If Not Mayock Then Who?

[HuSeYiN1978]

First off I would like to say that I haven't been on any other websites like TBD where Bills fans give their thoughts on the team, players and pretty much everything else in the world. I personally think you guys are the smartest football fans there is to be honest with you. The way some of you guys do your homework and gather information about college players ready to make the leap into the NFL is ridiculous. Ridiculous in a good way that is.

 

My situation is this. I'm not one to follow college players at all and what I used to do before the scouting combine is I used to put the NFL Network on and on the bottom of the screen it would always scroll "Mayock's top 5 CB's, or Mayock's top 5 QB's" and so on. What I used to do was write down those top 5 guys and start watching their moves in the combine "if they decided to even go" and become a scout myself. Then I would put 3 stars on a player I really liked, 2 stars for someone I liked, and 1 star for someone I wouldn't mind having if we drafted him.

 

Here's my problem. I know Mayock is a professional and most importantly human. He can make mistakes. But after the way he talked about Blaine Gabbert being the best QB he's ever seen this and he's going to be the greatest that? I lost all respect for his evaluation of players.

 

Now my question is I still would like to do my little scouting job (for lack of a better word) come time of the combine so, who else can I follow besides Mayock to give me a heads up on who to look for or who has lists of top 5's? Or maybe instead of all the other threads I'm seeing on TBD, if some of you knowledgeable guys would put up a whole list of your top 5 CB's, QB's, TE's, etc.... Thanks.

Edited February 17, 2012 by HuSeYiN1978

[D521646]

Mayock is ok for what you want to use him for. Mel Kiper is also pretty good. My understanding is that you're really trying to just nail down a list of college players so that you can focus on 4 or 5 in each category. That (In all honesty) shouldn't be too difficult. You also need to understand that picking winners in the NFL draft is not an exact science by any stretch. One can measure physical tangible qualities, and even to some degree intangibles, but no one can predict how a kid will react to his new environment, money, and other as equally qualified team mates. Remember, a lot of these guys especially in the first 3 rounds are the best on their teams in college. They go from being the top dog to the rookie scum suckers in the NFL. They are just another guy in a myriad of guys trying to make the team, and they aren't treated special. (In most cases) That adjustment is difficult for a lot of players, the mentally tough one's seem to be the guys that "get-that" lesson early, and run with it. Gabbert's performance last year is certainly worthy of criticism but the book is not closed on him yet. He could still turn out pretty good with the right coaching staff and players around him.

 

 

Tim-

Edited February 17, 2012 by D521646

[Maddog69]

I am in the same boat as you. I don't follow college ball too much. The big thing I always keep in mind is that all of these evaluatios are opinions. Some guys put more value on one aspect or another. So I like to read as many mock dradts and player rankings as I can. But I don't give them a lot of credit individually. But when you consistently read the same thing about a player, you start to get a sense of the general feeling on that player. If you just listen to 2 guys argue their opinions (Kiper vs McShay) you don't get the full picture.

 

But to simply answer your question. The guys I respect most are:

Mayock

Casserly

Gil Brandt

Rick Gosselin

[Beerball]

Well, if you're going to judge an evaluator on one player then don't include Gil Brandt, Kiper or McShay either. (of course you are also judging a player on one season)

 

Mayock:

"Bottom line, he's the first quarterback off the board, and it wouldn't surprise me if Carolina takes him at No. 1," Mayock said on Path to the Draft.

 

Brandt:

NFL.com draft guru Gil Brandt said of Gabbert's display: "His workout was outstanding -- much better than Cam Newton's at Auburn's pro day on March 8."

 

Kiper:

Some draft gurus even rate Auburn quarterback Cam Newton ahead of Gabbert. But Kiper is going with Gabbert -- at least for the moment.

 

McShay:

Todd McShay loves the Jaguars' pick of Blaine Gabbert, who he says has "tremendous football intelligence."

 

I'm stopping there, not because I've run out of pundits, I've run out of time (I'm bored with this).

