stevestojan Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 didn't see this in the thread, sorry if its in here. I saw the follow up picture of course, but not the text. https://twitter.com/#!/StevieJohnson13/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2FutH3Gct1
Bufcomments Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Stevie got a good deal. Well done Bills We fix this Defense we on our way.
section122 Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 a good reply, but you are only looking at vj and dj and not bowe or colston or maybe a couple other receivers who could have came at 3-5 milion a year with the saving going toward other positions. Part of it is the type of catches VJ makes, have you seen them? Bowe too, looking strickly at numbers, ya they are low on those two guys but they have true upside. I think vj was hurt alot so your argument is lessened by this and DJ, while not a true number 1, is a great 2 and much more effective in the deep game (like evans was) which you need across from a well rounded guy like stevie. saying that gaileys system isnt for a fast guy is a joke, any offense is better if the guys are faster, period. I think its harder to get a true burner these days than a big guy w hands. People talk about stevies upside saying hes got alot. I think he has almost none...hes already great at the routes and mental side of it minus the antics. He will not get any faster or taller, so whats left to improve on? Also saying SJ did it by himself without another threat is chicken vs the egg. On one hand he gets alot more looks and balls his way, on the other, coverage is tighter. Imagine if we had kept our true deep threat last year, the season we almost had...a full year of evans johnson and fitz. It would have been great. Im glad we resigned stevie, honestly, i am not a SJ hater at all and really like watching him make his moves off the line. That being said my main point was not to overpay. 7.5 mil a year is only 1.5 mil more than what was ideal in my mind so, its ok i guess. 1.5 mil less to throw at another player we may lose out on. but its in the past now so i say... welcome back stevie. I think we are both happy about the signing so but now I have to disagree with a few things in your post No way Bowe or Colston come in for 3-5 million a year. Bowe was tagged so he is off the market but I would like to point out he has a serious reputation for dropping balls (moreso than Stevie). I would like Colston and think he is an excellent player, however he isn't a burner either. VJ wasn't hurt he chose to sit out games the year before last in a contract dispute. As for upside I would think a 26 year old receiver (Stevie) has more upside than a 29 year old (VJ) who is a burner as age will more than likely catch up with VJ soon. I will agree with your chicken and egg theory though. It is tough to figure what accounts more in those situations. However I think we can both agree that Rivers is better than Fitz. For 1.5 million I'm glad your not upset and I like the structures of his and Fitzs contract of being frontloaded. As Stevie comes into his prime he will be affordable and the cap will be available to fill in spots around him. I think 24 million in the first 3 years is acceptable and 12 over the last 2 is a steal.
3rdand12 Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 Very nice of you to make get this in perspective for guys like me. "For 1.5 million I'm glad your not upset and I like the structures of his and Fitzs contract of being frontloaded. As Stevie comes into his prime he will be affordable and the cap will be available to fill in spots around him. I think 24 million in the first 3 years is acceptable and 12 over the last 2 is a steal. " it seems that The Front Office and Buddy and Brandon are showing more business wisdom and fair dealing too. and that the players are willing to stay on board. I think we are starting to see an honest Bill of Goods that is worthwhile lately. Yep i been sniffing the koolaid again.
The Cincinnati Kid Posted March 6, 2012 Posted March 6, 2012 I really like the front loaded contracts as well. They will make restructuring easier down the road.
McBeane Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 Contract details including bonus payments He only counts as $4.3 million against the cap for 2012? Wow. I really like the look of this deal.
