cage Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Troup has done nothing since the day he was drafted and he was outplayed in preseason by an UDFA. You expect to get something from the 41st selection in the draft. Would it be inciteful enough if I list all of the productive players who were chosen after him? You are calling him a safe pick. I'm calling him a ****ty pick. Again,... we're all disappointed in Troupe, got it! The point is that we've (me included) have been criticizing Nix for picking him over Gronkowski, the local boy when TE has been as much of a need for the Bills as DT. Polian's comment put this criticism into some new light, showing that Gronkowski was a very risky pick at the time while Troupe wasn't. Every draft is filled with endless examples of who some team could have had instead of the bust (50% of the time) that they selected. The rationale and wisdom of every draft pick has to be evaluated in the context what the team saw/knew at the time of the draft, not a few years later. Edited February 8, 2012 by cage
DanInUticaTampa Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 Again,... we're all disappointed in Troupe, got it! The point is that we've (me included) have been criticizing Nix for picking him over Gronkowski, the local boy when TE has been as much of a need for the Bills as DT. Polian's comment put this criticism into some new light, showing that Gronkowski was a very risky pick at the time while Troupe wasn't. Every draft is filled with endless examples of who some team could have had instead of the bust (50% of the time) that they selected. I don't know, I think drafting a small school guy is just as risky as drafting a guy recovering from an injury
RyanC883 Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 You make a great point that had been overlooked in much of the discussion on this board related to Gronkowski. The Bills certainly weren't in a position to take a potential injury-risk TE. You also correctly point out the huge advantage the Pats draft stockpiling strategy bears in this. They likely also picked Hernandez in that draft as a hedge in case Gronkowski didn't work out. As both of these picks have blossomed, they've benefited hugely from their strategy. Hate to give the Pats credit, but I wish the Bills Front Office could be as crafty... Assuming this "back problem" issue is true, the main problem with the Bills refusal to draft him is that they instead drafted: (1) Troup, a NT with a LONG history of back problems, and your back is used more at the NT position than perhaps any other position; and (2) reached for the NT when he would have been there in the next round. They are a number of other players they could have drafted. Instead, they royally messed up again. The back-problem could not have been an issue for the Bills FO. Otherwise, why draft a NT with a back problem?!?!? I don't know, I think drafting a small school guy is just as risky as drafting a guy recovering from an injury Exactly, particularly one who is recovering from, oh, A BACK PROBLEM!!!!!
cage Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 Assuming this "back problem" issue is true, the main problem with the Bills refusal to draft him is that they instead drafted: (1) Troup, a NT with a LONG history of back problems, and your back is used more at the NT position than perhaps any other position; and (2) reached for the NT when he would have been there in the next round. They are a number of other players they could have drafted. Instead, they royally messed up again. The back-problem could not have been an issue for the Bills FO. Otherwise, why draft a NT with a back problem?!?!? Exactly, particularly one who is recovering from, oh, A BACK PROBLEM!!!!! I'm NOT defending the Troup pick at all... the new revelation on the controversy about this pick is Bill Polian's comment on Gronkowski yesterday, which is the point of the person who started this thread. It puts some understanding about why Gronkowski didn't make sense for the Bills in the 2nd round at that time Did you read the link from C.Biscuit97? READ THIS, where does this talk about a back problem?!?!? This is not a bad write-up and doesn't indicate that he was a reach in the 2nd round. How on earth can you say he would have been there in the 3rd round? The context needs to go back to the information everyone had at the time of the draft, not on what's happened since...
Billshank Redemption Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 Lets not kid around, gronkowski is a miss match for anyone, he's not like a specialized guy that works in one system. He can block (run and pass), run good routes and catch, oh and the fact that he's enormous. He would be a huge offensive weapon for any team. and also cage, troup was a risky pick I strictly remember everyone saying that he had 1: back problems and 2: was a huge reach.
cage Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 Lets not kid around, gronkowski is a miss match for anyone, he's not like a specialized guy that works in one system. He can block (run and pass), run good routes and catch, oh and the fact that he's enormous. He would be a huge offensive weapon for any team. and also cage, troup was a risky pick I strictly remember everyone saying that he had 1: back problems and 2: was a huge reach. Can someone post a link showing that he had back problems going into the draft?
