ExiledInIllinois Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) I thought the babies at home/mid-wife thing was nuts too until one of my closest friends out of college becaame one. Now she's a midwife nurse practitioner (I think that's the correct title) and she impresses the hell out of me. As for the alams, I know in some of the ATL hospitals they have some pretty new technology in place but I don't recall what it was exactly. If I were in the situation with the Kennedy, my role would be to block his path as best I could without becoming physically aggressive, stay close to him, and calling security on my phone to report position. BINGO! That is the proper judgement call one would hope would happen. No doubt the Kennedy's were acting like pompous jerks. I sympathize with the nurse being caught in the middle. Edited February 26, 2012 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 Fair enough. In the end we really don't know what happened then. Everybody is gonna be in CYA mode. Both sides are wrong. End it and let it go. Maybe this will put it in better perspective. The nurses claim the baby's head wasn't being supported and the one put her hand under it to support it. It wasn't a case of anyone "lunging". http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/46530526#46530526 "Lunging" was a term that Mr. Kennedy used. Which I take with a grain of salt for the same reason that the owner of a dog that bit me and mine last summer on the opposite side of the road from its house said it was "protecting its property." As AJ said, with some level of expertise, the ER doctor had little or no authority in the maternity wing. The baby was not his patient/charge. As this doctor said, he was "accompanying" him; what I still don't get is why he did not talk Mr. Kennedy down out of Mortal Combat mode, but.... Likewise, marketing managers at HP do not have a place telling manufacturing line assemblers to put this transistor here instead of there. It's not their area and they likely have little idea of the protocols in another department, especially with the security issues surrounding neo-natal centers with today's brand of whack-jobs. The maternity nurses aren't there to play games, nor are they there to hermetically seal the child away from parental whims that don't affect care. The primary, secondary and tertiary concern is the safety of the newborns. The first week is a critical period of care. EII, this is most definitely NOT a case of a 'well, everyone was wrong here; so no harm no foul' in the hopes of, say, avoiding this becoming a potential distraction for his cousin Joe Kennedy III running for congress. For the record, I could give a stevestojan about any politics fallout. Whether people base a vote in a Kennedy race (other than Douglas Kennedy himself if he ever ran as a means of discussing his own decision-making) based on this would be stupid. The essence is the safety of a baby, the need for everyone to understand the system and stop being so !@#$ing combative about simple security measures and following rules, and still... there is a little bit of a concern of why some members of this family feel entitled to thinking violence against women / people doing their job is OK. Mr. Kennedy is the one being charged with criminal actions. His choice was the genesis of the incident and his poor choice escalated the incident and put the baby at risk of injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 "Lunging" was a term that Mr. Kennedy used. Which I take with a grain of salt for the same reason that the owner of a dog that bit me and mine last summer on the opposite side of the road from its house said it was "protecting its property." As AJ said, with some level of expertise, the ER doctor had little or no authority in the maternity wing. The baby was not his patient/charge. As this doctor said, he was "accompanying" him; what I still don't get is why he did not talk Mr. Kennedy down out of Mortal Combat mode, but.... Likewise, marketing managers at HP do not have a place telling manufacturing line assemblers to put this transistor here instead of there. It's not their area and they likely have little idea of the protocols in another department, especially with the security issues surrounding neo-natal centers with today's brand of whack-jobs. The maternity nurses aren't there to play games, nor are they there to hermetically seal the child away from parental whims that don't affect care. The primary, secondary and tertiary concern is the safety of the newborns. The first week is a critical period of care. EII, this is most definitely NOT a case of a 'well, everyone was wrong here; so no harm no foul' in the hopes of, say, avoiding this becoming a potential distraction for his cousin Joe Kennedy III running for congress. For the record, I could give a stevestojan about any politics fallout. Whether people base a vote in a Kennedy race (other than Douglas Kennedy himself if he ever ran as a means of discussing his own decision-making) based on this would be stupid. The essence is the safety of a baby, the need for everyone to understand the system and stop being so !