[Armchair GM]

First off I would like to say that I haven't been on any other websites like TBD where Bills fans give their thoughts on the team, players and pretty much everything else in the world. I personally think you guys are the smartest football fans there is to be honest with you. The way some of you guys do your homework and gather information about college players ready to make the leap into the NFL is ridiculous. Ridiculous in a good way that is.

 

My situation is this. I'm not one to follow college players at all and what I used to do before the scouting combine is I used to put the NFL Network on and on the bottom of the screen it would always scroll "Mayock's top 5 CB's, or Mayock's top 5 QB's" and so on. What I used to do was write down those top 5 guys and start watching their moves in the combine "if they decided to even go" and become a scout myself. Then I would put 3 stars on a player I really liked, 2 stars for someone I liked, and 1 star for someone I wouldn't mind having if we drafted him.

 

Here's my problem. I know Mayock is a professional and most importantly human. He can make mistakes. But after the way he talked about Blaine Gabbert being the best QB he's ever seen this and he's going to be the greatest that? I lost all respect for his evaluation of players.

 

Now my question is I still would like to do my little scouting job (for lack of a better word) come time of the combine so, who else can I follow besides Mayock to give me a heads up on who to look for or who has lists of top 5's? Or maybe instead of all the other threads I'm seeing on TBD, if some of you knowledgeable guys would put up a whole list of your top 5 CB's, QB's, TE's, etc.... Thanks.

 

Here...check these sites out. Very good player evaluations..totally unbiased and let's you formulate your own opinion:

 

Draft Scout

 

Football's Future

[HuSeYiN1978]

I am in the same boat as you. I don't follow college ball too much. The big thing I always keep in mind is that all of these evaluatios are opinions. Some guys put more value on one aspect or another. So I like to read as many mock dradts and player rankings as I can. But I don't give them a lot of credit individually. But when you consistently read the same thing about a player, you start to get a sense of the general feeling on that player. If you just listen to 2 guys argue their opinions (Kiper vs McShay) you don't get the full picture.

 

But to simply answer your question. The guys I respect most are:

Mayock

Casserly

Gil Brandt

Rick Gosselin

 

Cool thanks...

[Beerball]

I am in the same boat as you. I don't follow college ball too much. The big thing I always keep in mind is that all of these evaluatios are opinions. Some guys put more value on one aspect or another. So I like to read as many mock dradts and player rankings as I can. But I don't give them a lot of credit individually. But when you consistently read the same thing about a player, you start to get a sense of the general feeling on that player. If you just listen to 2 guys argue their opinions (Kiper vs McShay) you don't get the full picture.

 

But to simply answer your question. The guys I respect most are:

Mayock

Casserly

Gil Brandt

Rick Gosselin

Casserly:

NFL Network draft analyst Charley Casserly hasn’t hidden his belief that Auburn QB Cam Newton shouldn’t be a first-round pick. So when it comes to a quarterback class in which every prospect has question marks, it’s Missouri QB Blaine Gabbert who Casserly lists as top-rated at the position.

 

Gosselin (had Gabbert going #7):

Jim Harbaugh is a quarterback maker — first Josh Johnson at the University of San Diego and then Andrew Luck at Stanford. In his first year as head coach of the 49ers, Harbaugh wants a quarterback he can build a team around.

 

So HuSeYiN1978...Mayock, Kiper, Brandt, McShay, Casserly and Gosselin all had Gabbert going very high in round 1 and some had him graded as the #1 QB. Now who you gonna listen to?

[HuSeYiN1978]

Casserly:

 

 

Gosselin (had Gabbert going #7):

 

 

So HuSeYiN1978...Mayock, Kiper, Brandt, McShay, Casserly and Gosselin all had Gabbert going very high in round 1 and some had him graded as the #1 QB. Now who you gonna listen to?

 

I guess none of em lol... I kind of really like Charles Davis from the NFL network also. I'm pretty sure Mayock, Casserly and hundreds of others had Gabbert rated the best QB but being that I followed Mayock heavily and trusted his analysis is the reason for me losing respect for his judgment. The guy was so passionate about Gabbert he would have bet his house on him. I guess I will follow Charles Davis.

