major Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 If you get a chance, read the editorial in the Times Union.com regarding the Bills, economic investment in Buffalo and the Bills. I'm curious to hear your take on it. Fire away.
Dr. Fong Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I thought the editorial didn't have much merit. You can pick a lot of items out of a state budget and claim that there are higher priorities. That doesn't take into consideration the ways that the states and it's residents may benefit in the long run.
major Posted January 20, 2012 Author Posted January 20, 2012 Do you think the state, in particular the residents of Buffalo, will benefit if the Bills stay put? If so, how?
Ray Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 It is fine as long as they are consistent and say the same thing that the state should take back the money they gave to the Yankees and money and tax abatements they give to any other entertainment venue/stadium/arts group etc... Something tells me that's not the case. You can actually make an argument that the investment does reap NYS rewards. What companies in Buffalo have a payroll of $130M per year and bring in revenue in the hundreds of millions of dollars? Very few. When NY is collecting about $10M per year in state income taxes alone from the Bills and you are not even taking into account what is projected to be about another 10M a year in sales taxes, hotel taxes etc....then it is a decent investment. As long as that money from the state comes with the stipulation the Bills stay and sign a lease for 15 years I think it is okay.
Maddog69 Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Do you think the state, in particular the residents of Buffalo, will benefit if the Bills stay put? If so, how? that has been covered on this board about 1000 times. Do some research. The money spent on the Bills will provide more than sufficient ROI
Ray Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 that has been covered on this board about 1000 times. Do some research. The money spent on the Bills will provide more than sufficient ROI Exactly.....the state spending 100M to have about 200M in return is a darn good ROI. How do think OP and Hamburg would feel if the biggest employer their moved out of town and hundreds of people moved....especially homes and condos and property tax revenue those ares receive from players, employees, coaches, etc...?
T master Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I have to answer this with a 2 part answer . The first being - It's about friggin time some money came across the state to help out WNY instead of it all being used to pump up the cesspool that is NYC . Â I wish that years ago before i left the state that the talk that was going around about the rest of the state severing ties with NYC & letting it become it's own state in it's self would have happened !! We in WNY would have been much better off for not trying to constantly bail out the Banks & the Wall street crooks !! Â You sure didn't here any bitchin about how much money the state sunk into Yankee stadium now did they ? What was that a Billion or so ?? No because it directly went to the city & their economy & screw the rest of the state !!! What the Bills or should i say Erie county needs is like 1 tenth that but listen to the people B word now because the money is going to Buffalo & not the NYC dump !!!!!. Â Now with the second part . I understand why these cities spend the money that they do on stadiums to keep the teams which generate millions of dollars in revenue a year for the city in the city , but how much is the lease payment a year that the Bills have to pay to use the facility ? Â Who ever should have thought of what could happen down the line a long time ago if the economy went bad instead of giving this Free agency thing a whirl !!! Â The NFL is a multi Billion dollar a year business & like most other sports teams in America the players make (some per game) millions to play . I remember during baseball season a few years ago Roger Clemens made $500000 a pitch or something ridiculous amount like that in his last play off series . I'm sorry but that's just plain ing STUPID !! Â What ever happened to the businesses building it's buildings & paying for the up keep out of there profit ? Â These cities & teams as far as pay rolls are in the shape that they are in b/c they put them selves there & who do they always look to bail them out ?? Either the fans or We The People !! :censored:
silvermike Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Given the extraordinary ability of teams to play off local and state governments for cash handouts, I think it's really an ideal place for federal legislation. I couldn't tell you what the shape of it should be, but it would do a lot of good and end these blackmail situations.