apuszczalowski Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 Does anyone have anything that talks about or even mentions Troupe having back problems in college? Everything I have found makes no mentions of a history with injuries in college
section122 Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 Lets not kid around, gronkowski is a miss match for anyone, he's not like a specialized guy that works in one system. He can block (run and pass), run good routes and catch, oh and the fact that he's enormous. He would be a huge offensive weapon for any team. and also cage, troup was a risky pick I strictly remember everyone saying that he had 1: back problems and 2: was a huge reach. NOWHERE absolutely NOWHERE is a college or even high school injury report. 2009: Started all 13 games at defensive tackle 2008: Made starts in all 12 games consistently being disruptive at his defensive tackle spot 2007: Made 11 starts and appeared in all 14 games at defensive tackle 2006: Saw action in nine games, including three starts at defensive tackle High School: Three-year letterman at Salem High School for head coach Frank Caputo as well as this little tidbit from the linked article: It's hard for teams to find nose tackles with Troup's size, strength and motor in the middle rounds of the draft, so don't be surprised if he is selected earlier than many project. So can we lay this TBD myth that Troup was injury prone in college or even that he was a reach to rest?
Wayne Cubed Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 NOWHERE absolutely NOWHERE is a college or even high school injury report. 2009: Started all 13 games at defensive tackle 2008: Made starts in all 12 games consistently being disruptive at his defensive tackle spot 2007: Made 11 starts and appeared in all 14 games at defensive tackle 2006: Saw action in nine games, including three starts at defensive tackle High School: Three-year letterman at Salem High School for head coach Frank Caputo as well as this little tidbit from the linked article: It's hard for teams to find nose tackles with Troup's size, strength and motor in the middle rounds of the draft, so don't be surprised if he is selected earlier than many project. So can we lay this TBD myth that Troup was injury prone in college or even that he was a reach to rest? Whoa, Whoa, WHOAAAAA... don't go throwing around truths instead of speculations. Who do you think you are?
cage Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 NOWHERE absolutely NOWHERE is a college or even high school injury report. 2009: Started all 13 games at defensive tackle 2008: Made starts in all 12 games consistently being disruptive at his defensive tackle spot 2007: Made 11 starts and appeared in all 14 games at defensive tackle 2006: Saw action in nine games, including three starts at defensive tackle High School: Three-year letterman at Salem High School for head coach Frank Caputo as well as this little tidbit from the linked article: It's hard for teams to find nose tackles with Troup's size, strength and motor in the middle rounds of the draft, so don't be surprised if he is selected earlier than many project. So can we lay this TBD myth that Troup was injury prone in college or even that he was a reach to rest? THANK YOU!! ... my whole point in this thread has been to back up that the criticism of the Team (Nix) for not taking Growkowski should be viewed differently in light of Polian's statement. And I'll acknowledge that I've wrongly blasted him on TBD for that as well.
Beerball Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 NOWHERE absolutely NOWHERE is a college or even high school injury report. 2009: Started all 13 games at defensive tackle 2008: Made starts in all 12 games consistently being disruptive at his defensive tackle spot 2007: Made 11 starts and appeared in all 14 games at defensive tackle 2006: Saw action in nine games, including three starts at defensive tackle High School: Three-year letterman at Salem High School for head coach Frank Caputo as well as this little tidbit from the linked article: It's hard for teams to find nose tackles with Troup's size, strength and motor in the middle rounds of the draft, so don't be surprised if he is selected earlier than many project. So can we lay this TBD myth that Troup was injury prone in college or even that he was a reach to rest? That sir is the definition of a reach.
bbb Posted February 8, 2012 Author Posted February 8, 2012 Bills don't draft Gronk, they are completely idiots. Bills draft Gronk after missing the year with a back injury and a couple of failed physicals & he gets hurt, they are completely idiots. I love hindsight. You're never wrong! Can you imagine if the Bills drafted Gronk after he hasn't even played a down the season before and opts to not to go the NFL and not back to college (I thought at the time that he knows his back is not going to hold out, and he's grabbing the money while he can) and then he gets hurt? (There's a reason he went from being a top 10 pick to being drafted #42) Why do I have a feeling that the same people who say drafting Gronk was the easy call are the same people who blast the front office for getting Merriman (who came without a price tag - except to Ralph - not a draft pick or a player)?
CBD Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 I thought his back problem went back to college. TBD myth Assuming this "back problem" issue is true, the main problem with the Bills refusal to draft him is that they instead drafted: (1) Troup, a NT with a LONG history of back problems, and your back is used more at the NT position than perhaps any other position; and (2) reached for the NT when he would have been there in the next round. They are a number of other players they could have drafted. Instead, they royally messed up again. The back-problem could not have been an issue for the Bills FO. Otherwise, why draft a NT with a back problem?!?!? Exactly, particularly one who is recovering from, oh, A BACK PROBLEM!!!!! Troup had no injury issues going into the draft. You've written this multiple times, and every time its still untrue.
