Dave_In_Norfolk Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 AIPAC is meeting this week and demanding we act against their enemy, Netanyahu is in Washington to pressure our government to attack his enemy and it looks like Congress has been beaten into submission on the issue. I hope Obama stands firm against this insiders game to manuver us into a war that is not in our interests at all. We can't afford it, we don't need the blow back and if Israel wants to do, more power to them, but leave us out of it. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/world/middleeast/israels-backers-in-aipac-press-obama-to-harden-iran-policy.html?hp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 AIPAC is meeting this week and demanding we act against their enemy, Netanyahu is in Washington to pressure our government to attack his enemy and it looks like Congress has been beaten into submission on the issue. I hope Obama stands firm against this insiders game to manuver us into a war that is not in our interests at all. We can't afford it, we don't need the blow back and if Israel wants to do, more power to them, but leave us out of it. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/04/world/middleeast/israels-backers-in-aipac-press-obama-to-harden-iran-policy.html?hp Obama stand firm? LOL LOL- our only hope is Obama Convinces the Zionist lobby that he'll support an attack right after the election, then after the election he forgets all about that promise, he's good at that - the fact that a country the size of Taiwan with a population less than NYC somehow dictates US foreign policy is a travesty, that a country that has been sucking on the American tit for 50 years has the balls to come to Washington and throw it's weight around is absurd. How is AIPAC even legal? can any country have a lobbying organization that influences American politics by throwing money around? What the !@#$ are the Chinese thinking why not just come over and buy US politicians like everybody else does? it's pretty inexpensive because not only are our politicians whores they are cheap whores to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Same old, same old Obama March 04, 2012 If this report is correct, the ideas that President Obama presents to Prime Minister Netanyahu at the White House on Monday will look very much like the ideas he presented to him in 2009. Same old, same old. He was wrong from the git-go, and still is. But facts dont stand a chance. As a Democrat who speaks to Obama about the Mideast told me, he has a stubborn worldview. How stubborn will be revealed today and tomorrow during crucial meetings with Israeli leaders. The Iranian march to nukes will top the agenda, but Obamas view on Iran is typical of how he sees the region and his role in it. Stripped of nuance, the gist is that Israel and America are oppressors and Muslims are oppressed. He remains obsessed with the idea that all will be well if only we prove to Muslims that were not bigots. The latest example is his apology to Afghans after our soldiers mistakenly burned the Koran. Six soldiers have been murdered in subsequent riots, yet he insists those involved in the burning face military charges. His approach to Iran is similarly misguided. Despite its thugocracy, he refuses to accept that his policy of engagement has failed. The White House even says it sees Iran as a rational actor, and Obama told The Atlantic that military action against Iran could work to its advantage. At a time when there is not a lot of sympathy for Iran and its only real ally [syria] is on the ropes, do we want a distraction in which suddenly Iran can portray itself as a victim? he asked. Huh? This is Obama at his faculty-lounge worst. Trapped by his own prejudices and misreading of history and culture, he continues to suggest that Iran is open to persuasion if he can find the right words. Its not. Its an evil regime that tortures its people, kills American soldiers, sponsors terrorism and wants a nuclear bomb to use against Israel and to dominate Arab countries. I wonder if he'll try to sell Netanyahu on linkage again. What could go wrong? Israel Matzav . Edited March 4, 2012 by B-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) No one here on this board knows what Israel should or shouldn't do, we aren't privy to the information that they are. Anyone who opposes or pushes an attack on Israel is only trying to advance their own narrow agenda. What I do know is that our elecions here in the US shouldn't factor in at all in the calculations of what Israel should or shoud not do. Another point that I'd like to make is that I think it's absurd for anyone to suggest that Israel should follow what the US deems worthy of the best response for their own safety. Edited March 4, 2012 by Magox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_In_Norfolk Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 Israel Matzav . Wow, and where is Romney on this? Why isn't he more forecfully campaining to get us into another war? If this is anywhere near close to as important as this op-ed suggests, shouldn't Mitt-o be stepping up to the plate and offering us war, war debt and higher gas prices? AIPAC seems to think it's worth fighting to the last American, why doesn't Mitt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 No one here on this board knows what Israel should or shouldn't do, we aren't privy to the information that they are. Anyone who opposes or pushes an attack on Israel is only trying to advance their own narrow agenda. What I do know is that our elecions here in the US shouldn't factor in at all in the calculations of what Israel should or shoud not do. Another point that I'd like to make is that I think it's absurd for anyone to suggest that Israel should follow what the US deems worthy of the best response for their own safety. I guess every country should do what they think is in their best interest but if American interests diverge from Israeli interests I expect American leaders to put American interests first, if not then they are traitors and should be treated as traitors. If Obama had any balls he'd say attack Iran if you must but you will be on your own and you will not be allowed to fly over Iraqi Air Space. An Israeli attack on Iran will Immediately put Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan in jeopardy, and what it will do to oil prices will probably push the world economy back into recession,and what the oil prices will do to food prices will be a disaster in the poorer countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I guess every country should do what they think is in their best interest but if American interests diverge from Israeli interests I expect American leaders to put