EasternOHBillsFan Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/06/world/asia/china-apple-foxconn-worker/index.html?hpt=hp_c1 Although it is not as bad as many manufacturing sites, it is still very reminiscent of a Charlie Chaplin movie, Modern Times: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYbsBcPDVQM As this is the Charles Dickens anniversary, this story only proves that in many parts of the world, times have not changed at all. Yet we are supposed to accept this as normal capitalism at work for the good of the United States. This is far from normal, it is abhorrent to the senses and it is too bad we do not have a Theodore Roosevelt to do something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 So working conditions in China where a lot better in Theodore Roosevelt's day? Or would be a lot better if bad, old capitalism went away? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) So working conditions in China where a lot better in Theodore Roosevelt's day? Or would be a lot better if bad, old capitalism went away? Profits off of the laborers in this fashion IS as it was in Theodore Roosevelt's day. Capitalism should never be about pure profit... you don't cut your head off to cure chronic migraines. Interesting to see if this debate produces any personal insults... maybe just maybe there can be SOME civilized discussion for once... Edited February 6, 2012 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Profits off of the laborers in this fashion IS as it was in Theodore Roosevelt's day. Just as it should be. If they're not being exploited, I'm not getting rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveinElma Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/06/world/asia/china-apple-foxconn-worker/index.html?hpt=hp_c1 Although it is not as bad as many manufacturing sites, it is still very reminiscent of a Charlie Chaplin movie, Modern Times: youtube.com/watch?v=CYbsBcPDVQM As this is the Charles Dickens anniversary, this story only proves that in many parts of the world, times have not changed at all. Yet we are supposed to accept this as normal capitalism at work for the good of the United States. This is far from normal, it is abhorrent to the senses and it is too bad we do not have a Theodore Roosevelt to do something about it. Let me get out the worlds tiniest violin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Let me get out the worlds tiniest violin. You call that thing a violin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Let me get out the worlds tiniest violin. America has grown soft and does not appreciate what working conditions were like before there were labor laws, how horrible it was for people to just live. Many people speak of deregulation as if it would solve our problems, but as the records of corporations have proven, the more you deregulate the more they will take advantage at the expense of working people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 America has grown soft and does not appreciate what working conditions were like before there were labor laws, how horrible it was for people to just live. Many people speak of deregulation as if it would solve our problems, but as the records of corporations have proven, the more you deregulate the more they will take advantage at the expense of working people. That's what working people are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 That's what working people are for. Well then, by your logic, we should make all of our products in China and have a high rate of unemployment here, for it is the best way to make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Well then, by your logic, we should make all of our products in China and have a high rate of unemployment here, for it is the best way to make money. Not at all. We should exploit American workers more, as they are already far less exploited than Chinese laborers and thus can be squeezed that much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Not at all. We should exploit American workers more, as they are already far less exploited than Chinese laborers and thus can be squeezed that much more. So are you agreeing with these actions? 1. Get rid of the minimum wage 2. Make no provision for overtime pay 3. Make no provision for workers compensation 4. Make no provision for environmental regulation of any kind 5. Make no provision for a maximum hours per day worked 6. Repeal all child labor laws 7. Make no provision for breaks Edited February 6, 2012 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 So are you agreeing with these actions? 1. Get rid of the minimum wage 2. Make no provision for overtime pay 3. Make no provision for workers compensation 4. Make no provision for environmental regulation of any kind 5. Make no provision for a maximum hours per day worked 6. Repeal all child labor laws 7. Make no provision for breaks You forgot 8. no more !@#$ing whining, get back to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 You forgot 8. no more !@#$ing whining, get back to work. So, what is your position on each of those 7? If we want to be like China, which ones do we implement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 You forgot 8. no more !