Buffalo Barbarian Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 http://blogs.buffalonews.com/billboard/2012/02/source-bills-johnson-exchange-proposals.html I think meeting at the combine is dumb because Nix needs be focusing on the players, talk to him before or after. Channel 2 news said they were far apart Buddy quit being so dang tight and pay him some money, you did say Ralph has never put financial restrictions on you so lets go.
thewildrabbit Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 I like SJ, but then if the guy is forcing you to pay 9 million a year would you rather have Mike Wallace, Vincent Jackson, Dwayne Bowe or DeSean Jackson ? Some team is going to sign Mike Wallace and give up its first round pick Cincy or NE? Then perhaps Wes Welker, Marques Colston, Mario Manningham, Reggie Wayne who are supposedly in Stevie's range. Tho, I dunno how you can compare Welker to Johnson 1. Larry Fitzgerald - 2011 Salary $21,500,000 - Base Salary $20,000,000 - Signing Bonus $1,250,000 - Other Bonuses $250,000 - Contract 8 years / $120,000,000 - Signing Bonus 8 years / $10,000,000 - Guaranteed Money $50,000,000 - Last Year of Contract 2018 - Age 28 - Team Arizona Cardinals 2. Calvin Johnson - 2011 Salary $12,629,133 - Base Salary $8,875,000 - Signing Bonus $2,333,333 - Other Bonuses $1,420,800 - Contract 6 years / $55,500,000 - Signing Bonus 6 years / $14,000,000 - Guaranteed Money $27,178,000 - Last Year of Contract 2012 - Age 25 - Team Detroit Lions 3. Brandon Marshall - 2011 Salary $10,600,000 - Base Salary $6,500,000 - Signing Bonus $1,100,000 - Other Bonuses $3,000,000 - Contract 5 years / $47,300,000 - Signing Bonus 6 years / $5,500,000 - Guaranteed Money $25,000,000 - Last Year of Contract 2014 - Age 27 - Team Miami Dolphins 4. Steve Smith - 2011 Salary $8,550,000 - Base Salary $7,000,000 - Signing Bonus $1,550,000 - Other Bonuses $0 - Contract 6 years / $43,850,000 - Signing Bonus 6 years / $9,300,000 - Guaranteed Money $0 - Last Year of Contract 2012 - Age 32 - Team Carolina Panthers 5. Miles Austin - 2011 Salary $8,540,000 - Base Salary $8,540,000 - Signing Bonus $0 - Other Bonuses $0 - Contract 7 years / $57,168,000 - Signing Bonus 7 years / $0 - Guaranteed Money $18,000,000 - Last Year of Contract 2016 - Age 27 - Team Dallas Cowboys 6. Andre Johnson - 2011 Salary $8,828,571 - Base Salary $6,000,000 - Signing Bonus $400,000 - Other Bonuses $2,428,571 - Contract 7 years / $62,700,000 - Signing Bonus 7 years / $2,800,000 - Guaranteed Money $48,000,000 - Last Year of Contract 2016 - Age 30 - Team Houston Texans 7. Reggie Wayne - 2011 Salary $8,033,333 - Base Salary $5,950,000 - Signing Bonus $2,083,333 - Other Bonuses $0 - Contract 6 years / $39,500,000 - Signing Bonus 4 years / $12,500,000 - Guaranteed Money $0 - Last Year of Contract 2011 - Age 32 - Team Indianapolis Colts 8. Roddy White - 2011 Salary $6,525,000 - Base Salary $4,000,000 - Signing Bonus $1,000,000 - Other Bonuses $1,525,000 - Contract 6 years / $48,000,000 - Signing Bonus 6 years / $6,000,000 - Guaranteed Money $18,600,000 - Last Year of Contract 2014 - Age 29 - Team Atlanta Falcons 9. Greg Jennings - 2011 Salary $6,512,500 - Base Salary $2,700,000 - Signing Bonus $2,812,500 - Other Bonuses $1,000,000 - Contract 4 years / $26,885,000 - Signing Bonus 4 years / $11,250,000 - Guaranteed Money $16,250,000 - Last Year of Contract 2012 - Age 27 - Team Green Bay Packers 10. Anquan Boldin - 2011 Salary $6,000,000 - Base Salary $6,000,000 - Signing Bonus $0 - Other Bonuses $0 - Contract 4 year / $28,000,000 - Signing Bonus 4 years / $0 - Guaranteed Money $10,000,000 - Last Year of Contract 2013 - Age 30 - Team Baltimore Ravens http://www.numeroten...e-nfl-2011.html with 48 WRs on the market who knows what the Bills are thinking
Wayne Cubed Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) My only comment will be this, you haven't seen any team sign their "big" FA yet. Drew Brees, Ray Rice, Carl Nicks, Wes Welker... none of them have been signed. That's not to say they won't get the franchise tag, although I doubt Brees, Rice or Welker gets the tag. I just think its a tad bit to early to scream the sky is falling, especially with talks this week. Most of this could be just purposeful leakage to gain leverage. Take for example the labor talks last year. They were miles and miles apart according to reports. The season was going to get cancelled. Then BAM, with the deadline to start canceling regular season games approaching, in practically a couple days, a deal emerges. Now I know the stakes were a little different, but the sky has not fallen yet. Talks this week should reveal much more IMO. Edited February 20, 2012 by Wayne333
todd Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 I think meeting at the combine is dumb because Nix needs be focusing on the players, talk to him before or after. Channel 2 news said they were far apart Buddy quit being so dang tight and pay him some money, you did say Ralph has never put financial restrictions on you so lets go. Yes, because Nix can't do two things at once. Only one thing at a time or it is stupid! Yay you!