Captain Hindsight Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 Bills don't draft Gronk, they are completely idiots. Bills draft Gronk after missing the year with a back injury and a couple of failed physicals & he gets hurt, they are completely idiots. I love hindsight. You're never wrong!
section122 Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 That sir is the definition of a reach. If he is selected earlier than projected by draft websites it's a reach? The funny thing about "reach" is that the draft gurus that proclaim this have no idea what teams big boards look like. Remember Kiper and Claussen? Kiper had him rated the 4th overall prospect and he went what 38? How does anyone know whether or not multiple teams had him graded as a second round pick? Because Kiper said so? I love reading the pre draft info as much as the next guy but I also feel that some of it isn't very credible. "I always say to people, 'I'm not picking.' My opinions, to NFL teams, don't matter. Teams don't care what I say," said Kiper, who has three years left on his current ESPN deal. "If I were an owner, and I knew my team was worrying about what Mel Kiper said, I wouldn't be happy." http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2009-04-24-mel-kiper_N.htm Kiper has faced scrutiny in the past about his involvement with agents. In April of 2009 when Kiper had Clausen rated as the top quarterback (ahead of Sam Bradford) and fourth overall, the Washington Post said there were whispers about the draft analyst's friendship with Wichard. Kiper responded by saying he didn't think highly of Wichard clients Taylor Mays and Freeney and that he is friends with several agents. http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2010/10/12/1747443/si-story-implicates-mel-kiper-in-agent-payoff-investigation
apuszczalowski Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 That sir is the definition of a reach. And what is so wrong with that? How is it a reach when the guy is saying he may be grading or viewed at a certain spot, but don't be surprised to see him go sooner cause he may be viewed highly by some teams? Then whats the point in even having a draft if players are supposed to be picked in certain spots because thats the way some writer/blogger has them positioned? All that comment is really saying is to not be surprised if he goes earlier then expected because they believe he has the ability to be better then what most writers/bloggers have him listed as.
Mr. WEO Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 If he failed Indy's physical, the chances are that he failed other physicals too. Just recently the Bills have come under a lot of criticism in this forum for not taking Gronk. Looks like it was a calculated risk that has gone well so far for the Cheating Bastards*** No question he would pass the Bills physical. They passed Merriman--twice--and after each he ended up on IR for the same problem he had before he came here. Troup has done nothing since the day he was drafted and he was outplayed in preseason by an UDFA. You expect to get something from the 41st selection in the draft. Would it be inciteful enough if I list all of the productive players who were chosen after him? You are calling him a safe pick. I'm calling him a ****ty pick. Or might I suggest....bump? http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/140036-does-gronk-make-troup-the-worst-bills-2nd-rounder/page__p__2339388__fromsearch__1#entry2339388
Beerball Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 And what is so wrong with that? How is it a reach when the guy is saying he may be grading or viewed at a certain spot, but don't be surprised to see him go sooner cause he may be viewed highly by some teams? Then whats the point in even having a draft if players are supposed to be picked in certain spots because thats the way some writer/blogger has them positioned? All that comment is really saying is to not be surprised if he goes earlier then expected because they believe he has the ability to be better then what most writers/bloggers have him listed as. So can we lay this TBD myth that Troup was injury prone in college or even that he was a reach to rest? I was replying to this. The way I read the very same quote (from the article, not the poster) is...3-4 dts are hard to come by so some team is going to reach for Troup. But, that's just me. Also, to this point in time, using Hindsight...I'd say he was picked too early.
section122 Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 I was replying to this. The way I read the very same quote (from the article, not the poster) is...3-4 dts are hard to come by so some team is going to reach for Troup. But, that's just me. Also, to this point in time, using Hindsight...I'd say he was picked too early. I think we'd all agree to this. Since they did pick him though I'm hoping for the best!
apuszczalowski Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 I was replying to this. The way I read the very same quote (from the article, not the poster) is...3-4 dts are hard to come by so some team is going to reach for Troup. But, that's just me. Also, to this point in time, using Hindsight...I'd say he was picked too early. I would agree but only because he hasn't been healthy enough to get on the field and show what he can do. If he is going to be considered a bust, it isn't because he has shown he doesn't have the talent to play, its because he hasn't had the ability to show that he can or can't play I don't fault them for making the pick, NT was a big need for a team looking to become a 3-4 team. Gronk actually had real injury concerns (unlike the ones nobodies been able to prove that Troupe had in college) and I'm sure many teams were leary about picking him up. It even appears that the pats didn't have much faith in him and it was more of a luxury pick for them because they drafted Hernandez at the same time. Fans have been all over the Bills FO for taking the "luxury pick" of McGahee after his injury in College, yet they wanted the bills to take a similar chance drafting Gronk just because he is a local kid?
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