Buftex Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Again....a complete fabrication on your part. You offer nothing but cliches. . No, both Santorum and Paul are on record as saying that recreational sex is immoral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 No, both Santorum and Paul are on record as saying that recreational sex is immoral. Do they actually think that, or just say it to pander to the fundamentalist base? I suspect, even if they "think" that, they certainly don't practice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) I actually think it shows how much they miss the point. To view this as a men oppressing women thing is kind of juvenile of them. There are many women who are anti-abortion and many men that are pro-abortion. It's also intellectually dishonest because the issue revolves around killing a baby. Whichever side of the issue you're on, that is still the issue, and whether you consider it a baby or a mass of cells it is still a life form growing into a person that is killed. When a man takes viagra nothing gets killed. Referring to all matters involving abortion as "women's reproductive health issue" as though there are no moral or substantive difference between that and any other procedure involving reproductive health is nothing more than zooming out to an arbitrary point of abstraction to obscure the reality of the situation. All due respect Rob, I think you are completely missing their point. If the issue is about "killing a baby", then Republicans should use the correct politcal channels to repeal the abortion laws, rather than harassing women who are not breaking any laws. The viagra issue is rediculous, and that is the point. If women must be subjected to unnecessqary ultra-sounds, they are saying, why shouldn't men be subjected to unnecessary heart evaluations, as viagra can affect those with heart conditions. It is really not up to you, or me, to decide what is a matter of a woman's health. Everyone is so concerned about who pays for birth control, nobody cares about who pays for expensive, and unnecessary ultra-sounds? Do they actually think that, or just say it to pander to the fundamentalist base? I suspect, even if they "think" that, they certainly don't practice it. I don't know, but they both said it in the last (or one of the last two) Republican debates. So much for Ron Paul, the great libertarian! Edited March 12, 2012 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 No, both Santorum and Paul are on record as saying that recreational sex is immoral. Define recreational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I don't know, but they both said it in the last (or one of the last two) Republican debates. So much for Ron Paul, the great libertarian! ...and I care less about what they believe than I do what they do. So they think recreational sex is immoral. So what? Unless they try to prosecute and ban it, they can think what they want. Big difference between thinking X is immoral, and thinking X should be illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Define recreational. Jeez...that would be any sex that is partaken in, without the intent of making a baby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Define recreational. Anything other than procreational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 All due respect Rob, I think you are completely missing their point. If the issue is about "killing a baby", then Republicans should use the correct politcal channels to repeal the abortion laws, rather than harassing women who are not breaking any laws. The viagra issue is rediculous, and that is the point. If women must be subjected to unnecessqary ultra-sounds, they are saying, why shouldn't men be subjected to unnecessary heart evaluations, as viagra can affect those with heart conditions. It is really not up to you, or me, to decide what is a matter of a woman's health. Everyone is so concerned about who pays for birth control, nobody cares about who pays for expensive, and unnecessary ultra-sounds? Whose health do you think the ultrasound is MOST geared towards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 All due respect Rob, I think you are completely missing their point. If the issue is about "killing a baby", then Republicans should use the correct politcal channels to repeal the abortion laws, rather than harassing women who are not breaking any laws. The viagra issue is rediculous, and that is the point. If women must be subjected to unnecessqary ultra-sounds, they are saying, why shouldn't men be subjected to unnecessary heart evaluations, as viagra can affect those with heart conditions. It is really not up to you, or me, to decide what is a matter of a woman's health. Everyone is so concerned about who pays for birth control, nobody cares about who pays for expensive, and unnecessary ultra-sounds? You're still obscuring the issue. Whether you think it's the proper channel or not doesn't change the fact that the purpose of the measure is to protect the unborn baby rather than to have a man decide what is a matter of "a woman's health". 