first_and_ten Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Nothing new here. This has been the situation for several months now. SJ is going to free agency. He'd be crazy not to at this point. I think that the Bills still have a chance to retain him if he doesn't get an offer close to what he is asking, but I think it's unlikely. Yes,probably the only way to keep him now is to franchise tag him. Why would he not test the market at this point. The question is why didn't the team make every effort to sign him during the year like they did with Fitz. I'm very cynical about this team and wonder if they are making a half hearted effort just so they can say they tried, blah blah blah.
8-8 Forever? Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Yes,probably the only way to keep him now is to franchise tag him. Why would he not test the market at this point. The question is why didn't the team make every effort to sign him during the year like they did with Fitz. I'm very cynical about this team and wonder if they are making a half hearted effort just so they can say they tried, blah blah blah. Test the market. The Bills will always be there as no one wants to go there for what they pay. If the market is poor, then and only then sign with the Bills. This is easy if you are SJs agent. The only risk is the Bills sign someone else in the meantime and you are stuck with a deal lower than what the Bills offered plus you have to move to another team, another scheme etc. But that is not a big deal, after all , its all about the money and getting a ring, neither of which he is getting from the Bills.
CBD Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Yes,probably the only way to keep him now is to franchise tag him. Why would he not test the market at this point. The question is why didn't the team make every effort to sign him during the year like they did with Fitz. I'm very cynical about this team and wonder if they are making a half hearted effort just so they can say they tried, blah blah blah. Sounded like Stevie wasn't open to it prior to, and during, the season.
Smears Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 I really want to see Stevie back next year in a Bills uniform. But, if they wants to "see this thing through" with the Bills he should humble himself. $9 million??? Really, he think hes worth that much?? With the assortment of talent at WR in the FA market this year, we can get someone already proven around that price. Secondly, he wasnt making big money to begin with, such a huge pay increase might make his ego worse. If he cared about the Bills future so much he would allow a smaller contract to allow money for FA signings. This would help the team as a whole. His agent obviously is pushing the envelope on the money matter, talking up Stevie. All Im thinking about is the open drops and his antics that have hurt the team. He seems to care about his image alot more than he should. Another TO??? Or Moss?? Possibly, if he gets the big money....... It will hurt the Bills if he doesnt comeback. But he is replaceable.
EldaBillsFan Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 This is why we can attract big time FA ..... when you don't even take care of your best players...other players don't want to play for your franchise......
