State funding for RWS Stadium improvements?

[mrags]

Honestly, because it had been decaying for decades, Buffalo has maintained pretty well during the last 5 years.

 

honestly, I jsut hate this topic and it's pretty pointless IMO unless there is somethign we can do as fans. All the talk of re-locating teams I have heard recently never even mentions Buffalo. Thinking about the Bills moving is like thinking about your wife or girlfriend cheating on you. If it hasn't happened, why worry about it? You'll drive yourself crazy.

Best post of this thread

[PromoTheRobot]

!@#$ unions you are a bunch a whiny little girls

We can all point to stories of unions out of control. I know of one instance where a mailroom employee makes 6 figures because he has been at his job forever. (Of course, who was the management idiot who agreed to a deal that let that happen?)

 

But that said, if you think your employers are going to make sure you always get a fair shake then good luck. You need balance in all things. When one side holds all the cards, the other side is meat.

 

PTR

Edited January 27, 2012 by PromoTheRobot

[Buftex]

!@#$ unions you are a bunch a whiny little girls

 

Spoken like a true "rookie"

[Mr. WEO]

We can all point to stories of unions out of control. I know of one instance where a mailroom employee makes 6 figures because he has been at his job forever. (Of course, who was the management idiot who agreed to a deal that let that happen?)

 

But that said, if you think your employers are going to make sure you always get a fair shake then good luck. You need balance in all things. When one side holds all the cards, the other side is meat taxpayers.

 

PTR

 

Fixed.

[PromoTheRobot]

Fixed.

What does paying taxes have to do with labor/business relations, other than the likelihood that one side is paying a larger share of their income in taxes?

 

PTR

[K-9]

What does paying taxes have to do with labor/business relations, other than the likelihood that one side is paying a larger share of their income in taxes?

 

PTR

 

Nothing more than low salaries and poor benefits have to do with good police forces, firemen, correctional officers, teachers, and civil servants of ANY kind.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Mickey]

He is a patronizing politician and will say whatever people want to hear. The reality is upstate ny is the red head step child to state politics. We don't matter to them and they don't care about us. It's all about downstate and long island.

 

 

Stop by the politics side of the board sometime

 

Actually, the tax collection and distribution records show consistently that upstate lives off of the $$$ generated downstate. I know that goes against the popular upstate myth that NYC drains tax revenues from

upstate but facts are facts. So much for the "reality that upstate ny" is treated unfairly.

 

Upstate Sponges off of Downstate

 

 

A teaser:

 

...

New York City contributed more than 45 percent of the state’s taxes and other revenues: $32.8 billion in 2010. But it only received 40 percent of the money the state passed out. Upstate counties (not including the Capital Region) contributed 24 percent of the state’s taxes and revenues but received 35 percent of the state money that was doled out in 2010, according to the study.

The study points out that state government can equalize wealth in a way that local governments can’t.

“The gains for Upstate in this balance of payments are strikingly big,” said Bob Ward, one of the researchers and the deputy director of the Rockefeller Institute. If Upstate took in as much as it paid out, it could lose as much as much as $9 billion.

 

 

[RyanC883]

Upstate needs to leave the State. Cuomo only has so much $$ to play with for stadiums, and it will go into NYC before it will ever get to Buffalo. Which means it will never get to Buffalo. Join PA.

 

Actually, the tax collection and distribution records show consistently that upstate lives off of the $$$ generated downstate. I know that goes against the popular upstate myth that NYC drains tax revenues from

upstate but facts are facts. So much for the "reality that upstate ny" is treated unfairly.

 

Upstate Sponges off of Downstate

 

 

A teaser:

 

...

New York City contributed more than 45 percent of the state’s taxes and other revenues: $32.8 billion in 2010. But it only received 40 percent of the money the state passed out. Upstate counties (not including the Capital Region) contributed 24 percent of the state’s taxes and revenues but received 35 percent of the state money that was doled out in 2010, according to the study.

The study points out that state government can equalize wealth in a way that local governments can’t.