American interests first, if not then they are traitors and should be treated as traitors. If Obama had any balls he'd say attack Iran if you must but you will be on your own and you will not be allowed to fly over Iraqi Air Space. An Israeli attack on Iran will Immediately put Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan in jeopardy, and what it will do to oil prices will probably push the world economy back into recession,and what the oil prices will do to food prices will be a disaster in the poorer countries. US interests will rarely diverge from Israeli interests, if only because it's our only stable, democratic ally in the Middle East. And Holocaust guilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I guess every country should do what they think is in their best interest but if American interests diverge from Israeli interests I expect American leaders to put American interests first, if not then they are traitors and should be treated as traitors. If Obama had any balls he'd say attack Iran if you must but you will be on your own and you will not be allowed to fly over Iraqi Air Space. An Israeli attack on Iran will Immediately put Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan in jeopardy, and what it will do to oil prices will probably push the world economy back into recession,and what the oil prices will do to food prices will be a disaster in the poorer countries. That's fine, he would either be rewarded for making that "bold" decision or suffer the consequences. What those rewards or consequences would consist of? I have no idea, but I would venture to take a guess that your stance is neither feasible or practical considering the ties we have Israel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I guess every country should do what they think is in their best interest but if American interests diverge from Israeli interests I expect American leaders to put American interests first, if not then they are traitors and should be treated as traitors. If Obama had any balls he'd say attack Iran if you must but you will be on your own and you will not be allowed to fly over Iraqi Air Space. An Israeli attack on Iran will Immediately put Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan in jeopardy, and what it will do to oil prices will probably push the world economy back into recession,and what the oil prices will do to food prices will be a disaster in the poorer countries. This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read!!! "If Obama had any balls", it wouldn't have come to this to begin with. And where the **** do you get off ASSuming he has any right to tell Israel they can't fly over Iraq??? Is Israel a sovereign nation or not? Is Iraq a sovereign nation or not?? Has PBO realized his ambition of ruler of the world while I wasn't watching? And I love the "will Immediately put Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan in jeopardy"!!!! WTF OVER!!!! Aren't they in a WAR ZONE???? Aren't they already in DANGER???? More so because of the incompetence of our esteemed ruler of your world?? BTW... I thought we had all our troops out of Iraq??? Haven't we heard that repeatedly the last couple months?? Since it's become one of PBOs only "accomplishments", I know we'll hear it repeated often in the course of the election.. I swear, the appeasement from most on the left, and total lack of understanding of what is at stake in the Middle East is absolutely mind boggling! Kiss the ass of those that want to kill us??? Brings to mind the Animal House scene, "Thank You Sir! May I have another!!!" Why do I bother with such idiots?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_In_Norfolk Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 ruler of your world?? BTW... I thought we had all our troops out of Iraq??? Haven't we heard that repeatedly the last couple months?? Since it's become one of PBOs only "accomplishments", I know we'll hear it repeated often in the course of the election.. I swear, the appeasement from most on the left, and total lack of understanding of what is at stake in the Middle East is absolutely mind boggling! Kiss the ass of those that want to kill us??? Brings to mind the Animal House scene, "Thank You Sir! May I have another!!!" Why do I bother with such idiots?? Yes, its just us left wingers that don't want yet another war. Would you pay for it with another tax cut and then blame medicare for the debt? Ron Paulers, where are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yes, its just us left wingers that don't want yet another war. Would you pay for it with another tax cut and then blame medicare for the debt? Ron Paulers, where are you? Go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yes, its just us left wingers that don't want yet another war. Would you pay for it with another tax cut and then blame medicare for the debt? Ron Paulers, where are you? I like Ron Paul's stance on Foreign Policy, he is a very smart man. Our consistent belief we are the police of world will be the fall of this Nation... Israel has one of the advanced miltaries in world, let them protect themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I guess every country should do what they think is in their best interest but if American interests diverge from Israeli interests I expect American leaders to put American interests first, if not then they are traitors and should be treated as traitors. If Obama had any balls he'd say attack Iran if you must but you will be on your own and you will not be allowed to fly over Iraqi Air Space. An Israeli attack on Iran will Immediately put Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan in jeopardy, and what it will do to oil prices will probably push the world economy back into recession,and what the oil prices will do to food prices will be a disaster in the poorer countries. You know when you'll finally wake up and realize that we should bomb Iran? Tom knows, ask him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinga Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Yes, its just us left wingers that don't want yet another war. Would you pay for it with another tax cut and then blame medicare for the debt? Ron Paulers, where are you? Is that all you can come up with? Where in my comment did I mention tax cuts, medicare, the debt, or Ron Paul again??