CosmicBills Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 ... None of these are excuses by themselves. But when you look at the OVERALL happenings from 2011, all you can do is shrug and say "Yeah, that sucked" Looking at the big picture is always important. And if you look at the big picture of this franchise over the last 12 years suddenly 2011 seems less like an anomaly and more like business as usual. This team has lacked talent and depth for over a decade at every position but for RB. Things haven't changed and the Bills will continue to be irrelevant until they do. Fitz isn't the problem or the solution. Which is the point most are making. But comparing him in any meaningful way to Eli is just idiocy at it's finest.
PDaDdy Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Stating he can throw the deep ball better than Edwards is not exactly a ringing endorsement. I will say this. You are well skilled at addressing miniscule comments in a forum members post while ignoring the actual focus of the post itself. I suppose that works on some, just not me. So can you disagree with the actual focus of my post? "After Jones and Parrish went down what deep speed did we have to respect at WR?" "Other than SJ we don't have guys on this team that can get separation and have the ability to consistently go up and catch balls over their head or outside of their torso." But comparing him in any meaningful way to Eli is just idiocy at it's finest. I for the most part agree. Eli has had 8 years of stability in scheme, talent, coaching, system and organization. He has also had probowl WRs and an elite defense keeping them in every game. Fitz is the exact opposite in every way possible. It would be silly to try to compare them and use Eli's success to condemn Fitz.
Bronc24 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Put Eli on our team and he ends up with cracked rips and doesn't make the playoffs. So what's your point? Did you forget our discussion about Manning benefiting from being in the same system with the same coaching staff and scheme in place for 8 years? Did you forget his probowl WRs and his stellar defense? If Fitz was in that system for 8 years I have every confidence that the Giants would have been a perennial play off team and may have as many super bowls. Which is exactly why I ended the argument with you because your stance is absolutely a joke. You gotta be trolling to make that outlandish claim.... I will say this. You are well skilled at addressing miniscule comments in a forum members post while ignoring the actual focus of the post itself. I suppose that works on some, just not me. So can you disagree with the actual focus of my post? "After Jones and Parrish went down what deep speed did we have to respect at WR?" "Other than SJ we don't have guys on this team that can get separation and have the ability to consistently go up and catch balls over their head or outside of their torso." I for the most part agree. Eli has had 8 years of stability in scheme, talent, coaching, system and organization. He has also had probowl WRs and an elite defense keeping them in every game. Fitz is the exact opposite in every way possible. It would be silly to try to compare them and use Eli's success to condemn Fitz. The premise of your post is that Fitz can throw a decent deep ball. Your reply to teams pressing our WRs and taking away the short passes wHile not respecting our deep ball was to blame the WRs. I think the disrespect was for Fitz's lack of deep arm. Did I address your post well enough? Or was I being obtuse?
thewildrabbit Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) These arguments are all ridiculous. You are comparing apples to oranges. I love how guys want to blame one thing or another as the sole reason the Bills are not a good team. Fitz is no superstar, yet he is far better than the 10 years of garbage before him. Eli impressed me this year, so you will not find me bad mouthing him. But he also has two of the best WR's in the league (and Manningham), 2 good RB's, a good O-line, and an amazing D-line....All things that the Bills DON'T have (Well, 2 RB's yes, just not at the same time yet). He has a good team, with good owners, a good GM, and even though I am not a fan, a decent coach. IMO, Fitz proved that he can succeed if he has a solid team playing good football around him. He also proved at the end of the year that he can't carry the team, or win games on his own. The Bottom line is that no one player alone is good enough to win a super bowl, not even a QB (Marino, or Brady this year, or Newton since despite his great play the panthers were one of the worst teams in the league). If the Bill's had a legitimate shot at a high potential "franchise" type QB, yeah they should go for it. In all likely hood they don't. The Bills need a solid 53 man roster, not just a QB. Even if we had the #1 or 2 overall pick and drafted a "franchise" QB, we would probably ruin them with the awful team around them. It's a 53 man roster, not 1 man. Will we win a SB with Fitz? Seems unlikely. Can we start creating a competitive atmosphere and start making the playoffs while we look for that "special guy"? I think so Very well said, basically spared me from this moronic argument about comparing Fitz to Eli Manning or any other QB on a good team. Some here just love to argue and the others either love Fitz and defend him or hate the guy and bash him. Fitz is the starter, GET OVER IT! Edited February 24, 2012 by Fear the Beard
Bronc24 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Very well said, basically spared me from this moronic argument about comparing Fitz to Eli Manning or any other QB on a good team. Some here just love to argue and the others either love Fitz and defend him or hate the guy and bash him. Fitz is the starter, GET OVER IT! [/) I'll suck it up when I have to. I'd love to see RGIII in a Bills uniform.