zonabb Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I didnt read it but I can guess it's saying we shouldn't support teams with money. That's all well and good, I'm in favor of shutting the tap of taxpayer money right off and keep it off. The reality is, it's not working. This theory that taxc breaks and incentives create jobs and thereby economic benefit for all has yet to be proven in WNY. Maybe its working elsewhere, but it's not here. The process is laughable and need to be re-examined. Â All that being said, the current system is in place. The NFL and the Bills now and in the future will get increased scrutiny due to their own success as a league and the perceived lack of need for such help. All true. In reality, the Bills and NFL don't need help taxpayer help. Let the NFL lend the Bills money at a low interest rate and fix the stadium. Ahhh, but the issue is, Erie County owns the stadium, not the Bills. So their is a long-standing public-private partnership here. The county helps the Bills make money (lots and lots of it) and the county thereby, in theory, gets a return on that investment. Regardless of where I stand, the current rules allow it and as long as everyone has their hand out, why not the Bills? Â What fries me about the complaints about the Bills getting money is that they get grief because they're so public. Everyone sees the wealth of the league, the players, the owners and says "WTF are we doing supporting them?" It's the visibility. But what we don't see or get jammed down our throats is the millions people like Carl Paladino get in handouts year in and year out and his wealth. We don't see stories of Carl's houses, cars, vacations, nor do we watch him on TV. But just today, the hypocrite (who publically and vehemently opposed any tax breaks for a major project in downtown Buffalo, mainly because the project would compete with his holdings) was granted 1.9M in taxbreaks to build a hotel on Main Street in Amherst. Â Carl is a multimillionaire many, many times over. He owns more real estate (lots of hotels) in WNY than almost any developer not named Benderson. He doesn't need the money, just like the Bills don't. But so long as there is a way to get money, these entities will find a way to show need. Â The system sucks. Either rail against it all, or don't waste your time. You can't have it both ways.
major Posted January 21, 2012 Author Posted January 21, 2012 I didnt read it but I can guess it's saying we shouldn't support teams with money. That's all well and good, I'm in favor of shutting the tap of taxpayer money right off and keep it off. The reality is, it's not working. This theory that taxc breaks and incentives create jobs and thereby economic benefit for all has yet to be proven in WNY. Maybe its working elsewhere, but it's not here. The process is laughable and need to be re-examined. Â All that being said, the current system is in place. The NFL and the Bills now and in the future will get increased scrutiny due to their own success as a league and the perceived lack of need for such help. All true. In reality, the Bills and NFL don't need help taxpayer help. Let the NFL lend the Bills money at a low interest rate and fix the stadium. Ahhh, but the issue is, Erie County owns the stadium, not the Bills. So their is a long-standing public-private partnership here. The county helps the Bills make money (lots and lots of it) and the county thereby, in theory, gets a return on that investment. Regardless of where I stand, the current rules allow it and as long as everyone has their hand out, why not the Bills? Â What fries me about the complaints about the Bills getting money is that they get grief because they're so public. Everyone sees the wealth of the league, the players, the owners and says "WTF are we doing supporting them?" It's the visibility. But what we don't see or get jammed down our throats is the millions people like Carl Paladino get in handouts year in and year out and his wealth. We don't see stories of Carl's houses, cars, vacations, nor do we watch him on TV. But just today, the hypocrite (who publically and vehemently opposed any tax breaks for a major project in downtown Buffalo, mainly because the project would compete with his holdings) was granted 1.9M in taxbreaks to build a hotel on Main Street in Amherst. Â Carl is a multimillionaire many, many times over. He owns more real estate (lots of hotels) in WNY than almost any developer not named Benderson. He doesn't need the money, just like the Bills don't. But so long as there is a way to get money, these entities will find a way to show need. Â The system sucks. Either rail against it all, or don't waste your time. You can't have it both ways. Â Great assessment.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 To the OP as a point of principle, if you want us to comment on an article you ought to post a link to it. Â If you don't know how, someone would be happy to explain it to you. Â It's amazingly simple.
DFITZ1 Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 The article didn't say much that hasn't been said before. nWhat I would like to see with the money spent on the stadium is more revenue generating events at RWS. I still remember the "Superfest" concerts and saw Elton John play there in '76. Apparently drug busts and other things have scared these concerts away. The drug busts were more politically motivated than law enforcement considering that drunken football fans caused more problems than high concert goers (and this I heard from an Erie County Health official). Ideally, putting a retractable dome over the top could really help revenue if (by odd chance) a super bowl were to be played in Buffalo (so what if one is being played in New Jersey, the NFL won't take a chance on a bone chilling blizzard at its primo event). If done right, revenue should be generated by more than just the Bills.
poo Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 The article seems to think that spending on Buffalo would better improve the city.  This article from the Wall street journal calls into question the efficacy of investing in downtown Buffalo. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204409004577156603296740624.html  I would very much like to see the Bills remain and get some sort of support from the state.  I wonder if the treatment given to Ms. Gish earlier in the year has influenced the tone of this Times-Union article.