98% of the time the abortion isn't a matter of a "woman's health" it's a matter of a woman's convenience. The fact that you guys must speak so euphemistically and abstractly about the matter indicates that you instinctively know this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Whose health do you think the ultrasound is MOST geared towards? No one's. Isn't that part of the issue? That the law mandates it without any real need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 All due respect Rob, I think you are completely missing their point. If the issue is about "killing a baby", then Republicans should use the correct politcal channels to repeal the abortion laws, rather than harassing women who are not breaking any laws. The viagra issue is rediculous, and that is the point. If women must be subjected to unnecessqary ultra-sounds, they are saying, why shouldn't men be subjected to unnecessary heart evaluations, as viagra can affect those with heart conditions. It is really not up to you, or me, to decide what is a matter of a woman's health. Everyone is so concerned about who pays for birth control, nobody cares about who pays for expensive, and unnecessary ultra-sounds? I don't know, but they both said it in the last (or one of the last two) Republican debates. So much for Ron Paul, the great libertarian! I think a prescription is required for ED medication, so a doctor is automatically involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 No one's. Isn't that part of the issue? That the law mandates it without any real need? How do you figure that an ultrasound doesn't give a doctor information on anyone's health? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 You're still obscuring the issue. Whether you think it's the proper channel or not doesn't change the fact that the purpose of the measure is to protect the unborn baby rather than to have a man decide what is a matter of "a woman's health". 98% of the time the abortion isn't a matter of a "woman's health" it's a matter of a woman's convenience. The fact that you guys must speak so euphemistically and abstractly about the matter indicates that you instinctively know this. I am not obscuring anything. If your data is correct (I will take your word for it), then change the law at the heart of the issue...but don't harass people that aren't breaking the law, as it stands. I don't know to make that point any simplier. Obviously, we have to agree to disagree on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I am not obscuring anything. If your data is correct (I will take your word for it), then change the law at the heart of the issue...but don't harass people that aren't breaking the law, as it stands. I don't know to make that point any simplier. Obviously, we have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you on this point. I'm simply stating that the attempt to draw some equivalence between viagra and abortion is contrived at best because aside from falling under a very broad catagorization of "reproductive health" they have nothing in common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 How do you figure that an ultrasound doesn't give a doctor information on anyone's health? That the doctor needs? An MRI gives my doctor information; doesn't mean he requires one every time I have joint pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigfatbillsfan Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I think a prescription is required for ED medication, so a doctor is automatically involved. As apposed to an abortion where a doctor is not involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 This is another deflection by the left.........an ultrasound is standard procedure before an abortion. Published in the medical journal Contraception in 2003, researchers with the group IPAS, the University of North Carolina, a consortium of Planned Parenthood clinics and the National Abortion Federation surveyed staff at 113 Planned Parenthood affiliates and independent abortion businesses between February and April 2000. Almost all sites offering early medical abortion always performed a vaginal ultrasound before and after the abortion, consistent with common practice in the US,” the study said. Surveying 72 of the abortion businesses that sold the abortion pill to women, the researchers found abortion facilities frequently use vaginal ultrasounds before an abortion to determine the gestational age of the baby or afterwards to determine if the abortion was complete. In fact 99 percent of the abortion facilities surveyed always or sometimes performed an ultrasound in association with the surgical abortion — while just one percent did not. Contraception Study . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 As apposed to an abortion where a doctor is not involved? What are you trying to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I don't know, but they both said it in the last (or one of the last two) Republican debates. So much for Ron Paul, the great libertarian! Ron Paul may personally think it's immoral but show me where he stated that he believes it's the governments role to enforce morality upon others? I think a prescription is required for ED medication, so a doctor is automatically involved. Haven't been out to a nightclub recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 This is another deflection by the left.........an ultrasound is standard procedure before an abortion. Published in the medical journal Contraception in 2003, researchers with the group IPAS, the University of North Carolina, a consortium of Planned Parenthood clinics and the National Abortion Federation surveyed staff at 113 Planned Parenthood affiliates and independent abortion businesses between February and April 2000. Almost all sites offering early medical abortion always performed a vaginal ultrasound before and after the abortion, consistent with common practice in the US,” the study said. Surveying 72 of the abortion businesses that sold the abortion pill to women, the researchers found abortion facilities frequently use vaginal ultrasounds before an abortion to determine the gestational age of the baby or afterwards to determine if the abortion was complete. In fact 99 percent of the abortion facilities surveyed always or sometimes performed an ultrasound in association with the surgical abortion — while just one percent did not. Contraception Study . And this is another example of complete "intellectual dishonesty" or ignorance by Republicans. Utrasounds are a normal part of an abortion procedure, not transvagianl ultrasounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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