The Senator Posted February 20, 2012 Author Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Im not going to argue there isnt a greedy bone in his body, or that hes never made a poor/selfish choice but i will say that he is impressively generous and that he has done so much stuff that i have gotten to see first hand that hasnt made the press that it is ridiculous. he would be within the handful of nfl players that i would, without hesitation, stand up for in a situation like this. His point isnt that these players should be hung out to dry completely, but that its a tough situation. many of them did dig their own financial graves. if you are going to be thiiiiis upset about it, it amazes me that you havent gotten atleast to the heart of the issue which is how much of the failed marriages, drug addiction, inability to hold jobs, and huge number of random kids around the country comes from the game they played and brain injuries. short of that damage to the brain, there really isnt an excuse for a group of guys that would have been entering the workforce in their mid 30s or younger, with college degrees often, to not have been able to widely support themselves. Its simply not as black and white as you make it out to be. its a system that needs to be looked at, but to dismiss the fact that drew in that very interview acknowledges that they need to address the issue as being just a pr stunt that someone must have told him he needed to say to cover up the original comment, is in my opinion silly. when looking at the wider picture of the man drew brees has been on the field, in his community, etc.... i just dont get it. hes widely considered somewhere between an older brother and father to many of the players in his own locker room, has done massive amounts of work in the community, and is in fact respected by his peers enough to be put in a leadership role in these issues. joe de has on the other hand been a bit out in left field with a lot of what he has done over the years. forgive me if i dont totally fault drew for volunteering to sign just any check joe wants written. maybe the fact that he calls one of the people with a lot of sway over his financial future "a little piece of crap" has more to do with his financial present than hed like to admit. Easy for the piece of crap Brees (et al) to be flip when they've been guaranteed $gazillions$ before they've ever taken a snap in the NFL. Also easy for them to appear generous - at the advice of their Certified Financial Planners! DeLamielleure is fighting for guys like HOFer Lou Groza... "Groza was born in Martins Ferry, OH the son of immigrant parents (his father was Romanian, his mother Hungarian). He was the smallest (at 6'3") of three brothers in a decidedly athletic family. He played one season for Ohio State, where he was a member of Alpha Tau Omega, before being drafted into the Army. Upon discharge, Groza joined the Browns, who were then in the All-American Football Conference. He stayed with the team until 1959. After a brief retirement, he returned to play from 1961-1967. According to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, his 21 years of play was unprecedented up to that time - and when he retired, he was last of the original Browns still active." ...who died on a $500/month pension from the NFL, and for guys like HOFer Leroy Kelly... During his 10-year NFL career, the 6-foot, 202-pound running back rushed for 7,274 yards and 74 touchdowns, on 1,727 carries. He also caught 190 passes for 2,281 yards and 13 touchdowns. On special teams, he returned 94 punts for 990 yards and 3 touchdowns, and 76 kickoffs for 1,784 yards. Overall, he gained 12,330 all-purpose yards and scored 90 touchdowns. He was named All-NFL five times and to six Pro Bowls. Kelly led the NFL in rushing in 1967 and '68, also leading the league in rushing touchdowns for three consecutive years from 1966-68. He also was a talented punt and kick returner, who averaged 10.5 yards per punt return and 23.5 yards per kick return during his career. Noted as an exceptionally fine runner on the muddy playing fields then in use, the 6-0, 202-pound Kelly favored the famed Browns trap play up the middle for his major yardage ventures but he was equally devastating on sweeps or as a receiver. His quick-starting ability, along with a sense of balance and knack of evading direct hits by tacklers, kept him relatively injury-free, missing only four games in 10 years and never more than one game per season. Selected by the Browns in the eighth round of the 1964 draft, he was a key return man during his rookie season, contributing to the Browns' 1964 NFL Championship. Initially he was a backup running back, behind featured fullback Jim Brown and blocking halfback Ernie Green. After Brown's retirement, he became the Browns' featured back. Kelly played with the Chicago Fire of the WFL in 1974, rushing for 315 yards (4.1 average) and catching 8 passes for 128 yards (16.0 average) Leroy Kelly retired from pro football following the 1974 season with the Chicago Fire, but remained in the World Football League, joining the coaching staff of the Philadelphia Bell as the offensive backfield coach. He was enshrined in the Pro Football HOF in 1994. ...who receives an NFL pension of $175/month. Can't believe some of you guys are siding with piece o' crap Brees on this one. Seriously???? . Edited February 20, 2012 by The Senator