PDaDdy Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Which is exactly why I ended the argument with you because your stance is absolutely a joke. You gotta be trolling to make that outlandish claim.... The premise of your post is that Fitz can throw a decent deep ball. Your reply to teams pressing our WRs and taking away the short passes wHile not respecting our deep ball was to blame the WRs. I think the disrespect was for Fitz's lack of deep arm. Did I address your post well enough? Or was I being obtuse? Actually as usual you were obtuse. His deep ball was my first point of many. Not a premise. As usual you cherry picked the only one of many points that you thought you could argue. You ignored the statements I have made repeatedly regarding the stability, system and talent around Eli including an awesome defense that keeps him in every game which is the exact opposite of what Fitz has. Address those points if you really want to say something.
Zulu Cthulhu Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 To be fair, i wouldn't describe the Giants' D as a whole as "awesome." Across some measures, their defense was actually lacking. The pass rush certainly disrupted opposing QBs, though, especially late in the season. It was Eli's play that actually kept the Giants And their defense in more games this past year, not the other way around.
Bronc24 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Actually as usual you were obtuse. His deep ball was my first point of many. Not a premise. As usual you cherry picked the only one of many points that you thought you could argue. You ignored the statements I have made repeatedly regarding the stability, system and talent around Eli including an awesome defense that keeps him in every game which is the exact opposite of what Fitz has. Address those points if you really want to say something. Pretty apparent everyone else has been doing that. You think the Giants D was the Ravens D of 2000. As just mentioned, they got hot at the right time but it was an Eli led offense that kept them in the playoff hunt. You'd take Fitz, I'd take Eli. Let's set up a poll and see what the board thinks?
PDaDdy Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Pretty apparent everyone else has been doing that. You think the Giants D was the Ravens D of 2000. As just mentioned, they got hot at the right time but it was an Eli led offense that kept them in the playoff hunt. You'd take Fitz, I'd take Eli. Let's set up a poll and see what the board thinks? How about we see what you think? Are you praising Eli for keeping them in the play off hunt by going 9 - 7 on the year and enduring a 1-6 stretch losing 4 straight in that run when the defense was injured? Nice job Eli!! To be fair, i wouldn't describe the Giants' D as a whole as "awesome." Across some measures, their defense was actually lacking. The pass rush certainly disrupted opposing QBs, though, especially late in the season. It was Eli's play that actually kept the Giants And their defense in more games this past year, not the other way around. So it was Eli's play that kept them in the play off hunt going 1-6 when the defense was banged up? Again...GREAT job Eli! Wish we had a QB that could captain a 1-6 run when our defense was hurt...OH Wait...we already do!
Bronc24 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 I praise the Superbowl rings that every player on every team covets.
Gugny Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 How about we see what you think? Are you praising Eli for keeping them in the play off hunt by going 9 - 7 on the year and enduring a 1-6 stretch losing 4 straight in that run when the defense was injured? Nice job Eli!! Actually, the difference between the Giants that had the 1-6 stretch and the Giants that dominated the postseason was the defense's improvement and their improved running game. Not that there's any point in comparing them, but Eli is about 10x the QB that Fitz is.