@#$ing combative about simple security measures and following rules, and still... there is a little bit of a concern of why some members of this family feel entitled to thinking violence against women / people doing their job is OK. Mr. Kennedy is the one being charged with criminal actions. His choice was the genesis of the incident and his poor choice escalated the incident and put the baby at risk of injury. I am not being overly combative and I would feel the same way about the situation if is was anybody else. We live in a sucky world where "safety" is thrown around to trump common sense. Rules and regs thrown around to trump common sense. The word "safety" is a cop out. Where does it end? I can be the biggest dick in the world and use safety as a catch-all to justify my actions. Rules are meant to be broken. Healthcare and law enforcement are just at sad state in our society. Common sense has been thrown out the window by those who want to play cop or those who are caught in the middle of the "system." Like I said, I always thought it whacky to have a child at home or with a mid-wife... Given the state of our over litigated society... Who even wants to step foot in a maximum security hospital! "You could try to train me like a pet, you could try to teach me to behave, But I'll tell you, if I haven't learned it yet, you know, I ain't gonna sit, I ain't gonna stay." That is being combative and the essence of being an "American." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 I am not being overly combative and I would feel the same way about the situation if is was anybody else. We live in a sucky world where "safety" is thrown around to trump common sense. Rules and regs thrown around to trump common sense. The word "safety" is a cop out. Where does it end? I can be the biggest dick in the world and use safety as a catch-all to justify my actions. Rules are meant to be broken. Healthcare and law enforcement are just at sad state in our society. Common sense has been thrown out the window by those who want to play cop or those who are caught in the middle of the "system." Like I said, I always thought it whacky to have a child at home or with a mid-wife... Given the state of our over litigated society... Who even wants to step foot in a maximum security hospital! "You could try to train me like a pet, you could try to teach me to behave, But I'll tell you, if I haven't learned it yet, you know, I ain't gonna sit, I ain't gonna stay." That is being combative and the essence of being an "American." Uhmmm... I used the word "combative" about what Kennedy did. Not about you. Checking out with the proper person to make sure that the person taking the baby is a person who actually is entitled to take the baby is not too much to ask. Expecting someone to not become physically violent while holding a newborn is not too much to ask. It just isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Uhmmm... I used the word "combative" about what Kennedy did. Not about you. Checking out with the proper person to make sure that the person taking the baby is a person who actually is entitled to take the baby is not too much to ask. Expecting someone to not become physically violent while holding a newborn is not too much to ask. It just isn't. I know... All the rules and regs do get my blood boiling. Again... How do you know that she didn't get "physical" first by "lunging." He said, she said... The doctor, from what I read is siding with Mr. Kennedy. Lazy people hide behind safety. The problem in this society is that WE can't make "mistakes." Life isn't always "zero fail." Common sense should have prevailed, not rules and regs. Yet, we get rules and regs, "by the book" types when the lawyers AND UNIONS get innvolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted February 26, 2012 Author Share Posted February 26, 2012 I know... All the rules and regs do get my blood boiling. Again... How do you know that she didn't get "physical" first by "lunging." He said, she said... The doctor, from what I read is siding with Mr. Kennedy. Lazy people hide behind safety. The problem in this society is that WE can't make "mistakes." Life isn't always "zero fail." Common sense should have prevailed, not rules and regs. Yet, we get rules and regs, "by the book" types when the lawyers AND UNIONS get innvolved. That doctor self-identifies as "a friend of the Kennedy family." How objective is this going to be? This is not entirely he said/she said. The surveillance video that is available for viewing shows Kennedy going to an elevator with an explanation that a "Code Pink" (a baby kidnapping) had been activated. The nurse enters the elevator and stops it, while there is obvious discussion. You can probably guess what's being said. The nurses are not moving their hands, they are not lunging, they want to diffuse the situation; he takes a hand away from the baby to make an upturned palm gesture. Kennedy exits the elevator and heads toward the stairs, where a nurse says she was reaching to stabilize the newborn's head when you can see Kennedy's leg extend and the nurse falls to