NoSaint Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Easy for the piece of crap Brees (et al) to be flip when they've been guaranteed $gazillions$ before they've ever taken a snap in the NFL. Also easy for them to appear generous - at the advice of their Certified Financial Planners! DeLamielleure is fighting for guys like HOFer Lou Groza... "Groza was born in Martins Ferry, OH the son of immigrant parents (his father was Romanian, his mother Hungarian). He was the smallest (at 6'3") of three brothers in a decidedly athletic family. He played one season for Ohio State, where he was a member of Alpha Tau Omega, before being drafted into the Army. Upon discharge, Groza joined the Browns, who were then in the All-American Football Conference. He stayed with the team until 1959. After a brief retirement, he returned to play from 1961-1967. According to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, his 21 years of play was unprecedented up to that time - and when he retired, he was last of the original Browns still active." ...who died on a $500/month pension from the NFL, and for guys like HOFer Leroy Kelly... During his 10-year NFL career, the 6-foot, 202-pound running back rushed for 7,274 yards and 74 touchdowns, on 1,727 carries. He also caught 190 passes for 2,281 yards and 13 touchdowns. On special teams, he returned 94 punts for 990 yards and 3 touchdowns, and 76 kickoffs for 1,784 yards. Overall, he gained 12,330 all-purpose yards and scored 90 touchdowns. He was named All-NFL five times and to six Pro Bowls. Kelly led the NFL in rushing in 1967 and '68, also leading the league in rushing touchdowns for three consecutive years from 1966-68. He also was a talented punt and kick returner, who averaged 10.5 yards per punt return and 23.5 yards per kick return during his career. Noted as an exceptionally fine runner on the muddy playing fields then in use, the 6-0, 202-pound Kelly favored the famed Browns trap play up the middle for his major yardage ventures but he was equally devastating on sweeps or as a receiver. His quick-starting ability, along with a sense of balance and knack of evading direct hits by tacklers, kept him relatively injury-free, missing only four games in 10 years and never more than one game per season. Selected by the Browns in the eighth round of the 1964 draft, he was a key return man during his rookie season, contributing to the Browns' 1964 NFL Championship. Initially he was a backup running back, behind featured fullback Jim Brown and blocking halfback Ernie Green. After Brown's retirement, he became the Browns' featured back. Kelly played with the Chicago Fire of the WFL in 1974, rushing for 315 yards (4.1 average) and catching 8 passes for 128 yards (16.0 average) Leroy Kelly retired from pro football following the 1974 season with the Chicago Fire, but remained in the World Football League, joining the coaching staff of the Philadelphia Bell as the offensive backfield coach. He was enshrined in the Pro Football HOF in 1994. ...who receives an NFL pension of $175/month. Can't believe some of you guys are siding with piece o' crap Brees on this one. Seriously???? . Besides one comment, which you refuse to take in its full context, and the fact that he is rich, youve provided nothing to show that Drew Brees is a money hungry jerk out to screw these guys. hes donated not just money, but time and energy to a lot of causes in a city that desperately needed someone like him to step up. i cant tell you how much i disagree with your portrayal. im utterly not impressed with joe d's ability to work well with others, and suspect his attitude is probably not just costing him money but probably those he is "fighting for." which is the sad part. both sides need to get together and do something good for these older players, but to name-call and inflame the people with all the money and power isnt exactly the approach to get them running to the table to meet with you, to you know, give you their money out of the goodness of their hearts.
Dopey Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 DeSean Jackson wants a new contract because his rookie deal has now expired. Yes he blew all of the money he had, but that is hardly relevant to his current negotiation except that it gives the Eagles a little more leverage in the ongoing negotiation. Bad example, and the word is ignorance. Actually, he wanted a new deal while still under contract. Yes, it was his rookie deal, but he went broke and owes his agent mulah. After seeing reports and pics of receipts where he spent 10k in a 3 hr span at a "scrip" club, I think this is a good example. Is it relevant to his current contract negotiation? It sure is. Like you said, it gives the Eagles leverage knowing he is the type to blow money like that. They can portray him as an imature person who will lose his money again, then sulk when he realizes it. He definetly didn't play as well when this money issue was on his mind. As for being a spellchecker, you knew what he ment.
