DFITZ1 Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 i hear ya! i have posted on this subject many times. again, giving millionaire NFL owners tax dollars for stadium upgrades or construction seems totally insane on the surface. however, all those loudmouths saying that "we need roads, schools, bridges, etc" ,THIS JUST IN:that doesnt happen! if one thinks that 100 million tax dollars that wilson may want for stadium upgrades should be spent on the aforementioned , it wont. the politicians are experts at pi$$ing away tax dollars and i say give me something tangible, i e: stadium upgrades to keep the bills in buffalo. it is a quality of life issue and an obvious positive economic assest. Your point is right on. This would be the 3rd upgrade at Erie County/Rich/Bills/Ralph Wilson Stadium. And the Peace Bridge got rebuilt or twin span done how many...?
agardin Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 The Bills have another advantage in that there are approx. 25K Canadians crossing the border and spending foreign capital. The circular flow of money argument would dictate that money spent by locals would find another home and the net impact of the Bills staying or leaving would be negligible. Instead of tickets, jerseys or parking fans would go to the movies, buy other clothes and spend their disposable income another way. Canadians spending money in WNY is all net gain. Small point but important.
justnzane Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Yes. Jobs True, as the Bills generate income for you Hammer 8-)
RTW2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 The economic impact of sports teams has been well-documented. The overall conclusion is that sports teams do not provide significant impact to local economies in relation to the public monies spent on them. one study another yet another one more As I said before, sports teams provide civic pride and enhance the quality of life in their communities. Improve, bolster, enhance the economy? Not really.
Hammered a Lot Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 True, as the Bills generate income for you Hammer 8-) I think this would be under game day employee.
Mr. WEO Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 It's in the state's best interest to spend some money to retain the Bills. The team has no debt and is financially solid. Yes, it doesn't generate the revenue of larger markets, but when you look at the Bills books, they are a solid investment of taxpayer money. Should the Bills leave, the state will spend twice that amount trying to spur something to be done with the now empty stadium, the land around it, and the financial impact on the municipalities in its immediate vicinity. An empty NFL stadium is akin to a closed military base and figuring out what to do with it. These posts can only make some sense if you believe the Bills are leaving--and therefore 100 million for a stadium renovation is a bribe to keep them in Buffalo. Like a bribe, it can never be paid back because all it would do is continue the same revenue coming in as there is now. Yet the obvious point not being acknowledged by the "just give it to them" crowd is that no one in the Bills organization is even hinting at moving. In fact, we have a thread here that goes on and on about how Pegula is going to be the next owner. If the this is true, why on earth would the state or county simply cough up 100 million to "keep" a team that is not leaving? And are all the posters who want the state to give the money to the Bills NYS taxpayers?
dwight in philly Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 These posts can only make some sense if you believe the Bills are leaving--and therefore 100 million for a stadium renovation is a bribe to keep them in Buffalo. Like a bribe, it can never be paid back because all it would do is continue the same revenue coming in as there is now. Yet the obvious point not being acknowledged by the "just give it to them" crowd is that no one in the Bills organization is even hinting at moving. In fact, we have a thread here that goes on and on about how Pegula is going to be the next owner. If the this is true, why on earth would the state or county simply cough up 100 million to "keep" a team that is not leaving? And are all the posters who want the state to give the money to the Bills NYS taxpayers? i am not a taxpayer of ny state, was for over 35 years, what is your point? .. ok, then forget the upgrade, take your chances, see if they stay without them..
Mr. WEO Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 i am not a taxpayer of ny state, was for over 35 years, what is your point? .. ok, then forget the upgrade, take your chances, see if they stay without them.. The point? Should be obvious--always easier to spend other people's money. I'm assuming you don't think there is a local buyer, or that Ralph has some sort of succession planned. But let's say you're right and there is no Pegula-what makes you think buying a nice new dress for the Ralph is going to make the next owner hell-bent on moving the team keep the Bills in Buffalo?
buckeyemike Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 It's in the state's best interest to spend some money to retain the Bills. The team has no debt and is financially solid. Yes, it doesn't generate the revenue of larger markets, but when you look at the Bills books, they are a solid investment of taxpayer money. Should the Bills leave, the state will spend twice that amount trying to spur something to be done with the now empty stadium, the land around it, and the financial impact on the municipalities in its immediate vicinity. An empty NFL stadium is akin to a closed military base and figuring out what to do with it. See: Browns, Cleveland circa 1995. Cleveland built a new stadium that gets used about 11 times a year. It's a white elephant (with orange seats) on the city's lakefront. Since Cleveland's my hometown and I can honestly say that I've experienced losing a football team, I say spend the money now and renovate the Ralph. Lock the Bills in to at least a 15 year lease renewal, and more if possible. Because once you lose the team, it's hell getting it back. At this point, with the annual 11 and 12 loss seasons (as well as the stadium's drain on the city's finances), I'm almost convinced Cleveland would be better off if the town hadn't sought a replacement team.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 See: Browns, Cleveland circa 1995. Cleveland built a new stadium that gets used about 11 times a year. It's a white elephant (with orange seats) on the city's lakefront. Since Cleveland's my hometown and I can honestly say that I've experienced losing a football team, I say spend the money now and renovate the Ralph. Lock the Bills in to at least a 15 year lease renewal, and more if possible. Because once you lose the team, it's hell getting it back. At this point, with the annual 11 and 12 loss seasons (as well as the stadium's drain on the city's finances), I'm almost convinced Cleveland would be better off if the town hadn't sought a replacement team. To re-state one of your points, if Buffalo loses the Bills, NFL football will never return to Buffalo. And the loss of the Bills would NOT be a good thing for the community IMO, however anyone else would want to spin it.
