DrDawkinstein Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Buffalo Ramblings, not the best source sometimes, made a good point about where some of this money could come from for Johnsons contract by dumping some players currently on the Bills. Terrence McGee $3.6 million in 2012; $4.6 million in 2013 Dwan Edwards $3.8 million in 2012; $3.65 million in 2013 Thats $7.4 million for 2012 and 8.25 million for 2013. Take the average of that and you have roughly 7.8 per year for the next 2 seasons. Obviously he isn't asking for a 2 year contract, but that at least secures some of the money need for his contract. It also could put his contract in the 15 million guaranteed category. McGee hasn't played up to his money because of the injuries and Edwards will be the odd man out in the new 4-3 scheme. Its an interesting point. We could also look to the late rounds of the draft for CB and DL depth. That is where McGee came from. Those are their salaries, but how much would we really save by cutting them? At least some of it will become dead cap money. I think I heard McGee is a big hit to the cap whether we cut him or keep him. Any idea? Edit: I think McGee should be released regardless. He isnt worth his roster spot. I just dont know that we would save any money to use for Stevie by cutting McGee. Edited February 22, 2012 by DrDareustein
Wayne Cubed Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Those are their salaries, but how much would we really save by cutting them? At least some of it will become dead cap money. I think I heard McGee is a big hit to the cap whether we cut him or keep him. Any idea? Edit: I think McGee should be released regardless. He isnt worth his roster spot. I just dont know that we would save any money to use for Stevie by cutting McGee. I believe because of how the Bills do cash to cap, as long as they cut them before the beginning of the NFL year(March 7th) then it won't take a hit on the salary cap for 2012 or 2013. So that would be available money. Edited February 22, 2012 by Wayne333
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I don't know. Nix and gailey seem like financial wizards to me. Turned down big wall street jobs to run our football team Man... dry subtle sarcasm with a slightly randomn twist is like art.
dbringer Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 The more I read about the WR's available in free agency, the less I'm worried about losing Stevie Johnson. I'd love to have him stay, but if I'm making the decisions for the Bills, I wouldn't want to be held hostage by this one. Demetrius Bell, though - even though I think he's only average, I would find a way to keep him.
Johnny Hammersticks Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Top 10 WR salaries 2011...includes base salary, signing bonuses, incentive bonuses, etc... 10. Anquan Boldin 6 9. Greg Jennings 6.5 8. Roddy White 6.5 7. Reggie Wayne 8 6. Andre Johnson 8.8 5. Miles Austin 8.5 4. Steve Smith 8.5 3. Brandon Marshall 10.6 2. Calvin Johnson 12.6 1. Larry Fitzgerald 21.5 IMO...based on his age and potential alone, he will likely be worth more than Boldin and Jennings on the free agent market. I don't think he is worth more than Roddy White, but it seems like Roddy is grossly underpaid. I would estimate that he would likely be offered a contract somewhere in the 7 million range. I really feel like the Bills are closer to this number than most people think. As people have stated, the difference between the two sides is probably more related to contract length, signing bonus, and/or guaranteed money. The flip side of that perspective, is that maybe Stevie just doesn't want to be here anymore. He knows that he would likely receive a similar or better contract elsewhere, and have the chance to play immediately for a competitive team. I suspect that he will ride this out until free agency and then sign with the 49ers...his hometown team (who coincidentally have been very public about their intentions to sign a top-tier FA wide receiver). This, of course, doesn't make me happy...but I wouldn't be shocked if it came to fruition.
EasternOHBillsFan Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) A team with no receivers is something positive? Who were the receivers for the New York Giants in 2008? Amani Toomer Plaxico Burress Steve Smith Who are the New York Giants receivers in 2012? Hakeem Nicks Victor Cruz Mario Manningham Anyone can be replaced, incuding a whole WR corps. I REST MY CASE. Edited February 22, 2012 by BmoreBills
RealityCheck Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Who were the receivers for the New York Giants in 2008? Amani Toomer Plaxico Burress Steve Smith Who are the New York Giants receivers in 2012? Hakeem Nicks Victor Cruz Mario Manningham Anyone can be replaced, incuding a whole WR corps. I REST MY CASE. That is one hell of a reality check!