PDaDdy Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 (edited) Actually, the difference between the Giants that had the 1-6 stretch and the Giants that dominated the postseason was the defense's improvement and their improved running game. Not that there's any point in comparing them, but Eli is about 10x the QB that Fitz is. Exactly how did you arrive at that 10x number when Eli was going 1-6 and as you say the Giants defense as well as the running game's improvement accounted for their regular and post season success? I praise the Superbowl rings that every player on every team covets. Another useless TROLL statement while cowardly avoiding discussing my points. Why do you bother other than to troll? If you don't have anything of value to say just read what other people that contribute have to say and try to learn something. Edited February 24, 2012 by PDaDdy
Bronc24 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Thanks for coming out! Remember to vote in our interactive poll before you leave!
thebug Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Exactly how did you arrive at that 10x number when Eli was going 1-6 and as you say the Giants defense as well as the running game's improvement accounted for their regular and post season success? Another useless TROLL statement while cowardly avoiding discussing my points. Why do you bother other than to troll? If you don't have anything of value to say just read what other people that contribute have to say and try to learn something. The Giants could go 0-16 and Eli is still 10x the QB Fitz is. You are out of your mind!
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 To be fair, i wouldn't describe the Giants' D as a whole as "awesome." Across some measures, their defense was actually lacking. The pass rush certainly disrupted opposing QBs, though, especially late in the season. It was Eli's play that actually kept the Giants And their defense in more games this past year, not the other way around. They gave up 13 points per game when they got healthy in the playoffs playing Rodgers and Brady. They were awesome in the postseason.
PDaDdy Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 The Giants could go 0-16 and Eli is still 10x the QB Fitz is. You are out of your mind! So Eli threw for 240 TDs and 38,000+ yards in 2011? ROFLOL. How did I miss that? That is SOME season!
Bronc24 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 They gave up 13 points per game when they got healthy in the playoffs playing Rodgers and Brady. They were awesome in the postseason. And the franchise QB led the game winning drive in the final 2 min.
PDaDdy Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 They gave up 13 points per game when they got healthy in the playoffs playing Rodgers and Brady. They were awesome in the postseason. Oh now don't go bringing that up. It was Baby Eli's passion and fire you can read on his face that brought them success in the post season and his 240TDs and 38,000+ yards because he is 10x the QB Fitz is! It had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with 8 years of stability, pro bowl WRs and a awesome defense. IT WAS ALL ELI!!!
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 And the franchise QB led the game winning drive in the final 2 min. Again, he sucked balls in 2007 and got carried by his defense to a title. his defense shut down Brady and Rodgers to a tune of 13 points a game in the playoffs. I'm no expert but I think you have a decent shot at winning if you only give up 13 points a game. My whole main point that people took off track was not to compare Fitz to Eli. Eli is the more physically gifted QB. My main point is that Eli plays on a much, much better team. The Bills need to make the team around Fitz better. If Eli was throwing to our receivers with our defense, he doesn't sniff the playoffs despite how impressive his 9-7 record in an overrated NFC East was. Oh now don't go bringing that up. It was Baby Eli's passion and fire you can read on his face that brought them success in the post season and his 240TDs and 38,000+ yards because he is 10x the QB Fitz is! It had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with 8 years of stability, pro bowl WRs and a awesome defense. IT WAS ALL ELI!!! Exactly. IF Fitz was playing on a team that was giving up 13 points a game and losing, that's one thing. But completely killing a guy for goign 6-10 with no high draft pick receivers and a defense that almost gave up 30 points a game is stupid and ill placed.
Gugny Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Exactly how did you arrive at that 10x number when Eli was going 1-6 and as you say the Giants defense as well as the running game's improvement accounted for their regular and post season success? Another useless TROLL statement while cowardly avoiding discussing my points. Why do you bother other than to troll? If you don't have anything of value to say just read what other people that contribute have to say and try to learn something. You are absolutely right. I misspoke. Eli is, at a minimum, 50x better than Fitz. Look ... I like Fitz a lot and I'm more of a homer than I even want to be. But there's no argument to be had when you're putting Eli vs. Fitz toe-to-toe. Come on.
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