section122 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 This is why we can attract big time FA ..... when you don't even take care of your best players...other players don't want to play for your franchise...... Agreed... I'll also add when your fan base doesn't support the players or turns on them at the drop of a hat. I beg you posters that think the Bills should resign Stevie on the cheap to go check out other teams message boards. Stevie is a hot commodity. He WILL get paid. I can't stand this talk of letting him walk for any reason. It's not your money! Then Bills will be under the salary cap regardless of how much he gets paid. I would also like to add for all you VJ fans go check out there stats and tell me who you would rather have. I'll also add DeSean Jackson to this list. They both make plays and have great games but there is zero consistency to them. They both also have made a big deal out of their contracts and let it affect their play. Stevie wished people a Happy New Years for crying out loud! I know its just a fan board but please check out facts and bring them to your argument. I'll post stats from the last 2 years for you: DeSean Jackson Games Played (GP) 29 Catches © 105 Yards (Y) 2017 TDs 11 (1 rushing included in that number) Vincent Jackson GP 21 (he held out!) C 74 Yards 1354 TDs 12 Stevie GP 32 C 158 Y 2077 TDs 17 So I ask who is the better receiver? Also let me add both VJ and DJ have MUCH better qbs throwing to them. The last tidbit I'll pass on DeSean has never had more than 62 catches in a year and VJ has never had more than 68. Stevie topped both of those numbers each of the last 2 years! Stop the insanity PLEASE! :wallbash:
mrags Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 IMO, Resigning Stevie makes or breaks the credibility of this front office. Nix preaches building through the draft, developing these players and then resigning them. Stevie Johnson is exactly that. The fanbase will lose it if they don't resign this guy. Unfortunately for us, just like Poz, Whitner, Lynch, Evans and anyone else recently cut or traded, Stevie is NOT one of Nix or Gaileys guys. They can just point to 2 years of dropped passes (not that I think it's been that bad), and unnecessary penalties and horseplay on and around the team (again, not that I think it's been that bad). Yup, Buddy has an excuse to chop his star player and make us all believe it was the right thing to do. I really hope he stays and at top 10 money (probably what he's asking) he's a steal and the best and most complete WR we've had on this team since Eric Moulds. He needs to be signed or we are a joke of an org.
zonabb Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Agreed... I'll also add when your fan base doesn't support the players or turns on them at the drop of a hat. I beg you posters that think the Bills should resign Stevie on the cheap to go check out other teams message boards. Stevie is a hot commodity. He WILL get paid. I can't stand this talk of letting him walk for any reason. It's not your money! Then Bills will be under the salary cap regardless of how much he gets paid. I would also like to add for all you VJ fans go check out there stats and tell me who you would rather have. I'll also add DeSean Jackson to this list. They both make plays and have great games but there is zero consistency to them. They both also have made a big deal out of their contracts and let it affect their play. Stevie wished people a Happy New Years for crying out loud! I know its just a fan board but please check out facts and bring them to your argument. I'll post stats from the last 2 years for you: DeSean Jackson Games Played (GP) 29 Catches © 105 Yards (Y) 2017 TDs 11 (1 rushing included in that number) Vincent Jackson GP 21 (he held out!) C 74 Yards 1354 TDs 12 Stevie GP 32 C 158 Y 2077 TDs 17 So I ask who is the better receiver? Also let me add both VJ and DJ have MUCH better qbs throwing to them. The last tidbit I'll pass on DeSean has never had more than 62 catches in a year and VJ has never had more than 68. Stevie topped both of those numbers each of the last 2 years! Stop the insanity PLEASE! :wallbash: Sure, I'll answer and play along. Your problem is using absolute values as an argument when football we all know is about games and what you do in games. So as valuable as the argument is over absolute stats, it has major flaws. The first and most obvious is your homerism and only using the last two seasons because that's all Stevie has of value. That does two things, it makes his stats look better than Jackson, who held out last year but it also discounts his stats prior to that, which is convenient to your argument. In statistics we call that cherry picking, which means it sucks. When you look at averages, you get a better idea of the player and in the case of Jackson, he might not have the catches (because SD has had other weapons to spread the ball around like Gates and Tomlinson) but his career YPC is 4.5 yards higher. Stevie's TD rate is slightly higher but the sample size (games played) is lower meaning the results aren't as valid as a larger sample size, which would be Jackson's games played. All that aside, if you want to cherry pick. Jackson AND Wallace had more yards, more TDs, and a better YPC this past year that Stevie, on LESS catches, which shouldn't be a knock on them but proof they're better. More production out of less catches, how is that bad again? In a league based on production with the last season the best predictor of success next season (you don't estimate tomorrow by what happened 5 years ago as much as what happened 5 days ago), Jackson AND Wallace are both better and the guys making the decisions and signing the checks will valiudate that by giving them better, bigger contracts than Stevie. Edited February 20, 2012 by zonabb
Pirate Angel Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Unfortunately for us, just like Poz, Whitner, Lynch, Evans and anyone else recently cut or traded, Stevie is NOT one of Nix or Gaileys guys. They can just point to 2 years of dropped passes (not that I think it's been that bad), and unnecessary penalties and horseplay on and around the team (again, not that I think it's been that bad). Yup, Buddy has an excuse to chop his star player and make us all believe it was the right thing to do. I really hope he stays and at top 10 money (probably what he's asking) he's a steal and the best and most complete WR we've had on this team since Eric Moulds. He needs to be signed or we are a joke of an org. Although he was not drafted by Nix and Gailey, he never saw the field before Nix and Gailey....so on some level would that not make him Nix and Gaileys?