Cash Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 a good reply, but you are only looking at vj and dj and not bowe or colston or maybe a couple other receivers who could have came at 3-5 milion a year with the saving going toward other positions. Part of it is the type of catches VJ makes, have you seen them? Bowe too, looking strickly at numbers, ya they are low on those two guys but they have true upside. I think vj was hurt alot so your argument is lessened by this and DJ, while not a true number 1, is a great 2 and much more effective in the deep game (like evans was) which you need across from a well rounded guy like stevie. saying that gaileys system isnt for a fast guy is a joke, any offense is better if the guys are faster, period. I think its harder to get a true burner these days than a big guy w hands. People talk about stevies upside saying hes got alot. I think he has almost none...hes already great at the routes and mental side of it minus the antics. He will not get any faster or taller, so whats left to improve on? Also saying SJ did it by himself without another threat is chicken vs the egg. On one hand he gets alot more looks and balls his way, on the other, coverage is tighter. Imagine if we had kept our true deep threat last year, the season we almost had...a full year of evans johnson and fitz. It would have been great. Im glad we resigned stevie, honestly, i am not a SJ hater at all and really like watching him make his moves off the line. That being said my main point was not to overpay. 7.5 mil a year is only 1.5 mil more than what was ideal in my mind so, its ok i guess. 1.5 mil less to throw at another player we may lose out on. but its in the past now so i say... welcome back stevie. As section122 said, we're all pretty happy about this signing, so But there's a couple of points I want to make to reinforce why this signing is so great. First, even with Stevie in the fold, we still have a need at WR. We have quantity but not quality (except for Stevie, who is definitely quality). So if we had let Stevie walk and replaced him with a free agent WR, that guy had better have cost us less than $7.5mil/year. Second, look at the history of veteran WRs changing teams, whether by trade or free agency. There are a few exceptions (Jerry Rice, Randy Moss to NE, James Lofton), but they usually bust(Peerless Price, Randy Moss to OAK, Randy Moss back to MIN, Randy Moss to TEN). So it's hard to figure on signing a free agent to replace Stevie as a lateral move or better. Third, by resigning our own guy prior to free agency, not only do we avoid the risk (compared to replacing him with a free agent), but we also avoided the "Winner's Curse" of bidding for him (or another free agent) on the open market. If you're not familiar with the Winner's Curse, it basically says that when something's up for open bidding, the winner is whoever overvalues the asset the most. Anyone who values the asset correctly will be outbid by someone who overpays. Stevie almost certainly would've gotten more money on the open market, because there would've been several bidders for his services. Instead, the Bills were able to reach a deal that both they and Stevie considered fair. That's a lot better for the Bills. Last, a point about Colston specifically, since he's probably the only marquee free agent that will sign for equal or less than what we paid for Stevie. Colston is a good player. BUT... he's a little injury-prone, very inconsistent, and despite playing in one of the most prolific passing offenses in league history, with a vastly superior QB in Drew Brees, his receiving numbers over the last few years have been almost identical to Stevie's. If Stevie isn't a #1 WR, then Colston isn't even a #2. (For the record, I find the "who is and isn't a #1 WR" debate exhausting, and don't care. Stevie is a good player, and a good starter. So is Colston, but Stevie is better and younger than Colston.)
3rdand12 Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 "First, even with Stevie in the fold, we still have a need at WR." i can see that. But what kind of receiver we need is best left to Chan. Most of us want to see a big fast fellow who can catch, gets seperation and has a wide target area. Does not seem too much to ask does it? I think we can get it through draft one maybe two even, this time around. But we should consider a mid tier FA to get us over the hump and keep us competetive. But i am not sure. i am defensive. and want to draft all D till we are the Monsters of Fort Niagra or something catchy.
RuntheDamnBall Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 "First, even with Stevie in the fold, we still have a need at WR." i can see that. But what kind of receiver we need is best left to Chan. Most of us want to see a big fast fellow who can catch, gets seperation and has a wide target area. Does not seem too much to ask does it? Right. Ideally, we can get an experienced A.J. Green / Calvin Johnson type who comes cheap.
BobChalmers Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 I think we are both happy about the signing so but now I have to disagree with a few things in your post No way Bowe or Colston come in for 3-5 million a year. Bowe was tagged so he is off the market but I would like to point out he has a serious reputation for dropping balls (moreso than Stevie). I would like Colston and think he is an excellent player, however he isn't a burner either. VJ wasn't hurt he chose to sit out games the year before last in a contract dispute. As for upside I would think a 26 year old receiver (Stevie) has more upside than a 29 year old (VJ) who is a burner as age will more than likely catch up with VJ soon. I will agree with your chicken and egg theory though. It is tough to figure what accounts more in those situations. However I think we can both agree that Rivers is better than Fitz. For 1.5 million I'm glad your not upset and I like the structures of his and Fitzs contract of being frontloaded. As Stevie comes into his prime he will be affordable and the cap will be available to fill in spots around him. I think 24 million in the first 3 years is acceptable and 12 over the last 2 is a steal. I could see Colston at 5M. Bowe's going to get more than Stevie got.