Gordio Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Going out on a limb I'm going to guess drew is the more reasonable of the two and it wasn't just a pr move. He's ridiculously active in the community, super religious, etc... Very charitable. From my experiences with him and people that work closely with him reflects he'd do just about anything for someone who had a curve ball thrown by life but that, like the quote said, you have to find a way to do it right. Why don't you do everybody a favor & save your BS for the Saints board. Bottomline here is the players/owners have turned their back on the players that have paved the way for the league's current success. It makes me sick & Brees is a major ass for saying what he said. Did Brees ever think that some of these guys can't work anymore due to the long term effects of playing football? Brees has no clue what he is talking about. Joe D. is a bitter old man. A couple of years ago, WGR had him on regularly. Each time, it would turn into Joe D's personal soapbox. Was he this outspoken about the veteran players who came before him when he was playing, or did it just became an issue when he became part of the alumni? Pretty dumb comment. The players in Joe D's era & before that never seen the kind of ridiculous money the players & the owners are seeing now.
metzelaars_lives Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Isn't Jerry Kramer the lead character in Ski Patrol? http://www.google.com/imgres?q=jerry+kramer+ski+patrol&hl=en&biw=1440&bih=713&gbv=2&tbm=isch&tbnid=SZhwpdnYH07-qM:&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ski_Patrol_%28film%29&docid=hG7wS03GZkBeoM&imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/07/Poster_of_the_movie_Ski_Patrol.jpg/220px-Poster_of_the_movie_Ski_Patrol.jpg&w=220&h=344&ei=1a5DT4fROsGzgwfByc33Aw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=182&vpy=120&dur=410&hovh=275&hovw=176&tx=93&ty=135&sig=109337561521570642941&page=1&tbnh=157&tbnw=100&start=0&ndsp=22&ved=0CEUQrQMwAA
artmalibu Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 So how much did Joe make while playing football? What were his salaries compared to the average worker?
CBD Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 "There's some guys out there that have made bad business decisions," Brees told USA Today in late May. "They took their pensions early because they never went out and got a job. They've had a couple divorces and they're making payments to this place and that place. And that's why they don't have money. And they're coming to us to basically say 'Please make up for my bad judgment.' In that case, that's not our fault as players." I agree with Drew. The pension payouts that the retired players are getting are based on when they began taking their benefits, likely immediately after they retired in their mid 30s. I'm certain they knew the details of the plan when they made this decision.
RealityCheck Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Why don't you do everybody a favor & save your BS for the Saints board. Bottomline here is the players/owners have turned their back on the players that have paved the way for the league's current success. It makes me sick & Brees is a major ass for saying what he said. Did Brees ever think that some of these guys can't work anymore due to the long term effects of playing football? Brees has no clue what he is talking about. Pretty dumb comment. The players in Joe D's era & before that never seen the kind of ridiculous money the players & the owners are seeing now. Your voice means something when you are economically viable. No one cares what you have to say when you are not. The retired players had their opportunities many times over when active to negotiate better deals for themselves. It is what it is. If you can't manage your life more money taken from someone else will not help.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 I actually work with a player from the 70's/80's. Jeff Yeates, he was a DE for the Bills then the Falcons. Jeff still works today because he has to. Now he likes what he does and it keeps him young, working with all us 20 and 30 y/o's. But he has had multiple knee surgeries, and is what you see in a typical player from that era. There body is no where near what it could or should be if they had not played in the NFL. These are the guys many of our dads watched growing up. These are the guys that built the game into what it is. If the passion for the game had not been bred into our fathers, we would not have been in those stadiums in the 80's and 90's when that CBA happened in 93. Guess my point is the league can take better care of the Alumi's and if the current players had the heart and mind to realize it, then guys like my friend would be in a much better situation then they are today.