Best Player Available Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 The article didn't say much that hasn't been said before. nWhat I would like to see with the money spent on the stadium is more revenue generating events at RWS. I still remember the "Superfest" concerts and saw Elton John play there in '76. Apparently drug busts and other things have scared these concerts away. The drug busts were more politically motivated than law enforcement considering that drunken football fans caused more problems than high concert goers (and this I heard from an Erie County Health official). Ideally, putting a retractable dome over the top could really help revenue if (by odd chance) a super bowl were to be played in Buffalo (so what if one is being played in New Jersey, the NFL won't take a chance on a bone chilling blizzard at its primo event). If done right, revenue should be generated by more than just the Bills. The stadium concerts or the lack of them doesn't have anything to do with decades old drug busts and that mentality. I would guess the economy,the promoters and acts themselves don't feel a stadium concert in Buffalo is a sure thing. The Stones haven't hit buffalo on any of their past tours in decades. Ditto every other major act on the planet that do stadium shows. They will play Toronto every time though. Huge stadium shows are extremely expensive. Even the crap seats. Promoters and acts need almost if not guaranteed sell outs to pull up and stage a multi millon dollar show for 70,000 people. These people aren't going to slash market rates because it's Buffalo. Like the Bills do. How many people would attend Bills games with Dallas, Giants, Jets, 49ers, etc. pricing to get in the Ralph? Â Bills fans although fanatical, and will pay for even the less than mediocre product the Bills put out annually. Aren't always ready to dole out the outrageous prices for acts ranging from U2 to Britney Spears. The areas economy is just not good enough. It's seven (and maybe 6 some day) home games and done for the Ralph.
Hammered a Lot Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Do you think the state, in particular the residents of Buffalo, will benefit if the Bills stay put? If so, how? Yes. Jobs
dwight in philly Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 that has been covered on this board about 1000 times. Do some research. The money spent on the Bills will provide more than sufficient ROI i hear ya! i have posted on this subject many times. again, giving millionaire NFL owners tax dollars for stadium upgrades or construction seems totally insane on the surface. however, all those loudmouths saying that "we need roads, schools, bridges, etc" ,THIS JUST IN:that doesnt happen! if one thinks that 100 million tax dollars that wilson may want for stadium upgrades should be spent on the aforementioned , it wont. the politicians are experts at pi$$ing away tax dollars and i say give me something tangible, i e: stadium upgrades to keep the bills in buffalo. it is a quality of life issue and an obvious positive economic assest.
RTW2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Yes. Jobs  Jobs? Doubtful. Quality of life, i.e. Buffalo has one of the 32 NFL teams on the planet to call their own? Definitely.
dpberr Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 It's in the state's best interest to spend some money to retain the Bills. The team has no debt and is financially solid. Yes, it doesn't generate the revenue of larger markets, but when you look at the Bills books, they are a solid investment of taxpayer money. Â Should the Bills leave, the state will spend twice that amount trying to spur something to be done with the now empty stadium, the land around it, and the financial impact on the municipalities in its immediate vicinity. An empty NFL stadium is akin to a closed military base and figuring out what to do with it.
Hammered a Lot Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Jobs? Doubtful. Quality of life, i.e. Buffalo has one of the 32 NFL teams on the planet to call their own? Definitely. Jobs from the game day worker, to the everyday Bills employee and all the delivery/service trucks I see pulling into One Bills Drive everyday, to the player who buy's a house or rents (realter, banking, goverment taxes) and hires out property managemnet services and goes out to bars, supermarket etc...to the player who sell his house, Think of the cash flow and all the service's involved when a player comes into town and when a player leaves.
Arkady Renko Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 I am okay with it so long as the Mets and the Yankees return the money the state paid to help them build their stadiums. (The idea that the Yankees paid for the new Yankees Stadium with only their own money is ridiculously misleading.)
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