T master Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 GOOD, we need to sign him. The last thing we need is for Johnson and Demetrius Bell our 7th round pick starters, who are only 25, to leave and have the board clamouring for who to pick in the first round to replace them. We've have the two of them and Fred Jackson on the cheap the last few years, while first round picks bust out one after another. We need to resign our solid starters and use our top pics on positions of weakness rather than replacing these guys... All that you say is true but once these small town guys do good they all get the big head and want elite money & forget where & what they came from & want to retire off there first real contract & usually wind up like Pearless Price (i always thought that was a cool name) being a huge bust for the money when they move on !! I don't see him staying , with his antics last year with the trying to be a show off after he scored rather than staying humble like say a Andre Reed , i think his mind set has completely changed & greed has set in & he will no longer be a Bill after this off season !! I've been wrong plenty before & i hope i'm wrong again but i don't think so this time !!!! I think he will join lil Donte in SF !!
dave mcbride Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 I strongly suspect that the Bills are going to go very hard for Vincent Jackson. He's bigger and stronger than Stevie, and Gailey has said that those are the sorts of receivers he likes. If you take away 2010 (when he was suspended), his stats are clearly better than Johnson's too: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackVi00.htm . I like Stevie, but I think the likelihood of him coming back is small. And I suspect that they love Vincent Jackson. If they had to pick between the two, they'd take the latter. A wild card in all of this: there are some teams that are way under the cap and need to spend money. Tampa Bay, for instance, is $67 million under the cap. It'll be very competitive for the best players.
DrDawkinstein Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 One thing the Bills have going for themselves is that this is a WR-rich Free Agency. ESPN did a segment on the available WRs and Stevie wasnt even mentioned. It went V. Jackson, Bowe, Meachem, Colston, and Manningham. I understand Stevie's desire to test the market, it's the smart thing to do in his position. But he also needs to consider that he also has lots of competition. Now we just need to hope that the first team to sign one doesnt set the market at something ridiculous like $15mil/year.
Ramius Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 One thing the Bills have going for themselves is that this is a WR-rich Free Agency. ESPN did a segment on the available WRs and Stevie wasnt even mentioned. It went V. Jackson, Bowe, Meachem, Colston, and Manningham. I understand Stevie's desire to test the market, it's the smart thing to do in his position. But he also needs to consider that he also has lots of competition. Now we just need to hope that the first team to sign one doesnt set the market at something ridiculous like $15mil/year. ESPN has their head up their asses. Not saying that fans are the best barometer, but the majority of fanbases that need WR help have Stevie on their short list. The real question is, what happens when the Bills foolishly let Stevie walk, and Vincent Jackson laughs at our offer and goes to another team?
Wayne Cubed Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 ESPN has their head up their asses. Not saying that fans are the best barometer, but the majority of fanbases that need WR help have Stevie on their short list. The real question is, what happens when the Bills foolishly let Stevie walk, and Vincent Jackson laughs at our offer and goes to another team? I think thats an excellent point. Why risk ending up with nothing? You let Stevie walk, who wants to be here, and put all your eggs in one basket hoping you'll land one of the other WR? Its free agency, the player gets to choose where he wants to go.. sometimes the money doesn't matter.
DrDawkinstein Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) ESPN has their head up their asses. Not saying that fans are the best barometer, but the majority of fanbases that need WR help have Stevie on their short list. The real question is, what happens when the Bills foolishly let Stevie walk, and Vincent Jackson laughs at our offer and goes to another team? Oh, I dont disagree. I would put SJ on that list over a few of them. Just saying that it's not the same market that Nate Clements walked on, or anything like that. Also, its not only the Bills' decision, obviously Stevie has to want to sign here. I definitely think that SJ is a MUST sign. Edited February 20, 2012 by DrDareustein
dave mcbride Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 The real question is, what happens when the Bills foolishly let Stevie walk, and Vincent Jackson laughs at our offer and goes to another team? That's a good question. It's a plausible outcome.
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