Gordio Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Your voice means something when you are economically viable. No one cares what you have to say when you are not. The retired players had their opportunities many times over when active to negotiate better deals for themselves. It is what it is. If you can't manage your life more money taken from someone else will not help. I don't know I guess so. I always thought you should always take care of your own. The players all want to talk about solidarity & togetherness & banding together only when it meets there agendas I guess. Their TV contracts are worth billions every year now & your telling me there is not enough money to take care of the former players that helped build the league to what it is today? At least bump their pensions up so that there not below the poverty level & give them decent medical coverage. Honestly is that too much to ask?
The Senator Posted February 21, 2012 Author Posted February 21, 2012 I agree with Drew. The pension payouts that the retired players are getting are based on when they began taking their benefits, likely immediately after they retired in their mid 30s. I'm certain they knew the details of the plan when they made this decision. Your ignorance is mind-numbing. Most players from the early 1960's (and before) got paid less than $10K a year and had to take part-time jobs - like selling cars, insurance, or doing whatever they could - in the off-season just to make ends meet. When their brief and low-paying NFL careers ended, there were no lucrative pensions or medical plans. Most had to take jobs, start businesses of their own, or find ways to at least try to leverage their former NFL notoriety - with beer distributors, car dealerships, etc., and working at those 'second careers' until they died. The modern league was built on the backs and broken bones of those guys - and now clowns like Brees reap all the benefits of their sacrifice, apparently with no gratitude of appreciation for the punishment those guys endured for a small pittance of what today's pampered, egotistical NFL stars..um...earn.
CBD Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 At least bump their pensions up so that there not below the poverty level & give them decent medical coverage. Honestly is that too much to ask? I thought they did: The NFL's new "Legacy Fund" is an additional $620 million carved into the new CBA to go toward pension increases. Current payments to retirees or beneficiaries were bumped up to at least $600 per month. Players over 55 already receiving pensions were given a benefit credit, an extra $124 per season for those accrued prior to 1975 and an additional $108 per season for those played between 1975 and 1992. Overall, including the "Legacy Fund," an extra $1 billion was set aside in the new CBA to improve benefits, league spokesman Greg Aiello said. http://www.cbssports.com/print/nfl/story/17263545/retired-nfl-players-still-fighting-for-better-benefits-hearing-wed/rss
The Senator Posted February 21, 2012 Author Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I thought they did: The NFL's new "Legacy Fund" is an additional $620 million carved into the new CBA to go toward pension increases. Current payments to retirees or beneficiaries were bumped up to at least $600 per month. Players over 55 already receiving pensions were given a benefit credit, an extra $124 per season for those accrued prior to 1975 and an additional $108 per season for those played between 1975 and 1992. Wow! A whole $124/season!!! I'm guessing you're like 12 years old and have no idea what health care premiums are. So what if the guy played 3-4 seasons in the early '70's and shredded his ACL? With all that new-found extra money, does it really matter if he can't walk? (Which, BTW, just might inhibit his ability to work and earn a decent living.) At a whopping $124/season, he should now be pullin' in an extra almost $500/year!!! Tax free, no less!!!! Let's all go to Vegas on that!!!! Edited February 21, 2012 by The Senator
RealityCheck Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 I don't know I guess so. I always thought you should always take care of your own. The players all want to talk about solidarity & togetherness & banding together only when it meets there agendas I guess. Their TV contracts are worth billions every year now & your telling me there is not enough money to take care of the former players that helped build the league to what it is today? At least bump their pensions up so that there not below the poverty level & give them decent medical coverage. Honestly is that too much to ask? Interesting imagination you have there. I made no reference to there not being enough money for retired players. That is obviously not the issue. The issue is that the current players and former players are at odds on this. Year in and year out many issues are addressed which may or may not become a priority come contract time. That is the beauty of collective bargaining. There were many opportunities for these guys to address these issues and for whatever reason they signed on the dotted line and willfully accepted the terms. Personally I would love to see the current players step in and make concessions to these guys but it is not my right to impose my ethical perspective on what they should do. As a fan of hard working men and women and having intimate knowledge of collective bargaining agreements I feel that something is missing from Joe D's argument. What about the players from his era vs. the retired players before him. I would love to know the consensus back in his day concerning the welfare of prior players. The greatest irony I see when people complain about pensions and retirement investment returns is that the American monetary policy is actually at the heart of why it will never be enough. The purposeful devaluation of the American dollar makes it artificially difficult to extract that money (plus taxes) upon retirement and have it be enough if you are blessed with living for a while. The inflation tax that no one ever talks about is the real killer of retirement plans.
