The Giants SB Win Proves...

[PDaDdy]

Eli owns Brady

 

New reporters and fans love the drama and personal stories but the Giants TEAM owns the Patriots TEAM.

[MDH]

New reporters and fans love the drama and personal stories but the Giants TEAM owns the Patriots TEAM.

 

This is true but it must be stated that Brady had two chances to pretty much seal the game on back to back plays - one he threw behind a wide open Welker (who would have had to turn in a spectacular circus catch) and on the VERY next play he threw way behind Branch who was also wide open 20 yards down field. Make a good throw on either of these and the game likely would have had a different outcome. Instead they had to punt and we all saw history virtually repeat itself.

Edited February 6, 2012 by MDH

[BuffOrange]

That's why it's a TEAM sport , it takes more than just a good QB . Matter of fact there as been some SB champions that have had less than elite QB's on the winning team , but you do need solid team play all around .

 

I think we should have all learned that during the 90's we had it all with the players & we still came away empty or one of a couple plays or secisions away from winning the big one but everyone here thinks if we draft Andrew Luck or RG 3 we'll be in the SB next year it takes more than one !!!!!!

 

Yep that's exactly what everyone thinks. Strawman arguments on the internets are fun!

[PDaDdy]

This has been an ongoing argument on the board about which side of the ball wins championships. In the game, the pass rush for the Giants reigned supreme in the end forcing Brady to make throws. Then on the offensive side Eli made clutch throws and usually had a lot of time behind his O-Line and his receiver (Manningham) made a clutch catch near the end of the game. Even special teams in the San Fran vs. NY game and was the deciding factor. Obviously the Bills have a long way to go. I don't know if Fitzpatrick is the answer, but he definitely needs to cut down on his turnovers, Stevie needs to stop dropping balls in clutch moments, and our defense needs to stop making every QB look like Dan Marino. And that is why I think balanced teams win championships.

 

All you have to look at is the Giant's post season DEFENSIVE stats.

Points Per Game: 1st

First Downs Per Game: 2nd

3rd Down Percentage: 1st

 

Now let's look at their OFFENSIVE stats:

Points Per Game: 5th

First Downs Per Game: 5th

3rd Down Percentage: 6th

 

What does this tell us? Out of 12 teams that made it into the playoffs the Giants basically had the best defense in these important game stats and they had a mediocre offense that didn't even rank in the top 1/3 of all offenses. Their defense was the best and they did this against pretty good to prolific offenses. The Falcons, the PACKERS, the 49'ers and THE NEW ENGLAND FREAKIN' PATRIOTS!!!! Defense and smart QB play wins championships! Defense and smart QB play win Superbowls.

 

Now if only the Bills could get out of the NFL basement in defense and we can acquire some WRs other than SJ that can catch the ball over their heads with their hands instead of the platoon of body snatchers we have we would be on the right track.

 

Does anyone else notice that good teams have WRs that can catch the ball over their head with their hands? We have guys that are tall but can't catch with their hands over their heads. They are body snatchers that have to be hit perfectly in stride.

Edited February 6, 2012 by PDaDdy

[RyanC883]

Gilbride and Fewell...is it that they had superior talent, better head-coach to work with...?

 

 

They also made in-game adjustments, something that Chan and Co. were entirely incapable of doing this season. Chan has one more season. If we don't turn it around this year, he needs to be gone. Nix is doing a decent job drafting talent. I think the lack of FA has more to do w/ the bean counters. But a continual refusal to modify your schemes during games is why we went downhill fast. Teams knew what we were doing in the second half of the year.

[C.Biscuit97]

They also made in-game adjustments, something that Chan and Co. were entirely incapable of doing this season. Chan has one more season. If we don't turn it around this year, he needs to be gone. Nix is doing a decent job drafting talent. I think the lack of FA has more to do w/ the bean counters. But a continual refusal to modify your schemes during games is why we went downhill fast. Teams knew what we were doing in the second half of the year.

 

Good points. It's not like the Bills came back against hte Raiders and Patriots this year. Oh wait.

 

The Giants were a 9-7 team that got hot at the right time. They also have a #1 overall pick at QB and the best front 4 in the NFL (most of who were there before Fewell took the job).

[Heels20X6]

Good points. It's not like the Bills came back against hte Raiders and Patriots this year. Oh wait.

 

The Giants were a 9-7 team that got hot at the right time. They also have a #1 overall pick at QB and the best front 4 in the NFL (most of who were there before Fewell took the job).

 

And how many of those comebacks happened in the second half? Once teams figured out Chan's offense, it was all downhill from there. The poster you responded to is correct.