All_Pro_Bills Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I believe because of how the Bills do cash to cap, as long as they cut them before the beginning of the NFL year(March 7th) then it won't take a hit on the salary cap for 2012 or 2013. So that would be available money. What I understand is a cap hit occurs if a player is released then any bonus amortized in the cap for future years becomes due in the current year. So if player has a 4 year deal and is released prior to year 3 then the bonus money spread to year 3 and 4 comes due in the current season (year 3). I think the way the Bills cash to cap approach works is they 'take' the hit for the entire signing bonus in year 1 of the contract. So let's say the re-sign S. Johnson for 5 years at 40 million with 10 million of that a signing bonus with yearly salaries of 2, 4, 6, 8 10. So under the NFL cap rules the hit per season would be 2 million per year for the bonus plus salary for each season: 4, 6, 8, 10 ,12. The Bills cash to cap would be the entire bonus in year 1 plus the salary for each season: 12, 4, 6, 8, 10. Because of this cash to cap accounting my guess is the sticking point in the Johnson negotiations is the upfront signing bonus figure. I'll wager that others here are more fluent in the cap and I stand ready to be corrected if required, but this cash to cap approach seems to put you at a severe disadvantage vs. following the cap management approach as defined by the rules of the NFL collective bargaining agreement. The Bills aren't doing anything illegal or a breach of contract but it seems counterproductive from a competitive standpoint.
Captain Hindsight Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Who were the receivers for the New York Giants in 2008? Amani Toomer Plaxico Burress Steve Smith Who are the New York Giants receivers in 2012? Hakeem Nicks Victor Cruz Mario Manningham Anyone can be replaced, incuding a whole WR corps. I REST MY CASE. Right we can afford to neglect the pass rush for a few more years
Jerry Jabber Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Here's where I think the problem is. Evans signed a 4 year $37.25 million dollar extension with the Bills. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/baltimore-ravens/lee-evans/ Evans first year of that deal, he made $11,730,770, the second year $5,400,000, third & fourth years $ 3,275,000 with $3,000,000 bonuses each year. It seems Johnson's camp wants somewhere around $7-8 million a year, but the Bills would rather pay a lower yearly salary, but give bonuses to compensate. The two sides are suppose to meet this week (I believe) in Indy, so hopefully they can hammer out the details and resign Johnson.
Wayne Cubed Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Who were the receivers for the New York Giants in 2008? Amani Toomer Plaxico Burress Steve Smith Who are the New York Giants receivers in 2012? Hakeem Nicks Victor Cruz Mario Manningham Anyone can be replaced, incuding a whole WR corps. I REST MY CASE. Excuse me if I interject, because this case isn't quite over. First off the Giants didn't chose to replace Burress, he shot himself in the leg. Also in the 2008 draft they drafted Manningham(3rd Round) to presumably replace an ageing Toomer. So their #1 receiver going into the 2008/2009 season would have been Burress with Manningham taking over the #2. That all changed when Burres shot himself. That forced the Giants to draft Nicks #1 overall in 2009. Cruz was a diamond in the rough. Sure you could look at Giants and see that they have different WR and make the case that "hell you can replace anyone." But you aren't comparing apples to apples. The Bills aren't in a position to draft a WR #1 overall to replace our leaving one. We don't have the stout defense the Giants did and continue to have. And BTW its not like the Giants chose to overhaul their WR corp. Also if you are going to suggest we replace our WR corp through FA. That would be 2 we would need and the Bills have trouble getting one great FA to come to Buffalo, let alone 2. -I highly doubt there is a Victor Cruz hidden on the Bills WR -There isn't even a #2 receiver on the Bills. -The Bills have too many holes on defense
Billshank Redemption Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Who were the receivers for the New York Giants in 2008? Amani Toomer Plaxico Burress Steve Smith Who are the New York Giants receivers in 2012? Hakeem Nicks Victor Cruz Mario Manningham Anyone can be replaced, incuding a whole WR corps. I REST MY CASE. this point is moronic. We simply have too many holes to fill to say that we can just go out and let probably our brightest offensive player walk. We need to grow our talent and resign it. You'll notice thats what the good teams do, almost all of the key pieces on the giants and pats were home grown.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Excuse me if I interject, because this case isn't quite over. First off the Giants didn't chose to replace Burress, he shot himself in the leg. Also in the 2008 draft they drafted Manningham(3rd Round) to presumably replace an ageing Toomer. So their #1 receiver going into the 2008/2009 season would have been Burress with Manningham taking over the #2. That all changed when Burres shot himself. That forced the Giants to draft Nicks #1 overall in 2009. Cruz was a diamond in the rough. Sure you could look at Giants and see that they have different WR and make the case that "hell you can replace anyone." But you aren't comparing apples to apples. The Bills aren't in a position to draft a WR #1 overall to replace our leaving one. We don't have the stout defense the Giants did and continue to have. And BTW its not like the Giants chose to overhaul their WR corp. Also if you are going to suggest we replace our WR corp through FA. That would be 2 we would need and the Bills have trouble getting one great FA to come to Buffalo, let alone 2. -I highly doubt there is a Victor Cruz hidden on the Bills WR -There isn't even a #2 receiver on the Bills. -The Bills have too many holes on defense Could you not say that SJ is similar to Victor Cruz? SJ was a 7th round pick. Had great senior season numbers for Kentucky playing in the SEC. Nix was i believe the head of scouting for the S.E for the Bills at the time. I think what the original poster was getting at and even you yourself helped brin gto light, is wide receivers are easier to replace then say great pass rushers....which the Giants have had.
