"You little piece of crap!"

[The Senator]

Most players were finished with their pro careers well before 30. They couldn't find a way to make a go of life between the end of their football careers and their retirement years? It's good to know that even back then, the college degrees these players earned(or didn't earn) were worthless.

Lou Groza spent a year at Ohio State before being drafted into the army. After he served in WW2, he joined the Cleveland Browns where he was a place-kicker and offensive tackle for 21 years, finally retiring in 1967. He was enshrined in the NFL HOF in 1974. His #76 is retired by the Browns - their training facility is located at #76 Lou Groza Boulevard. In 1999, his name was included in the 100 Greatest NFL players of All Time. When he died a year later (in 2000), he was receiving an NFL pension of $500/month.

 

His own damned fault for not making better use of that year at Ohio State, right?

Edited February 21, 2012 by The Senator

[LabattBlue]

Lou Groza spent a year at Ohio State before being drafted into the army. After he served in WW2, he joined the Cleveland Browns where he was a place-kicker and offensive tackle for 21 years, finally retiring in 1967. He was enshrined in the NFL HOF in 1974. His #76 is retired by the Browns - their training facility is located at #76 Lou Groza Boulevard. In 1999, his name was included in the 100 Greatest NFL players of All Time. When he died a year later (in 2000), he was receiving an NFL pension of $500/month.

 

His own damned fault for wasting his time in WW2 rather than finishing his degree, right?

Nice job of making your case based on one NFL player.

[The Senator]

Nice job of making your case based on one NFL player.

 

So you think there's only one like him? Well, you're probably right.

 

The league most certainly churned thru thousands of vets who had their lives disrupted by the wars in Europe, the Pacific, Korea, and Southeast Asia - then, after their playing days were over, threw them on the giant NFL scrap pile of undercompensated and forgotten fallen heroes. Only - unlike Groza - those guys just didn't last 21 years, or make it to the HOF.

Edited February 21, 2012 by The Senator

[uncle flap]

i never thought i'd hear the senator sounding like a 99%er! OCCUPY THE NFL!!!

[LabattBlue]

So you think there's only one like him? Well, you're probably right.

 

The league most certainly churned thru thousands of vets who had their lives disrupted by the wars in Europe, the Pacific, Korea, and Southeast Asia - then, after their playing days were over, threw them on the giant scrap pile.

 

Only - unlike Groza - those guys just didn't last 21 years, or make it to the HOF.

So now it is about the players who served in WWII? What about all the players that did go to college and got degrees(a far greater number than the "war vets/nfl player"), but didn't plan for their retirement years, and are now crying that they only get a $100 a month, because they want in on the NFL war chest?

Edited February 21, 2012 by LabattBlue

[The Senator]

i never thought i'd hear the senator sounding like a 99%er! OCCUPY THE NFL!!!

 

HARRRRUMPHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm just all kinds of pissed-off this week!

 

It's the damned gas prices.

[RealityCheck]

 

HARRRRUMPHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm just all kinds of pissed-off this week!

 

It's the damned gas prices.

Another issue tied to the inflation tax.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I don't know I guess so. I always thought you should always take care of your own. The players all want to talk about solidarity & togetherness & banding together only when it meets there agendas I guess. Their TV contracts are worth billions every year now & your telling me there is not enough money to take care of the former players that helped build the league to what it is today? At least bump their pensions up so that there not below the poverty level & give them decent medical coverage. Honestly is that too much to ask?

I agree.

 

Most players from the early 1960's (and before) got paid less than $10K a year and had to take part-time jobs - like selling cars, insurance, or doing whatever they could - in the off-season just to make ends meet. When their brief and low-paying NFL careers ended, there were no lucrative pensions or medical plans. Most had to take jobs, start businesses of their own, or find ways to at least try to leverage their former NFL notoriety - with beer distributors, car dealerships, etc., and working at those 'second careers' until they died.

 

The modern league was built on the backs and broken bones of those guys - and now clowns like Brees reap all the benefits of their sacrifice, apparently with no gratitude of appreciation for the punishment those guys endured for a small pittance of what today's pampered, egotistical NFL stars..um...earn.

I agree.

 

Joe D speaks for thousands of other players who he played with AND ALSO those who came before him. He's said this many times. He's using the platform he has as a Hall of Famer to advocate for the many thousands of football players who helped build the league into what it is today… the most popular North American professional sport.

 

I've avoided getting into this discussion because of my disgust and sadness with those who are attacking Joe D… whose stance I find admirable and morally compelling.