[NewEra]

1329489086[/url]' post='2384706']

First off I would like to say that I haven't been on any other websites like TBD where Bills fans give their thoughts on the team, players and pretty much everything else in the world. I personally think you guys are the smartest football fans there is to be honest with you. The way some of you guys do your homework and gather information about college players ready to make the leap into the NFL is ridiculous. Ridiculous in a good way that is.

 

My situation is this. I'm not one to follow college players at all and what I used to do before the scouting combine is I used to put the NFL Network on and on the bottom of the screen it would always scroll "Mayock's top 5 CB's, or Mayock's top 5 QB's" and so on. What I used to do was write down those top 5 guys and start watching their moves in the combine "if they decided to even go" and become a scout myself. Then I would put 3 stars on a player I really liked, 2 stars for someone I liked, and 1 star for someone I wouldn't mind having if we drafted him.

 

Here's my problem. I know Mayock is a professional and most importantly human. He can make mistakes. But after the way he talked about Blaine Gabbert being the best QB he's ever seen this and he's going to be the greatest that? I lost all respect for his evaluation of players.

 

Now my question is I still would like to do my little scouting job (for lack of a better word) come time of the combine so, who else can I follow besides Mayock to give me a heads up on who to look for or who has lists of top 5's? Or maybe instead of all the other threads I'm seeing on TBD, if some of you knowledgeable guys would put up a whole list of your top 5 CB's, QB's, TE's, etc.... Thanks.

 

My belief is Mayock and Casserly are the best in the Biz. No one is going to be right all the time. No one. Pick the guy you like the most and go from there. Blaine Gabberts career isn't over yet btw. Not that I'm a fan of gabbert. He looked like a deer in headlights out there this hear, but it was his rookie year and his number 1 Wr was like 5'7 and sucks.

[Max997]

I've never been a big Mayock fan but a lot of people on here are mainly bc they are more concerned with his mocks and the fact that he got the Whitner pick right

 

Mayock was an announcer and didnt become a so called expert until the NFL Network needed someone to be their expert then all of a sudden he is one...I dont doubt he knows football but I dont think he is on Kipers level either

 

for the most part he repeats what other people say as his own opinion

 

 

I am more critical of these guys when they grade a player as cant miss who turns out to be a bust then giving a player a lower grade that turns out to be a pro bowler

Edited February 17, 2012 by Max997

[vegasbillzfan42]

Go out and buy a Sirius receiver for your home and car (they make one you can use in both) Turn on ch 88:) Sirius NFL! Listen to Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwin. I know, Kirwin has ties to the old Jet teams but, He is a master at breaking down players and Ryan is an X player so he has that inside track on players abilities. Best info there is out there. I pay no attention to the TV hacks at all. Tim and Pat will let you know who is moving up and down according to real numbers and real player stats.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

I really like www.draftcountdown.com

[Estro]

I like Profootballweekly.com for draft analysis. At the top of the website they have different tabs, go to "Draft", then click on "Prospects". You can then look at the prospects, by school, grade, prospect or by name.

 

If you click on the individual player, they usually have a good writeup for each player. They also have the "buzz" on each player, which is usually what other media outlets are saying about that individual prospect. Finally they include the players "Draft Stock". They have where they THINK the player will be drafted, and also where they SHOULD be drafted.

 

http://www.profootballweekly.com/prospects/rankings/

 

I just think Nolan Nawrocki does a fantastic job when it comes to NFL Draft Evaluation. They also put out an NFL Draft Edition Magazine with a lot of analysis, and for the real football junkies an NFL Draft Guide (for around $20), which is basically a thick book with a breakdown of every draft prospect, even the late round guys. It's usually relseased a few weeks after the combine (mid March).

 

http://www.pfwstore.com/835.html

[Maddog69]

Go out and buy a Sirius receiver for your home and car (they make one you can use in both) Turn on ch 88:) Sirius NFL! Listen to Tim Ryan and Pat Kirwin. I know, Kirwin has ties to the old Jet teams but, He is a master at breaking down players and Ryan is an X player so he has that inside track on players abilities. Best info there is out there. I pay no attention to the TV hacks at all. Tim and Pat will let you know who is moving up and down according to real numbers and real player stats.

