predicated on the ten play drive, and as you know, a lot of things can kill a drive on any one play. (The Pats are the exception here because they play such mistake free ball.) Hence the reason why teams really want a home run threat receiver who is big, fast, and can get open deep "even when he's not open." Having a guy who can minimize the impact of a true stud receiver (Revis certainly fits the bill) is genuinely valuable. Teams like Detroit score so much because on any given play Stafford can simply throw deep and know that Johnson has a strong likelihood of winning his match against the Leodis McKelvins of the world even if Leodis is blanketing him. a great Cb makes that play a lot more difficult. Also, near the goal lone, having a guy who can match up with the stud helps to turn sevens into threes. That said, I agree, pass rushing DEs are more valuable and smart teams should prioritize them. I replied to a lot of your take in the post above. The third corner is essentially a starter nowadays, the fourth is now the third down substitution. With that in mind, it becomes a dollars and cents issue. One defensive back is not capable of taking away 1/3 of the passing options any longer. I agree that 10 play drives are going to be needed. They are much easier to string together now though. I also happen to think that the Bills don't NEED a big time receiver added to their lineup. More quality would do the trick and keep the budget intact for QB/LT/DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) I replied to a lot of your take in the post above. The third corner is essentially a starter nowadays, the fourth is now the third down substitution. With that in mind, it becomes a dollars and cents issue. One defensive back is not capable of taking away 1/3 of the passing options any longer. I agree that 10 play drives are going to be needed. They are much easier to string together now though. I also happen to think that the Bills don't NEED a big time receiver added to their lineup. More quality would do the trick and keep the budget intact for QB/LT/DL. I don't think they need a stud either, but they do need a better #2 than what they currently have. I suspect they're hopng that Easley, who they're allegedly high on, is the next Jimmy Smith. We'll have to see. As for good CBs near the goal line, guys who can cover the fade etc are very valuable. Not many do it well (e.g., McKelvin, who gets picked on mercilessly). As for stud WRs currently out there, there are some. Obviously there's Johnson and Fitzgerald, but I've been impressed by D. Thomas from Denver. He looks like the real deal. AJ Green too, and Brandon Marshall on a good day is uncoverable. There are some other studs out there. I don't think the situation is any worse now than it was a few years ago, actually. Edited March 6, 2012 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Don't equate pass rush football with smashmouth football. Not the same. The Giants don't play smashmouth, they had a worst ranked defense statistically than the Bills. That is solely because it includes a part of the season where the Giants defense was torn up by injuries. When healthy, they may have had the best D in the game, and it was definitely smashmouth. Was it great? No. But it was very good. As to one of your other points, while the league has definitely gone Offense, the other reasons teams can't field a good defense year after year is free agency and the plethora of injuries that has become commonplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeyBomb Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 The age of the shutdown corner is only dead because of Stevie Johnson. If he weren't a receiver, and worked at a gay strip club in SF, Revis would still be a shut down CB in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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