 

I really can't believe that the majority of posters in this thread actually think that he's bitter. You people who believe this don't know the first thing about Joe D and the type of person that he is… and the many charitable acts which he's devoted himself… the children he's adopted and the former NFLers that he's helped.

 

I have to walk away from this discussion because it's simply too disappointing, angering, and sad to even have a debate about this.

Edited February 22, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

I agree.

 

 

I agree.

 

Joe D speaks for thousands of other players who he played with AND ALSO those who came before him. He's said this many times. He's using the platform he has as a Hall of Famer to advocate for the many thousands of football players who helped build the league into what it is today… the most popular North American professional sport.

 

I've avoided getting into this discussion because of my disgust and sadness with those who are attacking Joe D… whose stance I find admirable and morally compelling.

 

I really can't believe that the majority of posters in this thread actually think that he's bitter. You people who believe this don't know the first thing about Joe D and the type of person that he is… and the many charitable acts which he's devoted himself… the children he's adopted and the former NFLers that he's helped.

 

I have to walk away from this discussion because it's simply too disappointing, angering, and sad to even have a debate about this.

 

 

Sounds like the guy has a special place in your heart, and that's fine. For what its worth, the pension issue is complicated and joe d is on just one side of it. when you utilize language that includes these words strung together...."piece" and "of" and "crap", i'd assume at some point you'd recognize you're a lightning rod. my assumption is that he knows that, and chooses to play it out that way. i'd be surprised if he gave half-a-well, crap about what some internet posters have to say about him. my one observation----these days, he sounds like a character straight our of Springsteen's "Glory Days"...I read one comment where he talked about taking it out on the field and settling things (a broad paraphrase)...and instantly I thought of Bill Murray in "Meatballs" muttering "Easy Francis...". I have no beef with the guy's fight, no beef with it at all, and it seems that on some elvel he's succeeding.

Edited February 22, 2012 by timmo1805

[mike22nc]

I think I missed the part where it says they were forced to play in the league. Did they not know that injuries were possible playing football? Did they not know how much money they were going to make? Why would a business choose to give them more money than they are entitled to under their contracts that were agreed upon? It's sour grapes and the ex-players are jealous that they played a couple decades too early.

[NoSaint]

Wow! A whole $124/season!!!

 

I'm guessing you're like 12 years old and have no idea what health care premiums are.

 

So what if the guy played 3-4 seasons in the early '70's and shredded his ACL? With all that new-found extra money, does it really matter if he can't walk?

 

(Which, BTW, just might inhibit his ability to work and earn a decent living.)

 

At a whopping $124/season, he should now be pullin' in an extra almost $500/year!!! Tax free, no less!!!! Let's all go to Vegas on that!!!!

Maybe I'm misreading but I took that as an extra 124 per month for each accrued season, not per year.

 

 

How much do you propose they get monthly per accrued season?

Edited February 22, 2012 by NoSaint

[NoSaint]

Why don't you do everybody a favor & save your BS for the Saints board.

 

Bottomline here is the players/owners have turned their back on the players that have paved the way for the league's current success. It makes me sick & Brees is a major ass for saying what he said. Did Brees ever think that some of these guys can't work anymore due to the long term effects of playing football? Brees has no clue what he is talking about.

 

 

 

 

Pretty dumb comment. The players in Joe D's era & before that never seen the kind of ridiculous money the players & the owners are seeing now.

 

Sorry - in the future when I have personal experience with a player around the league, I'll keep it to myself. Wouldn't want to upset someone with that information again. I'll mind which board I'm on better in the future and only pat bills players on the back around here.

 

Truly though, I've seen drew do a lot around the community that would never be expected, or publicized- not stuff just to get a tax writeoff. He's devoted a lot of time energy and dollars and really impressed me. I don't buy that he's out to screw these guys, as much as trying to take a non-emotional approach to solving the problem realistically.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

It's real simple.

 

No one said life was fair and certainly we live in an imperfect world.

 

That said, the NFL grew slowly over many decades to be the huge money making enterprise it is today.

 

The success of the league was built largely on the toils of the men who played the game.

 

The NFL today is a lucrative cash cow.

 

Owners are getting rich. Even some players who spent one year in the league are walking away with a half a million dollars.

 

The question is, do the ex-players who helped build the league (many of whom the NFL still exploits via NFL Films to build the mythology of the league) deserve more than they are currently getting?

 

If yes, how much more?

 

If you think that it's alright for the Latrell Sprewell's of the world to rake in tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars in their playing careers while Hall of Famers are scraping by on a shamefully low pension, then we have nothing left to discuss.