the floor. From the video, it's obvious to anyone without some vested interest who is being the aggressor. The nurses were not being grabby. They were trying to delay as long as they could until security arrived. Evidently, in the stairwell, the nurse had enough concern for the baby's positioning that she couldn't wait for security and only then reaches out. Then, Kennedy went Mortal Combat. The lawyer is saying they're trying to get the charges dropped. Which is code for 'calling in political favors' to people in higher offices. How anyone can watch that video and excuse these actions would be beyond me, but stranger things happen with frequency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I know... All the rules and regs do get my blood boiling. Again... How do you know that she didn't get "physical" first by "lunging." He said, she said... The doctor, from what I read is siding with Mr. Kennedy. Lazy people hide behind safety. The problem in this society is that WE can't make "mistakes." Life isn't always "zero fail." Common sense should have prevailed, not rules and regs. Yet, we get rules and regs, "by the book" types when the lawyers AND UNIONS get innvolved. Do you have any rules or regulations in your job that you might even think are ridiculous, but you follw to the "t" knowing that there would be serious consequences if you didn't follow them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Do you have any rules or regulations in your job that you might even think are ridiculous, but you follw to the "t" knowing that there would be serious consequences if you didn't follow them? Yes A TON... It is almost unbearable. Off the record, I put myself out on a limb everyday (and for the last 21 years) when I don't follow the assine reg to a tee! So far, I have made good judgement calls. There are some that literally follow things to a "T" though and it is unbearable. If I literally followed USC 33 207... Coupled with totally arbitrary local practices and SOP's... It would take 10 years to get a boat through! That doctor self-identifies as "a friend of the Kennedy family." How objective is this going to be? This is not entirely he said/she said. The surveillance video that is available for viewing shows Kennedy going to an elevator with an explanation that a "Code Pink" (a baby kidnapping) had been activated. The nurse enters the elevator and stops it, while there is obvious discussion. You can probably guess what's being said. The nurses are not moving their hands, they are not lunging, they want to diffuse the situation; he takes a hand away from the baby to make an upturned palm gesture. Kennedy exits the elevator and heads toward the stairs, where a nurse says she was reaching to stabilize the newborn's head when you can see Kennedy's leg extend and the nurse falls to the floor. From the video, it's obvious to anyone without some vested interest who is being the aggressor. The nurses were not being grabby. They were trying to delay as long as they could until security arrived. Evidently, in the stairwell, the nurse had enough concern for the baby's positioning that she couldn't wait for security and only then reaches out. Then, Kennedy went Mortal Combat. The lawyer is saying they're trying to get the charges dropped. Which is code for 'calling in political favors' to people in higher offices. How anyone can watch that video and excuse these actions would be beyond me, but stranger things happen with frequency. Yeah.. A code pink! :lol: CYA mode at its finest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Yeah.. A code pink! :lol: CYA mode at its finest! Code Pink is a standard term used at the majority of hospitals for infant abduction. Here's a good article about infant abductions.... http://www.the-hospitalist.org/details/article/252405/CODE_PINK.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 http://www.lohud.com/article/20120228/NEWS/302270073 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Code Pink is a standard term used at the majority of hospitals for infant abduction. Here's a good article about infant abductions.... http://www.the-hospi.../CODE_PINK.html I know, I know... Who's to say that if a nurse out there is in a pissing contest with someone... They won't go all "code pink" just to get back at the person for not listening or following the direct orders (maybe even silly orders). "RFK's kid is stealing a baby! Code Pink! Code Pink!." "He's got doctor so and so from ER with him!" Again... Not saying that rules and regs are not important... But they lazy can almost ALWAYS hide behind them. A perfectionist world where even the slightest mistake is severely punished... This is why we have situations like this! http://www.lohud.com.../NEWS/302270073 Of course! I have never had a doubt that they would... And rightly so... It is their rules and regs. The poor nurses are caught in the middle where "everybody is treated like a criminal" except the actual criminal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I know, I know... Who's to say that if a nurse out there is in a pissing contest with someone... They won't go all "code