@#$ing whining, get back to work. My favorite line while working at a Hilton Hotel Cook: Chef, can I have a break Chef: I gave you a break when I hired you. Get back to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Tying this to Apple is ridiculous. The company with issues is Foxconn, who is a huge manufacturing partner for most major computer hardware companies. We're talking Apple, ASUS, Cisco, Dell, HP, Intel, IBM, Lenovo, Logitech, Microsoft, MSI, Motorola, Netgear, Nintendo, Nokia, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony Ericsson, Toshiba, and Vizio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Tying this to Apple is ridiculous. The company with issues is Foxconn, who is a huge manufacturing partner for most major computer hardware companies. We're talking Apple, ASUS, Cisco, Dell, HP, Intel, IBM, Lenovo, Logitech, Microsoft, MSI, Motorola, Netgear, Nintendo, Nokia, Panasonic, Philips, Samsung, Sharp, Sony Ericsson, Toshiba, and Vizio. Now that we have established it is more than just Apple, what about the points I mentioned? Just because it is rampant industry-wide does not make it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 So, what is your position on each of those 7? If we want to be like China, which ones do we implement? Implement all of them. If it makes me more money, I'm all for them. I thought my position was pretty clear. That you missed it...is why you're an exploited working. Now stop your !@#$ing whining and get back to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 America has grown soft and does not appreciate what working conditions were like before there were labor laws, how horrible it was for people to just live. Many people speak of deregulation as if it would solve our problems, but as the records of corporations have proven, the more you deregulate the more they will take advantage at the expense of working people. Regulation isn't always good. How about the CRA, that is a regulation? Then again, regulation does serve a purpose. When the republicans on the Banking and Finance committee and Bush wanted to regulate Fannie & Freddie more, they were excorciated by several democrats. So, you can't simply say that regulation is good or bad. Regulations have to be judged on their own merits with a real hard look at the possible unintended consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Now that we have established it is more than just Apple, what about the points I mentioned? Just because it is rampant industry-wide does not make it right. What makes these practices wrong? Sure, those conditions sound crappy to you and I, but how does Foxconn stack up against every other manufacturer in China making products that you and I don't give a s#$% about? 1.2 million people willfully work there for a reason, and despite the suicides, dorm living and inhumance conditions you describe, Foxconn is still a popular place to work. Please explain how the Chinese labor force will be better off by removing their competitive advantage. Edited February 6, 2012 by Jauronimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 So are you agreeing with these actions? 1. Get rid of the minimum wage 2. Make no provision for overtime pay 3. Make no provision for workers compensation 4. Make no provision for environmental regulation of any kind 5. Make no provision for a maximum hours per day worked 6. Repeal all child labor laws 7. Make no provision for breaks Typical leftist thinking: it's all or nothing. If someone wants to discuss value for minimum wage, it means they want to get rid of it. If someone wants to discuss value for overtime pay or workers compen, it means they want to get rid of all of it. If you want people to have a conversation where no one is insulted, stop begging for insults. It's not all or nothing, but I can assure you this much: even if you DID gut things like minimum wage or no provisions for breaks, that doesn't mean they go away. It only means they go away for people who are crappy workers. Smart employers will compete for smart and hardworking employees, and they do this by offering not just better-than-average pay, but also better-than-average benefits which, in many cases, don't contribute heavily to overhead but still provide value over their competition. Some may offer a 401K, or a low-cost cafeteria, or day care, or financial incentives for exceeding goals. The liberals problem with this is that everyone wouldn't get their fair share, and only regulation will ensure that everyone get their fair share, even if they don't deserve it. Funny. All I heard during the health care debate was "competition" will bring the costs down. But when it comes to employment...oh, no! If we leave it to competition, all employers will reduce pay to a dollar an hour, gut benefits, remove breaks and sit in a big tower smoking cigars while laughing at all the little people. As I've said before, it's amazing to me that Republicans are so ignorant and undisciplined that every 20 or 30 years they manage to screw up so badly as to make Americans think the liberal way of governing somehow makes any sense at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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