CBD Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Its crazy to want to get rid of a wr that has great chemistry with a qb...to bring in another wr to replace the wr you lost...and hope they can emake a similar or bigger impact They're attempting to resign him, which shows they don't "want to get rid" of Stevie. Obviously Stevie is very interested in money if the negotiations are reportedly going poorly. Why wouldn't he wait until free agency? but that comes with a caveat: resiging our BEST offensive weapon. is the market for wide receivers too pricey? i dont care. you don't buy all the ingredients to make a cake, then complain about sugar prices and tell your kid he's getting dinner rolls for his birthday party instead. Nice one.
ryan42790 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Jeeez everyone needs to calm down for a second. Free Agency is still about a month away, it seems that both sides are still talking, and besides Santonio Holmes there really hasn't been any real resigning in the NFL so it's not like the Bills are being the lazy ones in the NFL. Just wait till after the combine talks. If the Bills and Stevie are still "far apart" then I can see some need to worry, till then there is no reason to believe that this deal will get done, other than superstition "The Bills NEVER sign good players."
Wayne Cubed Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) They're attempting to resign him, which shows they don't "want to get rid" of Stevie. Obviously Stevie is very interested in money if the negotiations are reportedly going poorly. Why wouldn't he wait until free agency? Nice one. The report said far apart, but it didn't say where. Could be years, could be signing bonus, could be up front money. Doesn't necessarily mean Stevie is interested in the money aspect. Maybe he wants stability, ie more years on the contract. Point is people can only guess at what the hold up is, because a source, who is unnamed, came forward right after they had exchanged offers and were going to talk it out some more(coincidence? prolly not) and a gave a really vague statement. IMO this is a ruse used by either the Bills or Johnsons agent. Edited February 21, 2012 by Wayne333
CBD Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Could be years, could signing bonus, could be up front money. Doesn't necessarily mean Stevie is interested in the money aspect. Maybe he wants stability, ie more years on the contract. Wouldn't every single one of those things involve more money in the contract? Regardless, the point is if the Bills arent giving him exactly what he wants he'll wait till free agency and see if someone else will. He holds all the cards. Edited February 21, 2012 by Carey Bender
mountainwampus Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Has anyone ever noticed how many NFL players go into decline after huge pay increases? Remember how the Patriots let Deion Branch walk after being the Super Bowl MVP? He was earning 1M/y, Pats offered 4M/y, eventually left for 7M in Seattle where he failed to live up to the hype (less production, injuries). Eventually, Branch comes back and gets the 4M/y (avg) that the Pats originally offered. Seems like the Pats have the smartest front office in the business.
RealityCheck Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Stevie is a good receiver, he just isn't great. 6 million a year, sure. Is he worth 9 million a year, I just don't see it. It will be interesting how the rest of the league values him. For his sake financially I hope he doesn't end up like Dante.
KOKBILLS Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 The report said far apart, but it didn't say where. Could be years, could be signing bonus, could be up front money. Doesn't necessarily mean Stevie is interested in the money aspect. Maybe he wants stability, ie more years on the contract. Point is people can only guess at what the hold up is, because a source, who is unnamed, came forward right after they had exchanged offers and were going to talk it out some more(coincidence? prolly not) and a gave a really vague statement. IMO this is a ruse used by either the Bills or Johnsons agent. It's about money... It's always about money... Take that to the bank...Pun intended...
Dorkington Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 I really hope we're actively looking at other WR talents. And not the big name guys. There's a very real possibility that we will not have a #1 caliber receiver on the team next year. Or do we think we'll be fine with David Nelson, Brad Smith, and other scrubs?
ThurmasThoman Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 The Giants allowed more points 394 vs 400 than they scored during the season. I believe the only Super Bowl winner (or contestant) to ever do that. If the Bills had an abundance of talent at the WR position resigning Johnson would not be so important. But given the lack of playmakers at the position, losing the only WR on the roster with decent numbers would be foolish. They might need to overpay but that's what you get for waiting too long to get serious about contract negotiations and then having to deal from a position of weakness with each day that brings them closer to the start of free agency. You don't get better by letting good players go and creating more 'needs' to fill. You get better by filling needs before they appear by grooming back ups with starter potential and not letting players walk until you have a backup plan in place. Close the gap in the contract numbers and get it done. this is exactly, 100% true. you DO NOT build through free agency. you build through the draft. period. we're close, we're very very close. sign stevie. OVER PAY STEVIE. whatever. draft a wideout. maybe marcus easley blossoms (or even plays) this year. who knows. then next year, we have THREE wideouts that are "too expensive." sign em all, trade 2. get 5 draft picks. draft 2 wideouts and 3 linebackers. rinse. repeat. win. its how the patriots packers steelers and giants do it. and its how they win superbowls. its like, were sitting here with a top 10 receiver drafted in the 7th round, and a league leading rb that went undrafted. and we need to hit free agency for vincent jackson? NO. wrong. sign our own, lock them up, draft their replacements. then when their stock is high but their value to us is marginalized, trade them and get the picks.