“The gains for Upstate in this balance of payments are strikingly big,” said Bob Ward, one of the researchers and the deputy director of the Rockefeller Institute. If Upstate took in as much as it paid out, it could lose as much as much as $9 billion.

 

Did Upstate ask for that money, or was it given in a patronizing fashion by the NYC people in Albany? If NYS is doing such a great job for Upstate, why does Buffalo have the 3rd highest poverty rate in the US. Why is manufacturing leaving? Why haven't the "rust belt" cities of Upstate such as Buffalo and Syracuse revitalized in the way cities like Pittsburgh have? Answer: the $$ Albany throws at Upstate is for worthless projects that Upstate did not ask for. Upstate would be better off w/o NYC. It could be its own state, or join Pa.

[Mickey]

Upstate needs to leave the State. Cuomo only has so much $ to play with for stadiums, and it will go into NYC before it will ever get to Buffalo. Which means it will never get to Buffalo. Join PA.

 

 

 

Did Upstate ask for that money, or was it given in a patronizing fashion by the NYC people in Albany? If NYS is doing such a great job for Upstate, why does Buffalo have the 3rd highest poverty rate in the US. Why is manufacturing leaving? Why haven't the "rust belt" cities of Upstate such as Buffalo and Syracuse revitalized in the way cities like Pittsburgh have? Answer: the $ Albany throws at Upstate is for worthless projects that Upstate did not ask for. Upstate would be better off w/o NYC. It could be its own state, or join Pa.

 

Its pretty clear that you hate NYC and no amount of facts is going to change that. If you have some sort of proof of a specific project "Albany" has forced on to Buffalo that was worthless and of better, alternative projects that elected officials in western NY have long sought but been denied by elected officials from NYC, I would love to hear it. I would also like to hear what you mean specifically when you complain about $ being given "in a patronizing fashion"? Did some legislator sign a bill that shifted wealth from downstate to upstate with a smirk on his face?? And money is money, regardless of the attitude of the person from whom it was taken. And it was taken, NYC isn't on some generosity kick. The political system in the state shifts power from densely populated areas to areas less populated through over representation in the same way that Rhode Island has as many votes in the US Senate as California despite the drastic difference in their respective populations.

[TH3]

Well see how wveryone feels when the state releases between 20-30k murderers, rapists and child molesters back into the public within the next few years. Ya, Cuomo wants to do that.

.

Im not responding to anymore messages regarding this topic just stating facts, taking my ball and going home. If you don't like state employees that's fine for what it is, but show some respect for people who have to deal with the scumbags of society on a daily basis when no one else wants to do it and when the state government itself doesn't back it's own employees when something bad happens.

 

Mrags - you opened the door by calling Cuomo a "POS" - as far as my statements - I don't say any actual worker for the state is anything but good - but the bottom line is that the rest of the general taxpaying public has the same "POS" impressions about the state unions - why? Not because they are bad people - but because of the excesses involved over the last decades. Our school district has 4 teachers that are so bad they are relegated to observing study hall - they are totally shielded by the union...the City of Buffalo - which spends $25,0000 per pupil per year (4x national avaerage, 2.2x NYS avaerage) pays all cosmetic elective surgery at a cost of 10's of millions. When asked to give this up or lay off 200 teachers - guess what the union chose? The list goes on and on. I am not talking about the good people who do good work for the State - I am referring to the obvious excesses that have developed with the Unions - not to mention Wicks, Triboro.....So when you bust out the POS for the Governor please know that impressions cut both ways. AFA Cuomo - NYS will now begin a long painful process of resetting an appropriate level spending leveraged by the 2 percent tax cap. First start the cuts and when the cuts become too painful the state (taxpayers) and the unions will finally begin to clean and modernize how work/retirement/healthcare is compensated. My hope is that this process includes the union excesses that overshadow the good work done by many state employees. AFA murderers getting health care and lawsuits....well that should stop same as every other excess that costs taxpayers money but offers no benefit.

