Danny Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Something to keep in mind is when the player signed their contract. The longer ago, the less the cap hit will be as the years progress. Alot of these guys, if they were free agents today would be making even more a year. My point is that while $8 million may seem alot compared to the top nfl wr.. i think it is a fair price to pay for the services of Stevie Johnson. (maybe a little higher than he is worth but not unreasonable)
SpecialK15 Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 -I highly doubt there is a Victor Cruz hidden on the Bills WR -There isn't even a #2 receiver on the Bills. Kamar Aiken could be that guy, just throwing it out there. I see a lot of SJ in him and they had nearly identical pre-draft comments from SI.com. Who even knows what Easley can do... All that said, we should re-sign SJ. Every year FAs make more and more off new contracts, so it's only natural that his camp is asking for a higher price.
greenmohawk Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Stevie wants to be a Free Agent, test the market and make a fat check. The Bills can't wait on him then, they must actively pursue other wide receivers so not left with a hole in the lineup. He can be replaced, but a 6-7 tightend thats' a touchdown scoring machine must be resigned.
papazoid Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Kamar Aiken could be that guy, just throwing it out there. I see a lot of SJ in him and they had nearly identical pre-draft comments from SI.com. Who even knows what Easley can do... All that said, we should re-sign SJ. Every year FAs make more and more off new contracts, so it's only natural that his camp is asking for a higher price. i agree with you on Kamar Aiken. i think, eventually Stevie signs with the Bills.....because i don't think another team is going to top their offer, i really don't. just a bad time to a free agent WR, too many quality guys out there. once Stevie becomes a free agent and guages the market, he will take the Bills offer.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Can someone please explain to me the mindset of the Bills FO by already saying they will not use the tag on SJ if they cant reach a deal? I dont get it. You would have him for one more season and obviously he will want to perform well since he could be hitting the market next year. This would also give the Bills an extra year to have exclusive contract negotiations with SJ. I just dont get it
Coach Tuesday Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Can someone please explain to me the mindset of the Bills FO by already saying they will not use the tag on SJ if they cant reach a deal? I dont get it. You would have him for one more season and obviously he will want to perform well since he could be hitting the market next year. This would also give the Bills an extra year to have exclusive contract negotiations with SJ. I just dont get it I can: threatening to tag him would be threatening to guarantee him $9 million as a worse-case scenario. For a player of questionable marketability who is coming off of a seventh-round pick rookie contract, it's not too terrible of a threat... Edited February 23, 2012 by Coach Tuesday
CBD Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Can someone please explain to me the mindset of the Bills FO by already saying they will not use the tag on SJ if they cant reach a deal? They haven't officially came out and said that. I've seen speculated reports, or reports from "sources," but the Bills haven't said that. On if he will use the franchise tag on Johnson if necessary:Now I wouldnt get into that. http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/Transcript-General-Manager-Buddy-Nix/037507a7-365d-401e-9d19-477e152d0082 Edited February 23, 2012 by Carey Bender
RealityCheck Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 I can: threatening to tag him would be threatening to guarantee him $9 million as a worse-case scenario. For a player of questionable marketability who is coming off of a seventh-round pick rookie contract, it's not too terrible of a threat... Thank you for the common sense. If they are offering him 6 million a year, why send the mixed message that he is worth 9 million a year. The reality is that the franchise tag on receivers will be significantly more than that. Also, Johnson's camp needs to be wary of the situation Whitner found himself in by overestimating his market value at the time versus what the Bills offered him.
Pondslider Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Thank you for the common sense. If they are offering him 6 million a year, why send the mixed message that he is worth 9 million a year. The reality is that the franchise tag on receivers will be significantly more than that. Also, Johnson's camp needs to be wary of the situation Whitner found himself in by overestimating his market value at the time versus what the Bills offered him. I don't think Johnson and Whitner are at all comparable. Whitner was an average player coming off a big contract probably looking for a raise. Johnson has outplayed his current deal and won't have any trouble getting a big raise somewhere.
BiggieScooby Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 The guaranteed portion is what concerns me. It seems if they could guarantee more upfront this would be a done deal. Let's assume the Bills have offered SJ 5 years at $6 million per season with $9 million guaranteed. The Bills cash to cap strategy would mean they would carry SJ 2012 salary at $9 million, or the same as franchising him. If they are guaranteeing any receiver over $9 million why not franchise SJ and begin long-term negotiations with the upper-hand? This leads me to believe our FO and coache have decided to move on from SJ.
Ramius Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Thank you for the common sense. If they are offering him 6 million a year, why send the mixed message that he is worth 9 million a year. The reality is that the franchise tag on receivers will be significantly more than that. Also, Johnson's camp needs to be wary of the situation Whitner found himself in by overestimating his market value at the time versus what the Bills offered him. Stevie is going to get at least 8-9 million per season on the open market. May as well be the Bills paying it to keep him. But it's a fool's errand to think Stevie is going to have to settle for 5-6 million per season.