jjmac Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Who were the receivers for the New York Giants in 2008? Amani Toomer Plaxico Burress Steve Smith Who are the New York Giants receivers in 2012? Hakeem Nicks Victor Cruz Mario Manningham Anyone can be replaced, incuding a whole WR corps. I REST MY CASE. Do you think having a Eli Manning throwing the ball might have something to do with it?
jkhmlf Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Joe Buscaglia Reporting JoeB@wgr550.com The most well-publicized free agent for the Buffalo Bills this off-season is Stevie Johnson, and the next chapter has been revealed. Last week, the two sides planned a meeting during the NFL Scouting Combine after a swap of contract proposals. As it turns out, that meeting between a representative for Johnson and the Bills will be happening on Friday in Indianapolis according to a source. Johnson is set to become an unrestricted free agent on March 13 if no deal is reached. The day of the meeting was originally reported by WKBW's Jeff Russo. Twitter: @JoeB_WGR
stevestojan Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 My biggest concern with this is once again if we don't sign him, FAs have no reason at all to come to Buffalo. I mean there's little reason altogether, but why would anyone go to Buffalo knowing they if they kill it for 2-3 years we wont pay them? We're like the tryouts for the big leagues.
DrDawkinstein Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Do you think having a Eli Manning throwing the ball might have something to do with it? Beat me to it. Cant look at just the WRs and say "It doesnt matter who plays WR" when everything from the Offensive Coordinator, Elite QB, and OLine are all the same. Completely different situation.
Shoto Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 However, the Giants had a very good quarterback to throw the ball to the receivers. Who were the receivers for the New York Giants in 2008? Amani Toomer Plaxico Burress Steve Smith Who are the New York Giants receivers in 2012? Hakeem Nicks Victor Cruz Mario Manningham Anyone can be replaced, incuding a whole WR corps. I REST MY CASE.
marauderswr80 Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 I think with McGee redoing his contract frees up the money we may need to resign johnson. Now if this is the case, big time kudos to McGee for putting team first before his own wallet.....
Beerball Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Top 10 WR salaries 2011...includes base salary, signing bonuses, incentive bonuses, etc... 10. Anquan Boldin 6 9. Greg Jennings 6.5 8. Roddy White 6.5 7. Reggie Wayne 8 6. Andre Johnson 8.8 5. Miles Austin 8.5 4. Steve Smith 8.5 3. Brandon Marshall 10.6 2. Calvin Johnson 12.6 1. Larry Fitzgerald 21.5 IMO...based on his age and potential alone, he will likely be worth more than Boldin and Jennings on the free agent market. I don't think he is worth more than Roddy White, but it seems like Roddy is grossly underpaid. I would estimate that he would likely be offered a contract somewhere in the 7 million range. I really feel like the Bills are closer to this number than most people think. As people have stated, the difference between the two sides is probably more related to contract length, signing bonus, and/or guaranteed money. The flip side of that perspective, is that maybe Stevie just doesn't want to be here anymore. He knows that he would likely receive a similar or better contract elsewhere, and have the chance to play immediately for a competitive team. I suspect that he will ride this out until free agency and then sign with the 49ers...his hometown team (who coincidentally have been very public about their intentions to sign a top-tier FA wide receiver). This, of course, doesn't make me happy...but I wouldn't be shocked if it came to fruition. Some different numbers here based on cap hit: link
Recommended Posts