 

The discussion is about how much if any, the NFL and its players should fairly give to those who came before them.

 

It's amazing to me that some of you think they don't deserve even another penny.

[NoSaint]

It's real simple.

 

No one said life was fair and certainly we live in an imperfect world.

 

That said, the NFL grew slowly over many decades to be the huge money making enterprise it is today.

 

The success of the league was built largely on the toils of the men who played the game.

 

The NFL today is a lucrative cash cow.

 

Owners are getting rich. Even some players who spent one year in the league are walking away with a half a million dollars.

 

The question is, do the ex-players who helped build the league (many of whom the NFL still exploits via NFL Films to build the mythology of the league) deserve more than they are currently getting?

 

If yes, how much more?

 

If you think that it's alright for the Latrell Sprewell's of the world to rake in tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars in their playing careers while Hall of Famers are scraping by on a shamefully low pension, then we have nothing left to discuss.

 

The discussion is about how much if any, the NFL and its players should fairly give to those who came before them.

 

It's amazing to me that some of you think they don't deserve even another penny.

 

I don't feel like that's the opinion of just about anyone. That said, I don't think Joe d did anything but pull dollars out of all the guys pockets that he's fighting for. There's articulating your view, and then there's calling your negotiating partner a piece of crap. His leverage is already low, and now he's going to name call while he has his hand out?

 

I'd love to see it reworked but I haven't seen any of the huge pro-Joe guys say what a dollar figure would be. I personally lean away from dollars from a pension and towards a highly effective health plan, job training etc.... Help NFL players be productive after their careers. Handing more cash to a guy that's already mismanaged his finances rarely fixes things. Getting them healthy and helping them be productive. Something about fish vs fishing I think

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I don't feel like that's the opinion of just about anyone. That said, I don't think Joe d did anything but pull dollars out of all the guys pockets that he's fighting for. There's articulating your view, and then there's calling your negotiating partner a piece of crap. His leverage is already low, and now he's going to name call while he has his hand out?

 

I'd love to see it reworked but I haven't seen any of the huge pro-Joe guys say what a dollar figure would be. I personally lean away from dollars from a pension and towards a highly effective health plan, job training etc.... Help NFL players be productive after their careers. Handing more cash to a guy that's already mismanaged his finances rarely fixes things. Getting them healthy and helping them be productive. Something about fish vs fishing I think

As to your first paragraph (and Timmo pointed this out too), I know he used fighting words but that's the football player talking… just like the late NFLPA President Gene Upshaw threatened to "break his (Joe D's) neck."

 

On top of that I give Joe a pass because I found Drew's initial comments to be very offensive and rude. He painted all the guys with one brush, accused them of cashing out early, making bad decisions, etc. That takes a lot of gall, IMO. I was surprised by Drew's comments because he's reputed to be an intelligent guy but in every way possible, those were stupid and incendiary comments.

 

Also, if you ever met Joe, which I have, you'd know he's a fun-loving, gregarious, smiling person. Clearly he was really pissed-off and offended by Drew's comments.

 

As for your second paragraph, I generally agree but all of that is immaterial to me. IMO, the former players deserve more.

 

How much more and in what form is another discussion.

 

 

 

 

[NoSaint]

As to your first paragraph (and Timmo pointed this out too), I know he used fighting words but that's the football player talking… just like the late NFLPA President Gene Upshaw threatened to "break his (Joe D's) neck."

 

On top of that I give Joe a pass because I found Drew's initial comments to be very offensive and rude. He painted all the guys with one brush, accused them of cashing out early, making bad decisions, etc. That takes a lot of gall, IMO. I was surprised by Drew's comments because he's reputed to be an intelligent guy but in every way possible, those were stupid and incendiary comments.

 

Also, if you ever met Joe, which I have, you'd know he's a fun-loving, gregarious, smiling person. Clearly he was really pissed-off and offended by Drew's comments.

 

As for your second paragraph, I generally agree but all of that is immaterial to me. IMO, the former players deserve more.

 

How much more and in what form is another discussion.

 

That's not another discussion. That's the very core of this talk. Joe says they need more. Drew says they need more but they shouldn't get it based on bad choices. Both sides agree they need more but how much and how to qualify it is what they disagree on.

 

 

Last up, I enjoy you give Joe a pass on his dumb comment because he's a football player and they just say things like that while here drew is and you aren't going to include the rest of the context around his quote.