RealityCheck Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Stevie is going to get at least 8-9 million per season on the open market. May as well be the Bills paying it to keep him. But it's a fool's errand to think Stevie is going to have to settle for 5-6 million per season. You avoid my point completely. All i am saying is that if the Bills value him far below what the current franchise tag would be then it makes no sense to franchise him. Apparently what you disagree with is how the Bills value him. Until SJ signs a new deal and the terms become public you are just wildly speculating on his actual market value, how the Bills actually value him, and what SJ is actually asking for. I am not saying that your guess is any better or worse than anyone else's. But at this juncture it still remains a guess.
Ramius Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 You avoid my point completely. All i am saying is that if the Bills value him far below what the current franchise tag would be then it makes no sense to franchise him. Apparently what you disagree with is how the Bills value him. Until SJ signs a new deal and the terms become public you are just wildly speculating on his actual market value, how the Bills actually value him, and what SJ is actually asking for. I am not saying that your guess is any better or worse than anyone else's. But at this juncture it still remains a guess. Regardless of how much they disagree on his value per year (6 or 10 million), he's obviously going to get more than 9 million guaranteed from anyone. So it only makes sense to franchise him (if they don't re-sign him prior to FA) and try to work out a long term deal, as opposed to letting him walk for nothing.
stony Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Regardless of how much they disagree on his value per year (6 or 10 million), he's obviously going to get more than 9 million guaranteed from anyone. So it only makes sense to franchise him (if they don't re-sign him prior to FA) and try to work out a long term deal, as opposed to letting him walk for nothing. Agreed. The concept of using the Franchise tag and THEN negotiating for a long-term deal seems to be lost on some.
Erik Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Agreed. The concept of using the Franchise tag and THEN negotiating for a long-term deal seems to be lost on some. Isn't that funny since that was the whole point of the franchise tag in the first place?
RealityCheck Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Agreed. The concept of using the Franchise tag and THEN negotiating for a long-term deal seems to be lost on some. Reading comprehension 101. No one has stated anywhere that the franchise tag will not be used. You guys are real big on guessing, but when there is a news article on the subject why read it and understand what was actually stated when you can just guess based on a misleading headline. Isn't that funny since that was the whole point of the franchise tag in the first place? It's even funnier that there were multiple points to the franchise tag.
Erik Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 It's even funnier that there were multiple points to the franchise tag. That's not how I remember it. The whole point of the franchise tag was that they wanted to stop the big name players like Reggie White from just waiting until the end of the contract and go for the biggest pay day and it would give them incentive to sign with their current team. If the NFLPA knew there would be loopholes that would allow teams to tag marginal guys just for the sack of trading them (like we did with Peerless Price) or simply tag a guy to buy one year year of service before they let them go (like we did with Nate Clements) they would have never signed off on it. Obviously it was their own fault because the loopholes were always there but that was not what the franchise tag was originally intended for.
BillsVet Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 The Bills know how much flack they'll take from this fan base by not keeping SJ. They'll bite the bullet and franchise him to help ST sales and team interest for 2012, even if it means having a possibly disgruntled player making 9.4M up for a deal in 2013.
RealityCheck Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 That's not how I remember it. The whole point of the franchise tag was that they wanted to stop the big name players like Reggie White from just waiting until the end of the contract and go for the biggest pay day and it would give them incentive to sign with their current team. If the NFLPA knew there would be loopholes that would allow teams to tag marginal guys just for the sack of trading them (like we did with Peerless Price) or simply tag a guy to buy one year year of service before they let them go (like we did with Nate Clements) they would have never signed off on it. Obviously it was their own fault because the loopholes were always there but that was not what the franchise tag was originally intended for. Again, you are assuming the NFLPA were unaware of the obvious means by which the tag could be used and if they did you are assuming that they would not agree to it in the first place when in fact it guarentees a lot of money to those players that they want to trade and promotes the need for the new team to reach a long term deal with said player. BTW, in the article that is titled "no tag for SJ", all that was revealed is that it has not been discussed during negotiations and that SJ does not expect to be tagged. I fail to see how that means SJ will not be franchised if the Bills chose to do so. When Nix was asked about using the franchise tag he was uncharacteristically hush hush.
thewildrabbit Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Stevie is going to get at least 8-9 million per season on the open market. May as well be the Bills paying it to keep him. But it's a fool's errand to think Stevie is going to have to settle for 5-6 million per season. My take is Stevie and his agent must be looking at what the Buffalo Bills & Baltimore Ravens overpaid for Lee Evans and they thinks he is worth as much, if not more. The problem is that Evans didn't come with the same baggage, all those drops and the stupid hi-jinx that Johnson didn't stop with... even after being warned. He and his agent must think that type of behavior is tolerated by good teams, and that all his dropped passes will go unnoticed by good teams. To put it in perspective, http://www.profootba...rop-percentage/ 47th ranked WR pass drops, 13 dropped in 2010 ""You could levy the same charge against Steve Johnson of Buffalo, who was capable of looking the real deal one game, and then dropping five passes the next. Consistency and concentration are key attributes of guys who finish highly in these rankings, and it would be fair to say both men could do with working on those attributes to take their already impressive games to the next level."" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGJWBWcFD_4 The 18th ranked WR in the NFL, (76, rec, 1004 yards) realistically the guy might only be worth 5-6, and If they aren't willing to franchise tag him at 9 mill....
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