[Mr_Blizzard]

Also proves just like last year that it doesn't matter if you have a relatively mediocre 9-7 regular season.... just make the playoffs & get hot going in.

 

Lot of truth to that. And that's why it is important to have a deep bench. Because it's a game of attrition during the playoffs, and you have got to have competent players ready to step in when starters go down.

[NoSaint]

And the Bills very easily could have beat the SB champs on the road with SJ and his band of UDFA receivers.

 

As bad as people want to crap on Fitz, I would guess the Bills would have mor than 6 wins if they had the Giants' front 7 on defense. If Williams can comes back to 75% of what he was and we could add a few more pieces in the draft, this team could easily be a playoff type team.

 

Beating a team week 6 and beating a team in the playoffs are two different feats.

 

And how many of those comebacks happened in the second half? Once teams figured out Chan's offense, it was all downhill from there. The poster you responded to is correct.

 

I have to believe talent and injuries didn't help us get crazy and creative with schemes. We definitely had some fatal flaws for long term consistent success.

[C.Biscuit97]

And how many of those comebacks happened in the second half? Once teams figured out Chan's offense, it was all downhill from there. The poster you responded to is correct.

 

Or the injuries and lack of talent showed up. Everyone is like Fitz can't throw deep. While when your best deep threat is Donald Jones and then he gets hurt, you're going to struggle to throw deep. The fact that got as much production out of this group on offense is a minor miracle.

 

IT's so funny the expectations fans have. Before the season, you really expected Fitz and a group of undrafted FAs to light up the NFL? The sprinkle in injuries to the leading rusher, top deep threat (a probelm in itself), our best slot guy (roscoe), our starting LT and C, what the hell did you expect?

[PDaDdy]

Or the injuries and lack of talent showed up. Everyone is like Fitz can't throw deep. While when your best deep threat is Donald Jones and then he gets hurt, you're going to struggle to throw deep. The fact that got as much production out of this group on offense is a minor miracle.

 

IT's so funny the expectations fans have. Before the season, you really expected Fitz and a group of undrafted FAs to light up the NFL? The sprinkle in injuries to the leading rusher, top deep threat (a probelm in itself), our best slot guy (roscoe), our starting LT and C, what the hell did you expect?

 

The deluded bastards obviously expected miracles which supports the "Messiah Complex". They don't think a team will ever do anything without the new messiah that they keep looking for that can magically turn the crap talent level of 7th round picks and UDFA WRs and TEs we have into the Packers and Patriots WR cores. They are looking for a supposedly quick fix instead of doing the work and putting a TEAM and specifically a statistically competent defense together.

 

Get us some WRs like the Saints, Packers and Patriots are loaded with that can go up and catch a ball over their heads with their hands instead of the arm cradle body catch trap guys we have.

Edited February 6, 2012 by PDaDdy

[C.Biscuit97]

Beating a team week 6 and beating a team in the playoffs are two different feats.

 

 

 

I have to believe talent and injuries didn't help us get crazy and creative with schemes. We definitely had some fatal flaws for long term consistent success.

 

Point taken. OF course if the Bills do win in week 6, the Giants miss the playoffs.

 

This Giants team just proved how even the league is. There are no great teams anymore and each team has a flaw. So it is not that hard to believe the Bills are that far away.

[JPS]

Welker dropped the ball won them the game.

Well yeah...several plays missed stopped the clock and plays made kept the clock moving. Bottom line...Giants didn't give Welker a 2nd chance.

[gumby]

The deluded bastards obviously expected miracles which supports the "Messiah Complex". They don't think a team will ever do anything without the new messiah that they keep looking for that can magically turn the crap talent level of 7th round picks and UDFA WRs and TEs we have into the Packers and Patriots WR cores. They are looking for a supposedly quick fix instead of doing the work and putting a TEAM and specifically a statistically competent defense together.

 

Get us some WRs like the Saints, Packers and Patriots are loaded with that can go up and catch a ball over their heads with their hands instead of the arm cradle body catch trap guys we have.

 

 

The Patriots have a good WR core? When did that happen? Their TEs are fantastic but their WR is below average and lacking in speed.

[PDaDdy]

This is true but it must be stated that Brady had two chances to pretty much seal the game on back to back plays - one he threw behind a wide open Welker (who would have had to turn in a spectacular circus catch) and on the VERY next play he threw way behind Branch who was also wide open 20 yards down field. Make a good throw on either of these and the game likely would have had a different outcome. Instead they had to punt and we all saw history virtually repeat itself.

 

This is a perfect example of the Bills problems. Other than a period where the Pat's line held up Brady got harassed yesterday. It is a perfect example of what can happen to a QB when he isn't allowed to get comfortable and have all day to throw. On Brady's TD throw to Woodhead he had well over 3 seconds to make that pass. Fitz by comparison has to get rid of the ball on average in 2.68 seconds.