 

Typically I enjoy the insights but I feel you've missed the boat on this one. Both sides are discussing how much to give and who to give it to and it seems you've hung up on one line from the greater debate for some reason.

Edited February 22, 2012 by NoSaint

[San Jose Bills Fan]

That's not another discussion. That's the very core of this talk. Joe says they need more. Drew says they need more but they shouldn't get it based on bad choices. Both sides agree they need more but how much and how to qualify it is what they disagree on.

 

 

Last up, I enjoy you give Joe a pass on his dumb comment because he's a football player and they just say things like that while here drew is and you aren't going to include the rest of the context around his quote.

 

Typically I enjoy the insights but I feel you've missed the boat on this one. Both sides are discussing how much to give and who to give it to and it seems you've hung up on one line from the greater debate for some reason.

We can argue whose comments are more offensive.

 

Personally a guy like Brees who was lucky enough to come along at a time when NFL players are making untold riches and then criticizes former players for bad decisions is an a-hole. What Brees said is more offensive to me than someone calling him a "little piece of crap."

 

Just because someone is more civil doesn't make his words better… to me Brees comments were very ugly, petty, and ignorant and more offensive than Joe D's.

 

On top of that here's a guy who's made $60 million in the last 6 years and he has the gall to cast aspersions on a group of former players that as a whole, makes today's athletes look like a group of spoiled prima donnas. You have guys who are playing right now who have zero money in spite of the fact that they've made millions of dollars in a short amount of time… but Brees criticizes the earlier generation who if anything, were more conservative with their money and who sacrificed more for less and who paved the way for the ingrate modern guys.

 

Also I disagree that the amount of money is as you said "the core of this talk."

 

We're not talking specifics here… we're talking about whether the earlier players deserve more money or not… that's the discussion.

 

No one here has discussed monetary amounts… and there are several posters who don't think the earlier players deserve a dime.

 

 

[AllenToBrown2020]

Actually, he wanted a new deal while still under contract. Yes, it was his rookie deal, but he went broke and owes his agent mulah. After seeing reports and pics of receipts where he spent 10k in a 3 hr span at a "scrip" club, I think this is a good example. Is it relevant to his current contract negotiation? It sure is. Like you said, it gives the Eagles leverage knowing he is the type to blow money like that. They can portray him as an imature person who will lose his money again, then sulk when he realizes it. He definetly didn't play as well when this money issue was on his mind. As for being a spellchecker, you knew what he ment.

 

I agree with you, but my God, learn how to spell. It's not that he didn't know what the guy meant, it's that it's annoying to look at. At least for me. And yes, I'm nitpicking and making a big deal out of nothing. Get over it.

[NoSaint]

We can argue whose comments are more offensive.

 

Personally a guy like Brees who was lucky enough to come along at a time when NFL players are making untold riches and then criticizes former players for bad decisions is an a-hole. What Brees said is more offensive to me than someone calling him a "little piece of crap."

 

Just because someone is more civil doesn't make his words better… to me Brees comments were very ugly, petty, and ignorant and more offensive than Joe D's.

 

On top of that here's a guy who's made $60 million in the last 6 years and he has the gall to cast aspersions on a group of former players that as a whole, makes today's athletes look like a group of spoiled prima donnas. You have guys who are playing right now who have zero money in spite of the fact that they've made millions of dollars in a short amount of time… but Brees criticizes the earlier generation who if anything, were more conservative with their money and who sacrificed more for less and who paved the way for the ingrate modern guys.

 

Also I disagree that the amount of money is as you said "the core of this talk."

 

We're not talking specifics here… we're talking about whether the earlier players deserve more money or not… that's the discussion.

 

No one here has discussed monetary amounts… and there are several posters who don't think the earlier players deserve a dime.

 

 

There are idiots now and in sure there were just as many idiots then. I doubt that has changed toooo dramatically- the biggest difference being how much they can blow through now.

 

If you want to debate with a couple posters that argue they shouldn't get anything - have at it. Joe and drew both think they deserve something, and more than they have gotten. Their debate is who and how much. I don't think drew was trying to paint an entire generation of guys with that comment as much as its a bad line taken out of context. What about the rest of it with his respect for those who came before, needing to help them but needing to do it right? You seem to dismiss that totally. Truly - the issue has even been addressed to a degree with more money going into the system since this.

[Turbosrrgood]

Pretty ridiculous for guys with $100 million dollar contracts having that attitude towards the guys that built the league that now pays them. You can't cough up a few thousand more bucks a year so that these guys can live like human beings?

 

I've liked Brees since his college days, but that article changes my opinion of him a little.