Edited January 28, 2012 by baskin

[dwight in philly]

Its pretty clear that you hate NYC and no amount of facts is going to change that. If you have some sort of proof of a specific project "Albany" has forced on to Buffalo that was worthless and of better, alternative projects that elected officials in western NY have long sought but been denied by elected officials from NYC, I would love to hear it. I would also like to hear what you mean specifically when you complain about $ being given "in a patronizing fashion"? Did some legislator sign a bill that shifted wealth from downstate to upstate with a smirk on his face?? And money is money, regardless of the attitude of the person from whom it was taken. And it was taken, NYC isn't on some generosity kick. The political system in the state shifts power from densely populated areas to areas less populated through over representation in the same way that Rhode Island has as many votes in the US Senate as California despite the drastic difference in their respective populations.

curious? how do you feel about ny state giving millions to subsidize the bulding of yankee stadium and citi-field for the mets? i wonder how many of you "govt should not subsidize sports stadiums" complained when that happened?

[DFITZ1]

Cuomo will see the state like all governors have past and present, what is best for NYC is what matters rpstate is an afterthought.

 

 

That's almost the whole story. It is what's best for NYC AND what's best for the Senate Majority Leader (the Assembly Speaker, Sheldon Silver is from Manhattan and takes care of NYC, as evidenced that he killed the UB 2020 program which led to the UB president to quit in disgust). The only upstate region to get economic favor is the one which falls into the Seanate Majority Leaders district (so long as he/she is from upstate). When Joe Bruno was SML, the Capital Region, particularly Saratoga and Renselaer counties got the lion's share of economic aid; example - 1.4 billion dollars to help GlobalFoundries open a chip manufacturing plant in Malta NY. You didn't see this kind of investment anywhere else in upstate because Bruno got to choose where the money went first. An example from long ago, I-88 from Schenectady to Binghamton was built at the hest of SML Warren Anderson. It has the distinction as the LEAST travelled interstate in the country. If the SML's district fell in OP, the state would not only fund improvements, they would probably add a retractable roof, and rename the stadium in the SML's honor (yes, there is a very nice Joe Bruno Stadium in Troy, used for Class A baseball, that you paid for).

 

Another aspect about upstate NY economic growth - no economic growth happens without a deal with the legislature (or local officials). Some might disagree, but from what I see, few companies want to relocate here or stay here just on their own, too many times it is more cost effective to move out of state unless a deal is made.

[fansince88]

Maybe you should not judge. I DO work for the state. I'm employed for the safety and security of everyone that resides in NY. A contract is a contract. When it's complete and there is time for a new one then it is up to my union and the state to make it right. Other Security unions/workers recieved thier increases, WE HAVE NOT. We cannot strike as it's in our previous contract that we, as security are not permitted to do. We have waited patiently for years for a new contract, however we must come to work everyday and deal with people that most people would not enjoy dealing with. I'll leave it at that.

 

 

So I guess you are a NYS Corrections Officer?

I am a conservative so that needs to be known up front. I have been given a black eye by unions in the past so have no love for them at all. I will say that if wasn't for the union most of you guys wouldn't keep your jobs. I have 4 brothers that are nys corrections officers and a father that retired about three years ago. He was president of his local for 12 years and had to fight for people that didn't diserve it. He also was on the negotiation team with afl-cio when they were your union. He started his employment in the 80,s making about 17000 a year so don't complain about what you have. If this is your employment I personaly don't want to hear you complain. If you started at 21 you can be done at 47 years with half your last 5 years average. So at 42 you can bid an overtime heavy job like transportation like my dad did and pull in about 50,000 a year retirement. Or you could quit today and find somethin else. Just saying.

Edited January 28, 2012 by fansince88

[T master]

For some reason, I do not trust Cuomo will do the right thing in terms of funding for the improvements to RW stadium. I did not like his recent statements, and I do not think he really understands on an emotional level the importance of the Bills to Western New York. Thoughts?

 

He's a democrat come on !! look what they've done to the state they've been in charge forever --- you can't trust any thing any of them say Dem or Rep it doesn't matter !!!

[Ted William's frozen head]

unions are a big reason why businesses can not grow in NYS.