jumbalaya Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) We have no choice but to pay Stevie. Franchise him or pay him. If he winds up in a Jets, Fins or Pats uniform we will regret it for years. We will be drafting the "franchise receiver" this year, next year and the year after ala the Detroit Lions. Took them three times to get it right. Edited February 21, 2012 by jumbalaya
ThurmasThoman Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Stevie is a good receiver, he just isn't great. 6 million a year, sure. Is he worth 9 million a year, I just don't see it. It will be interesting how the rest of the league values him. For his sake financially I hope he doesn't end up like Dante. but you have to value consistency too, more than numbers. if we can retain johnson, were looking at the same coach, qb, #1 wideout, and rb entering camp for the third year in a row. that hasn't happened in buffalo since the 1996 season with marv, kelly, reed and thurm. think about that for a second: its been 16 seasons since we entered camp with those positions unchanged for a 3rd season in a row. there is no reason to think we couldn't win 12-14 games with our offense healthy, and a big defensive draft. resigning steve johnson is more important that resigning a lease on the ralph.
Dorkington Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 but you have to value consistency too, more than numbers. if we can retain johnson, were looking at the same coach, qb, #1 wideout, and rb entering camp for the third year in a row. that hasn't happened in buffalo since the 1996 season with marv, kelly, reed and thurm. think about that for a second: its been 16 seasons since we entered camp with those positions unchanged for a 3rd season in a row. there is no reason to think we couldn't win 12-14 games with our offense healthy, and a big defensive draft. resigning steve johnson is more important that resigning a lease on the ralph. Exactly. Our offense is pretty decent, we just need to *keep it together*. Sure, we could use some WR depth, but that's cheap/easy. Letting our best WR walk though is just foolish. Bring back Stevie, concentrate on defense, and sign some depth at WR, OT and TE (assuming we can keep Chandler).
EldaBillsFan Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Someone said its about money for Stevie....its ALWAYS ABOUT MONEY!... They problem is we have an Old Coach and a Old GM...with old mind sets.....you lock young good players in early....you can't let them be swayed by warmer cities..... that's why the Steelers keep their players....the Pats....you keep building with good young...then eventually it clicks....you can't do it through FA's when nobody wants to be in the city because it has little to offer and they see that you don't take care of the good players you have....we have let a lot of good players go over and over....its fine to replace them but imagine if we just kept them (granted some wanted more than there worth)
ThurmasThoman Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Someone said its about money for Stevie....its ALWAYS ABOUT MONEY!... They problem is we have an Old Coach and a Old GM...with old mind sets.....you lock young good players in early....you can't let them be swayed by warmer cities..... that's why the Steelers keep their players....the Pats....you keep building with good young...then eventually it clicks....you can't do it through FA's when nobody wants to be in the city because it has little to offer and they see that you don't take care of the good players you have....we have let a lot of good players go over and over....its fine to replace them but imagine if we just kept them (granted some wanted more than there worth) there are some really great posts in this thread, and this is one of the best. let me admit something: i am a homer. the bills can do no wrong in my eyes. if we're 0-7 im watching the 8th game, because a far bigger piece of me than im willing to admit believes that we're going to win out and be the 9-7 team that wins a super bowl. people say bills fans are pessimistic-i think i am wildly, blindly optimistic. so, along those lines, i really really try to stay away from criticizing management or our coaches - i believe in my heart they want to win just as much as i do. BUT i will say this: we have a gap in our organizational philosophy that needs to be addressed. we have had good to great drafts since the super bowl years, and there have been some good to great players that have worn our jersey. people have a misconception that winning teams field all stars at every position - thats simply not the case. ive watched most of this patriots "dynasty" thats taken place for a decade, and let me tell you, they have no running back, they have 2 wideouts who are 5'8 white guys, they have wideouts in their secondary: these guys are not the harlem globe trotters on astro turf, to say the least. but what they manage to do, along with most of the other perennially succesful clubs in the league, is keep their own when its cheap, and replace them with DRAFT PICKS when its not. that's where the bills mess up, time and time again. letting good players walk - FOR NOTHING. and what it does, is it makes the draft look bad. its like, you draft stevie in 08. in 2010 he had a damn good season, and wasn't on anyones radar. but I knew he was good. YOU knew he was good. NIX knew he was good. WE ALL KNEW HE WAS GOOD. that was the time to sign him to a cheap, bad contract for 6 years. but we let him play this year on his rookie(?) deal. and what happened, he played great for 4 games. we should have signed him THEN to a marginal contract. but we didnt. and now, the year ends, free agency is set to begin, the league knows he is a great (yes, not good, great) receiver, his price is through the roof, and the bidding war begins. but the problem isnt that it might be expensive to sign him, the problem is that if he leaves, we get nothing. NOTHING. just like POZ. the patriots just almost won the super bowl. they have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. we just finished 6-10. we have 3 picks in the first 3 rounds. THAT is what is wrong with the buffalo bills. we have to start signing our middle of the road talent to sweet heart deals after their 2nd year. we need to start taking risks at THAT end of our organization. spend a little money on guys who might never be great... but if they ARE great and want to leave, we can load up on picks. or they can stay and we have a great player.
dpberr Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 These types of articles are negotiation ploys with the "sources". Time kills a deal. Too quickly, one side gets really disappointed. Too long, both sides get disappointed. Just right, both sides walk away slightly disappointed but generally happy. I think the timing of SJ's deal is still in good shape. Haggling is an art form.