Tcali Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 To re-state one of your points, if Buffalo loses the Bills, NFL football will never return to Buffalo. And the loss of the Bills would NOT be a good thing for the community IMO, however anyone else would want to spin it. the worst thing would be for the bills to go somewhere else---and become a winning well run franchise. would be better if the team just disappeared. really a shame that ralph is so clueless about the game of football. i doubt jacobs or pegula will let the bills leave---but if they do leave thats it...no more NFL in Buffalo.
dwight in philly Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) The point? Should be obvious--always easier to spend other people's money. I'm assuming you don't think there is a local buyer, or that Ralph has some sort of succession planned. But let's say you're right and there is no Pegula-what makes you think buying a nice new dress for the Ralph is going to make the next owner hell-bent on moving the team keep the Bills in Buffalo? ok, you win, do not upgrade the stadium, let it deteriorate , if the bills stay, fine, either way you will have those "tax dollars" not used for upgrades to build more roads, maybe a bridge, re-furbish a school, or, maybe create a job for another politician, or his kid.forget about maintaining a taxpayer owned structure. Edited January 22, 2012 by dwight in philly
buckeyemike Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 To re-state one of your points, if Buffalo loses the Bills, NFL football will never return to Buffalo. And the loss of the Bills would NOT be a good thing for the community IMO, however anyone else would want to spin it. Agree on both points, unfortunately. Buffalo needs the Bills, perhaps more than any other NFL city.
jahnyc Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 For some reason, I do not trust Cuomo will do the right thing in terms of funding for the improvements to RW stadium. I did not like his recent statements, and I do not think he really understands on an emotional level the importance of the Bills to Western New York. Thoughts?
zazie Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Cuomo will see the state like all governors have past and present, what is best for NYC is what matters rpstate is an afterthought. RW stadium has no chance of state funding, we may as well forget that right now. I am not sure it should anyway, I have always questioned the good of the few vs. the good of the many in publically funding projects that will benefit a few directly (workers at the Ralph) some more indirectly (increased sales at stores in Orchard Park etc.), and most not at all (everyone who does not go to games or have some connection to the team or Orchard Park). The main beneficiary of course,would be the man whom the stadium is named after.... one guy and his family. Eff him......
mrags Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 My personal opinion about Cuomo is he's a POS. However I work for the state and my union is being fought tooth and nail over much deserved pay increases since the other state agencies/unions in my line of work recieved what we've been fighting for, for the last few years. When your 2 years into contract negotiations it gets rediculous. By the time they ever agree on anything well be due another contract. I know it's the way it goes as a state employee but after doing what he did to CSEA it really lowers my expectations and beliefs in Cuomo as Governor.
zazie Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 My personal opinion about Cuomo is he's a POS. However I work for the state and my union is being fought tooth and nail over much deserved pay increases since the other state agencies/unions in my line of work recieved what we've been fighting for, for the last few years. When your 2 years into contract negotiations it gets rediculous. By the time they ever agree on anything well be due another contract. I know it's the way it goes as a state employee but after doing what he did to CSEA it really lowers my expectations and beliefs in Cuomo as Governor. Do you actually do some work for the state, or mostly sit around with your coworkers and B word about the rotten contract a broke state is offering? You should move to California, ther you would fit right in working at the DMV. Regarding the topic at hand, I think Cuomo is pretty much in a no win and no lose situation. If he spends some taxpayer money on RW stadium, that is defensible. If he does not, that is also defensible. Paying you more money to B word about tenured job with your erstwhile employer... not so much defensible.
benderbender Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Yeah! You have no right to complain about your job. Or the government. And how it relates to your favorite football team. What do you think this is? A forum?
mrags Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Do you actually do some work for the state, or mostly sit around with your coworkers and B word about the rotten contract a broke state is offering? You should move to California, ther you would fit right in working at the DMV. Regarding the topic at hand, I think Cuomo is pretty much in a no win and no lose situation. If he spends some taxpayer money on RW stadium, that is defensible. If he does not, that is also defensible. Paying you more money to B word about tenured job with your erstwhile employer... not so much defensible. Maybe you should not judge. I DO work for the state. I'm employed for the safety and security of everyone that resides in NY. A contract is a contract. When it's complete and there is time for a new one then it is up to my union and the state to make it right. Other Security unions/workers recieved thier increases, WE HAVE NOT. We cannot strike as it's in our previous contract that we, as security are not permitted to do. We have waited patiently for years for a new contract, however we must come to work everyday and deal with people that most people would not enjoy dealing with. I'll leave it at that. What do you do? Yeah! You have no right to complain about your job. Or the government. And how it relates to your favorite football team. What do you think this is? A forum? FWIW I was not complaining about my job. Not saying you thought I was.
zazie Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Maybe you should not judge. I DO work for the state. I'm employed for the safety and security of everyone that resides in NY. A contract is a contract. When it's complete and there is time for a new one then it is up to my union and the state to make it right. Other Security unions/workers recieved thier increases, WE HAVE NOT. We cannot strike as it's in our previous contract that we, as security are not permitted to do. We have waited patiently for years for a new contract, however we must come to work everyday and deal with people that most people would not enjoy dealing with. I'll leave it at that. What do you do? FWIW I was not complaining about my job. Not saying you thought I was. If you are a prison guard please take it out on the inmates, knock some heads! I do not work for the state and I do not B word about my job either, knowing I am free (like you) to seek emplyment anywhere. In any event lets get back on the subject before some moderator arbitrarily bans us both.
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