pink" just to get back at the person for not listening or following the direct orders (maybe even silly orders). "RFK's kid is stealing a baby! Code Pink! Code Pink!." "He's got doctor so and so from ER with him!" Again... Not saying that rules and regs are not important... But they lazy can almost ALWAYS hide behind them. A perfectionist world where even the slightest mistake is severely punished... This is why we have situations like this! Of course! I have never had a doubt that they would... And rightly so... It is their rules and regs. The poor nurses are caught in the middle where "everybody is treated like a criminal" except the actual criminal! No, the criminal here is being treated like a criminal and being charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 No, the criminal here is being treated like a criminal and being charged. Really? And you people complain about big bad federal gov't... With all the rules and regs outside of gov't intervention, wonder why people want to step foot into a hospital. You are more socialist than me! Protect the babies at all cost... Code Pinko! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Really? And you people complain about big bad federal gov't... With all the rules and regs outside of gov't intervention, wonder why people want to step foot into a hospital. You are more socialist than me! Protect the babies at all cost... Code Pinko! He kicked a nurse in her midsection. Did you watch the video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Really? And you people complain about big bad federal gov't... With all the rules and regs outside of gov't intervention, wonder why people want to step foot into a hospital. You are more socialist than me! Protect the babies at all cost... Code Pinko! Sure us conservatives have issues with government intervention. But zero issues with government intervention when it comes to protecting children and preventing child abduction which you seem to have an issue with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 He kicked a nurse in her midsection. Did you watch the video? He will be charged for that... And rightly so... No reason for violence unless they physically came to grab my child from me. Sure us conservatives have issues with government intervention. But zero issues with government intervention when it comes to protecting children and preventing child abduction which you seem to have an issue with. No. It is his child. Who is protecting who here? I still stand on the side of personal liberty even know how mindnumbing some can be given that liberty... It was his child, there was no abduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 He will be charged for that... And rightly so... No reason for violence unless they physically came to grab my child from me. No. It is his child. Who is protecting who here? I still stand on the side of personal liberty even know how mindnumbing some can be given that liberty... It was his child, there was no abduction. Dude if you can't realize that at point they very well may not have know who he was. Also just because he's the father doesn't mean he has any legal right to that baby. They did the right thing. When you see a newborn being removed from a hopital with the mother nowhere in sight you can never be to careful. Always better to err on the side of caution when you're talking about a newborn baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Dude if you can't realize that at point they very well may not have know who he was. Also just because he's the father doesn't mean he has any legal right to that baby. They did the right thing. When you see a newborn being removed from a hopital with the mother nowhere in sight you can never be to careful. Always better to err on the side of caution when you're talking about a newborn baby. Fair enough. Something provoked him other than "he was just a tool Kennedy." That being said, that isn't hard to do (getting provoked) in a hospital setting. My younger brother died right after he was born (1969)... To quote the doctor back than: "All babies are born blue like that." He actually was born with hyaline membrane... My father almost killed the doctor in the hospital hallway... If that would have happened today, he probably would have been doing 6-10 in the pen (my father that is). Sorry for my mistrust of the medical establishment... I guess it was passed down. On that note... Didn't a Kennedy baby in the 60's have infant distress? I know RFK's kid Douglas was too young to remember... But it had to be a topic in the family? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Really? And you people complain about big bad federal gov't... With all the rules and regs outside of gov't intervention, wonder why people want to step foot into a hospital. You are more socialist than me! Protect the babies at all cost... Code Pinko! How would you solve the issue of infant abduction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Fair enough. Dammit!! There goes my lunchtime entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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