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) I heard Bibi's speech tonight, thought he made a pretty compelling case. I'd have to say if I were in their shoes I'd support the actions of the groundwork he's laying righting now, which is some sort of a strike aimed at paralyzing their capabiltities or at least stalling them. My guess is right now Obama is feeling pretty damn nervous at the moment. Seemed awfully likely to me that they are going to be doing this some time soon. I actually read an article just a few minutes ago where one of their news channels in Israel is "reporting" that Bibi told Obama that they have already decided to strike Iran within the next few weeks or months, unless "significant" progress was made and that their was a dispute about the "day after" consequences. Maybe there isn't much validity to the report, but I'll say this, after watching Bibi's speech, I'd say they're about ready. I mean, he did make a hell of a case, and if I were an Israeli, I'd completely be behind making sure that doesn't happen. I find it amusing how some people can opine from a great distance, outside of any real threat, and state "Why is Israel doing this? they should wait, Iran won't attack them". Maybe, maybe not, but just imagine how emboldened Iran would be to create other conflicts with a nuclear weapon. You don't think that they would use that leverage for dominance in the region. YOu'd have to be one naive puppy to believe they wouldn't. Then of course the idea of a nuclear arms race in the most volatile region in the world, yeah that's not scary at all. Not to mention the distinct possibility that there could be that chance that maybe Iran would be crazy enough to launch it if pushed enough. Unreal man, freaking unreal. Edited March 6, 2012 by Magox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I heard Bibi's speech tonight, thought he made a pretty compelling case. I'd have to say if I were in their shoes I'd support the actions of the groundwork he's laying righting now, which is some sort of a strike aimed at paralyzing their capabiltities or at least stalling them. My guess is right now Obama is feeling pretty damn nervous at the moment. Seemed awfully likely to me that they are going to be doing this some time soon. I actually read an article just a few minutes ago where one of their news channels in Israel is "reporting" that Bibi told Obama that they have already decided to strike Iran within the next few weeks or months, unless "significant" progress was made and that their was a dispute about the "day after" consequences. Maybe there isn't much validity to the report, but I'll say this, after watching Bibi's speech, I'd say they're about ready. I mean, he did make a hell of a case, and if I were an Israeli, I'd completely be behind making sure that doesn't happen. I find it amusing how some people can opine from a great distance, outside of any real threat, and state "Why is Israel doing this? they should wait, Iran won't attack them". Unreal man, freaking unreal. Generally people become crazy when discussing Israel. During Cast Lead I used to hear friends of mine talk about how it was an injustice and war crimes though I never heard a peep from those same people when Syria wipes out protester after protester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I heard Bibi's speech tonight, thought he made a pretty compelling case. I'd have to say if I were in their shoes I'd support the actions of the groundwork he's laying righting now, which is some sort of a strike aimed at paralyzing their capabiltities or at least stalling them. My guess is right now Obama is feeling pretty damn nervous at the moment. Seemed awfully likely to me that they are going to be doing this some time soon. I actually read an article just a few minutes ago where one of their news channels in Israel is "reporting" that Bibi told Obama that they have already decided to strike Iran within the next few weeks or months, unless "significant" progress was made and that their was a dispute about the "day after" consequences. Maybe there isn't much validity to the report, but I'll say this, after watching Bibi's speech, I'd say they're about ready. I mean, he did make a hell of a case, and if I were an Israeli, I'd completely be behind making sure that doesn't happen. I find it amusing how some people can opine from a great distance, outside of any real threat, and state "Why is Israel doing this? they should wait, Iran won't attack them". Unreal man, freaking unreal. Unlikely. Especially the part about telegraphing the strike. I can't see a plausible reason why something so critical would be aired in a meeting with President Milquetoast. Bibi has built a reputation of a hawk without engaging in serious combat largely in part because people are afraid of what he can do. My guess is that the leaks are intentional to put more pressure inside Iran. The sanctions are biting. There is increasing discord among the Khamenei & Ahmy factions. Just let the pressure inside Iran work its own magic. It should give without any air strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Unlikely. Especially the part about telegraphing the strike. I can't see a plausible reason why something so critical would be aired in a meeting with President Milquetoast. Bibi has built a reputation of a hawk without engaging in serious combat largely in part because people are afraid of what he can do. My guess is that the leaks are intentional to put more pressure inside Iran. The sanctions are biting. There is increasing discord among the Khamenei & Ahmy factions. Just let the pressure inside Iran work its own magic. It should give without any air strikes. The only way they give in is if that pressure comes to a head and the internal working of Iran save the day. Otherwise, I believe Israel. They're strike, and they'll do it alone if they have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) The only way they give in is if that pressure comes to a head and the internal working of Iran save the day. Otherwise, I believe Israel. They're strike, and they'll do it alone if they have to. I'm not so sure Israel will do it completely on their own. At the very least, they're not going to do it unless the US signs off on it, and they'll probably get a wink and a nod from at least Saudi Arabia that the Saudi air defense network is going to be down for a few hours. You know, for maintenance. Edited March 7, 2012 by Koko78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I'm not so sure Israel will do it completely on their own. At the very least, they're not going to do it unless the US signs off on it, and they'll probably get a wink and a nod from at least Saudi Arabia that the Saudi air defense network is going to be down for a few hours. You know, for maintenance. Saudis have already pretty much told the Israelis "Yeah, feel free." The abstract nature of this issue to the US belies the fact that the Arab countries themselves are shitting bricks over a nuclear Iran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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