RealityCheck Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 These types of articles are negotiation ploys with the "sources". Time kills a deal. Too quickly, one side gets really disappointed. Too long, both sides get disappointed. Just right, both sides walk away slightly disappointed but generally happy. I think the timing of SJ's deal is still in good shape. Haggling is an art form. Well said. I would not be surprised if a few days before FA that a deal is finalized. there are some really great posts in this thread, and this is one of the best. let me admit something: i am a homer. the bills can do no wrong in my eyes. if we're 0-7 im watching the 8th game, because a far bigger piece of me than im willing to admit believes that we're going to win out and be the 9-7 team that wins a super bowl. people say bills fans are pessimistic-i think i am wildly, blindly optimistic. so, along those lines, i really really try to stay away from criticizing management or our coaches - i believe in my heart they want to win just as much as i do. BUT i will say this: we have a gap in our organizational philosophy that needs to be addressed. we have had good to great drafts since the super bowl years, and there have been some good to great players that have worn our jersey. people have a misconception that winning teams field all stars at every position - thats simply not the case. ive watched most of this patriots "dynasty" thats taken place for a decade, and let me tell you, they have no running back, they have 2 wideouts who are 5'8 white guys, they have wideouts in their secondary: these guys are not the harlem globe trotters on astro turf, to say the least. but what they manage to do, along with most of the other perennially succesful clubs in the league, is keep their own when its cheap, and replace them with DRAFT PICKS when its not. that's where the bills mess up, time and time again. letting good players walk - FOR NOTHING. and what it does, is it makes the draft look bad. its like, you draft stevie in 08. in 2010 he had a damn good season, and wasn't on anyones radar. but I knew he was good. YOU knew he was good. NIX knew he was good. WE ALL KNEW HE WAS GOOD. that was the time to sign him to a cheap, bad contract for 6 years. but we let him play this year on his rookie(?) deal. and what happened, he played great for 4 games. we should have signed him THEN to a marginal contract. but we didnt. and now, the year ends, free agency is set to begin, the league knows he is a great (yes, not good, great) receiver, his price is through the roof, and the bidding war begins. but the problem isnt that it might be expensive to sign him, the problem is that if he leaves, we get nothing. NOTHING. just like POZ. the patriots just almost won the super bowl. they have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds. we just finished 6-10. we have 3 picks in the first 3 rounds. THAT is what is wrong with the buffalo bills. we have to start signing our middle of the road talent to sweet heart deals after their 2nd year. we need to start taking risks at THAT end of our organization. spend a little money on guys who might never be great... but if they ARE great and want to leave, we can load up on picks. or they can stay and we have a great player. Don't ever be ashamed to admit that you are a homer. You make a lot of sense to me.
D521646 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 I was browsing other fan fourms today and the sense out there is that ANY of those teams fan base would take SJ in a heartbeat. I'd say 75% would of course there are some that don't want him comparing him to TO and Moss cancers, but they simply don't know much about how great of a character guy SJ really is. Tim-
BeastMode54 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 I'll try to find a link but it seems that he wants around 8 and the Bills will only pay 6. If this is true and we lose him I'm gonna b livid
stony Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Has anyone ever noticed how many NFL players go into decline after huge pay increases? Remember how the Patriots let Deion Branch walk after being the Super Bowl MVP? He was earning 1M/y, Pats offered 4M/y, eventually left for 7M in Seattle where he failed to live up to the hype (less production, injuries). Eventually, Branch comes back and gets the 4M/y (avg) that the Pats originally offered. Seems like the Pats have the smartest front office in the business. Yeah, and having Brady throwing to him didn't affect his stats? There's just as many guys who play hard after their payday as there are that tank it after they get paid. The media and many fan's 'innate negativity' just like to highlight the guys who suck after the big payday.
Beerball Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Someone said its about money for Stevie....its ALWAYS ABOUT MONEY!... They problem is we have an Old Coach and a Old GM...with old mind sets.....you lock young good players in early....you can't let them be swayed by warmer cities..... that's why the Steelers keep their players....the Pats....you keep building with good young...then eventually it clicks....you can't do it through FA's when nobody wants to be in the city because it has little to offer and they see that you don't take care of the good players you have....we have let a lot of good players go over and over....its fine to replace them but imagine if we just kept them (granted some wanted more than there worth) GM does not involve himself in contract negotiations and I'd hazzard to guess neither does the HC.
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