Gordio Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Interesting imagination you have there. I made no reference to there not being enough money for retired players. That is obviously not the issue. The issue is that the current players and former players are at odds on this. Year in and year out many issues are addressed which may or may not become a priority come contract time. That is the beauty of collective bargaining. There were many opportunities for these guys to address these issues and for whatever reason they signed on the dotted line and willfully accepted the terms. Personally I would love to see the current players step in and make concessions to these guys but it is not my right to impose my ethical perspective on what they should do. As a fan of hard working men and women and having intimate knowledge of collective bargaining agreements I feel that something is missing from Joe D's argument. What about the players from his era vs. the retired players before him. I would love to know the consensus back in his day concerning the welfare of prior players. The greatest irony I see when people complain about pensions and retirement investment returns is that the American monetary policy is actually at the heart of why it will never be enough. The purposeful devaluation of the American dollar makes it artificially difficult to extract that money (plus taxes) upon retirement and have it be enough if you are blessed with living for a while. The inflation tax that no one ever talks about is the real killer of retirement plans. Your the one with the interesting imagination. You can not possibly be comparing Joe D's era where the average player probably made $30K - $40K a year to the era of today in which the average player makes over $1 million per year; are you? Back then there was not the obscene amount of money being floated around that there is today so my guess is that the players of Joe D's era probably were not that concerned about former players. They were more worried about other pressing needs like paying their mortgages/utility bills/putting their kids thru college.
The Senator Posted February 21, 2012 Author Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Perhaps if I'm ignorant you could enlighten me, rather than taking a page out of Joe Ds book & hurling insults. Why sure. Without disclosing my own health care premium costs, co-payment responsibilities, or medical maladies (which are minor compared to the tortured bodies of many retired NFL players), I can enlighten you this much... I recently received a shoe-box sized delivery containing a 4-week supply of various medications - the cost was approximately $25,000. So let's see - if I was a former NFL player from the 1970's whose career was cut short after 5 or 6 seasons, I guess I should be pleased at my recent $124/season windfall that gives me an extra 700 bucks each year to help me pay for that 1-month supply! OOOPIE DOOPIE!!!!!! . Edited February 21, 2012 by The Senator
MarkyMannn Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 and insists he will need to continue to work "until I'm dead." OH BOOHOO. Join the rest of America
The Senator Posted February 21, 2012 Author Posted February 21, 2012 OH BOOHOO. Join the rest of America Wow. Another genius. Guess you're not familiar with the pension plans of most teachers and government employees, eh?
RealityCheck Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Your the one with the interesting imagination. You can not possibly be comparing Joe D's era where the average player probably made $30K - $40K a year to the era of today in which the average player makes over $1 million per year; are you? Back then there was not the obscene amount of money being floated around that there is today so my guess is that the players of Joe D's era probably were not that concerned about former players. They were more worried about other pressing needs like paying their mortgages/utility bills/putting their kids thru college. I get it. When a question is asked a quick assumption needs to be made. If your attitude and reading comprehension are indicative of the former players that Joe is referring to then that is likely part of their problem and why relatively little of the NEWLY earned money is being given to them. Perhaps I missed something but I have not witnessed any NFL fans banning together in any tangible economic fashion to pressure the league on this matter. When you spend your money on a product you condone the manner in which it is manifest. In case you haven't noticed you vote with how you spend your money.
LabattBlue Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Pretty dumb comment. The players in Joe D's era & before that never seen the kind of ridiculous money the players & the owners are seeing now. Forget about the money. On principle alone, it was okay that Joe D. didn't take this stance on former players while he was playing? There weren't former players falling on hard times back in the 70's? Most players were finished with their pro careers well before 30. They couldn't find a way to make a go of life between the end of their football careers and their retirement years? It's good to know that even back then, the college degrees these players earned(or didn't earn) were worthless.
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