Captain Hindsight Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 I could see Colston at 5M. Bowe's going to get more than Stevie got. Thats true since he got the Franchise tag Colston will get much more than 5 mil IMO
BobChalmers Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Right. Ideally, we can get an experienced A.J. Green / Calvin Johnson type who comes cheap. Nix was pretty clear he wants to add a big target with some speed - the sort "who is open when he's not open" were his words, I beleive. In his words, again, "a Calvin Johnson type, although obviously there's only one of him". I think they might have been targeting VJ all along. Dunno if I agree with the choice - there's others out there I'd probably prefer and would cost less. Thats true since he got the Franchise tag Colston will get much more than 5 mil IMO If they sign Bowe to a longer deal, it will be for less that the franchise number I'm sure, and they yank the tag. Colston's injury issues may hurt him - and the fact that he appears to be just one cog in a very strong passing game centered on Brees. Edited March 8, 2012 by BobChalmers
Beerball Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 I could see Colston at 5M. Bowe's going to get more than Stevie got. I want Robinson, has a Buddy connection too I think.
3rdand12 Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 Since stevie was signed i am looking at this a little differently. First factor is how much Stevie's contract turned out to be. I expected more the way it had drug on. It turned out to be well written and very fair to both sides. I stroke of luck, abit of genius and a (second factor)...genuine relationship between Buddy Chan Steven and Fizzpatrick devloping. So if/when we grab a FA receiver do we really want to pay much above stevie? And should we get someone who is a near elite type or recognized #1? I think we get someone below Johnsons pay grade. to not make waves or break the synergy. Now if we draft one i feel the opposite. If we get a fellow who can develop into a superstar thats fine by me at 10 or 41. Consider that we should be getting Stevie some help through free agents that can take coverage away from him and be a deep threat. That what stevie has not provided. he has the other tangibles. I would hate to see a FA WR like VJ usurping our Stevie Johnson in his new position as the future and a leader of our team by next year. Let him become a mentor with some strong rookies, not compete for the football or being the go to guy. I used to feel completely opposite about this subject. Did i use usurp correctly?
DrDawkinstein Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Since stevie was signed i am looking at this a little differently. First factor is how much Stevie's contract turned out to be. I expected more the way it had drug on. It turned out to be well written and very fair to both sides. I stroke of luck, abit of genius and a (second factor)...genuine relationship between Buddy Chan Steven and Fizzpatrick devloping. So if/when we grab a FA receiver do we really want to pay much above stevie? And should we get someone who is a near elite type or recognized #1? I think we get someone below Johnsons pay grade. to not make waves or break the synergy. Now if we draft one i feel the opposite. If we get a fellow who can develop into a superstar thats fine by me at 10 or 41. Consider that we should be getting Stevie some help through free agents that can take coverage away from him and be a deep threat. That what stevie has not provided. he has the other tangibles. I would hate to see a FA WR like VJ usurping our Stevie Johnson in his new position as the future and a leader of our team by next year. Let him become a mentor with some strong rookies, not compete for the football or being the go to guy. I used to feel completely opposite about this subject. Did i use usurp correctly? Well, if we're worried about how Stevie would feel, why dont we ask him? http://wgr550.com/Stevie-reaching-out-to-Vincent-Jackson-/9034669?pid=225165
todd Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 You forgot "...IN BED!!!" PTR Travis Henry is no longer on the team, PTR.
DrDawkinstein Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 he is a good kid isn't he ? Thanks DD He is a great kid, and with the new contract I have a feeling we'll get to watch him grow into a great man. Based on that article, Im not worried about him getting "jealous" of another player's contract. He got his money, he's happy financially. Now he wants to see the team win. After what he has seen in Buffalo over the last 4 years, I'm not surprised. I think if we had a chance at someone like VJ, who could help take this team to the next level, then SJ would have no problem with the team throwing money at him. SJ got his, now it's about winning. Love it. Go Bills!
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