You've been listening to the right wing (cough!,cough!) 'fantasies' about public employees, teacher wages,and benefits. For example the average NYS pension hovers somewhere around 20K a year. Big bucks, eh?? Public employees are not getting rich on their salaries, and struggle just like everybody else.

There are those people (usually lawyers,and political hacks) who have legally swindled the pension fund, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

Union enrollment as a percentage of the workforce nationwide is heading toward single digits. Corporate America, is simply telling you what they want you to believe. Get your news from multiple sources instead of those particular networks that have an axe to grind against people who work for a living......

[DFITZ1]

He's a democrat come on !! look what they've done to the state they've been in charge forever --- you can't trust any thing any of them say Dem or Rep it doesn't matter !!!

 

It's not liberal(dem) or conservative(rep) that's the problem, it's corruption and patronage. which is part of both sides.

[bbb]

The general vibe on TSW, if you are a government employee, or a member of a union, you are blight on society...you have never done an honest days work in your life, you are responsibe for the current economic state of the country, etc etc etc...

 

Really? Maybe I should visit PPP once in awhile!

 

Actually, it sounds like Mrrags has a legit state job. But, when I worked summers for the state in college - the full time year round workers were a joke. They were very funny guys and I really liked them........But, they'd rather sit and watch the grass grow until the next break instead of getting the mower out and mow it like we were supposed to do. It made the day go on forever!

Edited January 28, 2012 by bbb

[jahnyc]

I did not intend for the original post to become a post about politics.

 

I was surprised by the tone of Cuomo's statements about the Bills. Why did he feel the need to make these statements at this stage, before there is any sense of the cost or scope of stadium improvements? I think Cuomo has aspirations for national office, and he seems all about how to position himself for that future. I do not feel the Bills fit into this calculus. Conversely, I have always found Schumer to be in tune with those who want the Bills to stay in Buffalo. I think he gets it, even if much or all of his motivation is grounded in gaining political support.

 

It seems to me that the Bills and RW stadium have been a bargain for New York State over the last 40 years, particularly compared to other franchises that have received state and local funding for new stadiums during that period.

 

The biggest potential wildcard in all of this is if the engineering study shows that the RW stadium is not structurally sound.

[OvrOfficiousJerk]

The biggest potential wildcard in all of this is if the engineering study shows that the RW stadium is not structurally sound.

 

You're right in that it's a potential problem, but I doubt that would happen. The former VP for stadium operations or some such (Joe Frandina), went on the record in the Buffalo News saying that won't be a problem in the forseeable future: as long as it recieves the necessary maintenance, he said, "it'll outlast you and me."

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

No offense man, but I think you are making statements based on false assumptions. I know many teachers, and aspiring teachers, and none of them make anywhere near 70-80k a year, nor will they ever. I don't know where you get those numbers from. Many take jobs starting at less than 30k a year. And don't forget, these people need a masters degree and have to pay off those student loans. No one becomes a teacher for the money...

Facts - - here's the 2008 New York City salary schedule from a teacher union website:

 

http://www.uft.org/our-rights/salary-schedules/teachers

 

To understand the New York City teacher 2008 salary chart in the above link, you also need the following explanation of salary "steps:"

 

http://www.uft.org/our-rights/salary-steps

 

A salary step is an incremental increase in salary based on previous qualifying professional experience. You’ll earn more money the longer you stay in the system.

 

For the first eight years in the teacher salary schedule, these are called “steps.” If you teach without interruption, you will move two steps (e.g. 1A and 1B) for each year you work, increasing your earnings up to Step 8B.

 

All appointed teachers and other UFT pedagogical titles will automatically receive pay increases based on salary steps on your anniversary date and on March 1.

 

Beyond Step 8B, teachers will receive “longevity” increments — also called “longevities” — after you have taught in New York City for five, 10, 13, 15, 18, 20 and 22 years.

 

I don't know how things have changed since 2008, but in 2008 a NYC teacher with 22 years experience and a Master's degree made an annual salary of $94,154. With an additional 30 credit hours beyond the Master's degree, the salary schedule for 22 years experience topped out at just over $100k.

Edited January 29, 2012 by ICanSleepWhenI'mDead