 

I forgot about Kirwan. I like him too. Very knowledgeable.

[MikeSpeed]

I use Miss Cleo. I use to use the weatherman but he's never right. So then I started going against everything the weatherman said and then he started getting it right.

My point is nobody is 100% accurate. I like Mayock. He doesn't just tell you his opinion on a guy he tells why and goes in depth. His reasons always seem logical to me.

[thewildrabbit]

IMHO just go with Mike Mayock, he isn't perfect but I trust what he says over any other player analyst.He used to play in the NFL and relies on what he see's on game tape over any other factor. Several NFL teams have tried to hire him away from the NFL network to head their scouting dept and he turned them down.

 

The biggest difference between him and actual team scouts is he doesn't dig into the players personnel background as much as a top scout would. Interviewing ex coaches, their friends and teammates and family. You would be surprised to see the depths that some teams go thru when looking into a player background for a first round pick.

[KOKBILLS]

The NFL Draft has been my favorite hobby since the early 90's...I've bought and read just about every one of the Top guys Pub's over the years...And...IMHO...Mayock is head over heels above all of them...I have always liked Kiper...He's SUPER smart and studied...People don't give him credit for how thorough he is...Is he wrong sometimes? Sure he is...But projecting this stuff is not exactly easy...If it was Tom Brady would have gone #1 overall...I think McShay is BY FAR the most overrated guy...He seems to go out on a limb more...So maybe that's why he's wrong more often...I should also mention that I LOVED Joel Buchsbaum's Draft reports when he did them for PFW...May he RIP...

[Adam]

Just wait until after they make their pick, then form your opinion that its a bust

Edited February 17, 2012 by Adam

[HuSeYiN1978]

The NFL Draft has been my favorite hobby since the early 90's...I've bought and read just about every one of the Top guys Pub's over the years...And...IMHO...Mayock is head over heels above all of them...I have always liked Kiper...He's SUPER smart and studied...People don't give him credit for how thorough he is...Is he wrong sometimes? Sure he is...But projecting this stuff is not exactly easy...If it was Tom Brady would have gone #1 overall...I think McShay is BY FAR the most overrated guy...He seems to go out on a limb more...So maybe that's why he's wrong more often...I should also mention that I LOVED Joel Buchsbaum's Draft reports when he did them for PFW...May he RIP...

 

You have a point. I still like Mayock I just can't trust his QB analysis anymore. But you're right. The draft is definitely 50 percent scouting skill and 50 percent luck. I really do like this guy Charles Davis's breakdown of players also. He's always at the pro days and the combine and also does commentary. He's young and I believe he will be mentioned in the same sentence as the Kipers and the Mayocks in years to come.

 

So being that the NFL draft is your hobby, do you have a top 5 prospects list for each position yet? Or are you waiting for the combine to add a few names?

[NoSaint]

You have a point. I still like Mayock I just can't trust his QB analysis anymore. But you're right. The draft is definitely 50 percent scouting skill and 50 percent luck. I really do like this guy Charles Davis's breakdown of players also. He's always at the pro days and the combine and also does commentary. He's young and I believe he will be mentioned in the same sentence as the Kipers and the Mayocks in years to come.

 

So being that the NFL draft is your hobby, do you have a top 5 prospects list for each position yet? Or are you waiting for the combine to add a few names?

 

If your goal is to find a baseline to start investigating and doing your own research mayock is still a great place to jump off.

 

Thing is - a lot of his opinions, yes even on gabbert aren't wildly incorrect. Sure he so far missed the boat on him but.... If your goal is predicting success at the next level it's near impossible. Without knowing anything about their future coaches, teammates, schemes, etc.... There's a huge degree of unknown when saying "this kid will be a good NFL qb." gabbert gets to sit a year, keep the same system for his first few seasons and he could be great. Cut the starter a week out from the season, lock him out of the facilities all offseason and can his coaches and expectations can change wildly.