 

Good QBs can look bad when pressured and their WRs aren't making plays for them. Sound familiar?

[dpberr]

I think the Super Bowl proved that what we saw last night was the beginning of the end for the Patriots empire.

 

With a lot to do in free agency, age, a slew of unspectacular drafts and a bunch of AFC teams getting stronger, the Patriots will struggle to get back to the big game.

[PDaDdy]

The Patriots have a good WR core? When did that happen? Their TEs are fantastic but their WR is below average and lacking in speed.

 

Well roughly when Wes Welker lead the league this year. LEAD the league. #1 WR in the LEAGUE......and yes I am lumping the TE's into that groups as well. Perhaps I should have said receiving targets to avoid the nit picking.

 

 

So basically yes. Brady had the best WR/TE target group in the league, Wes Welker(yards) and the best TE in the league Rob Gronkowski(every relevant stat) with honorable mention for Aaron Hernandez. Go look at NFL.com. These guys comprise the #1, #5 and #15 WR's overall.

 

Do you think that maybe, just MAYBE the protection that Tom Brady is usually afforded in the pocket and highly talented receiving targets have anything to do with his success? You see what happened when he got some pressure on him and his talent at TE was not 100%. If Brady played in Buffalo and had just signed a contract we would have called him a career loser and tried to run him out of town.

 

How about Aaron Rogers backup Matt Flynn out playing Rogers once he got a game to start? How about Matt Cassel stepping in for Brady a couple years ago. The teams continued success should tell you something about talent level and composition being more important factors than some magical messiah QB that spins flax into gold. There is only one QB that can do that and his name is Peyton Manning. I wouldn't have even believed that until this year and the Colts incredible slide in his absence.

 

I think the Super Bowl proved that what we saw last night was the beginning of the end for the Patriots empire.

 

With a lot to do in free agency, age, a slew of unspectacular drafts and a bunch of AFC teams getting stronger, the Patriots will struggle to get back to the big game.

 

It shows that offense alone, a undefinable franchise QB and incredibly talented receiving threats can't win championships when they are pressured by a great TEAM defense.

Edited February 6, 2012 by PDaDdy

[1B4IDie]

Every poster that brings out the old "Defense wins championships"...

 

Surely you have seen those posts? Or perhaps you are being disingenuous?

"Defense wins Championships" Doesn't preclude you from having the #1 Offense in the League.

 

It doesn't mean that your offense is not capable .

 

It means that you have a really good defense.

 

Which it is much easier to argue that the NYG Super Bowl win proves that "Defense does in fact win Championships" than "having a good offense and a good defense" wins championships.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Why So Serious?

[Rob's House]

I'm tired of hearing that the Giants got hot at the right time. They got HEALTHY at the right time. There is a difference.

[JohnC]

No Bills head coach or starting QB has ever raised a SB trophy as a head coach or starting QB for any team.

 

There's your decision makin'.

 

 

 

Meh.....I don't think that having the worst rushing offense in the entire NFL is what could be defined as balanced football. That was the Giants this year.

 

And the Pats had the worst pass defense in the AFC.

 

I don't think it is impossible that a great running team or a great defensive team could ever win another SB, but if you want the best blueprint for a SB in this era.....

 

the very simple and obvious answer is get a great QB and then try to rush the passer at a high level.

 

Balance? That would be nice but that is hard to maintain long term. A top QB can give you 10 cracks at the playoffs, thus increasing your chances of winning a SB.

 

If you look at the two SB participants and want to draw some obvious conclusions it is they both have quality owners and they both have invested in their organizations. How do you accomplish that? You hire talented football people and then support them, not create obstacles for them.

 

Ernie Accoursi was with the Giants when they acquired Eli Manning. He had to make a high risk draft day maneuver with the Chargers to get him. Is there any doubt that that gamble worked out for them. The Giants have continued to be a very successful organization after Accoursi retired with the elevation of Jerry Reese as their next GM. My point is very simple and basic: Good football people make good football decisions. Mediocre football people consistently make very foolish football decisions.

 

With respect to the Patriots the owner went out and hired Billicick, needing to give up a first round pick to finally get the deal done. Robert Kraft invested a lot of resources in his scouting department. He wouldn't allow Bill Parcells total authority in player selections because he believed that wasn't the right organizational approach to take in evaluating and selecting players. Parcells wouldn't accept anything but total control. The owner didn't believe in that type of one man control. So Parcells left and Kraft ended up selecting the current HC to replace him. It was a big gamble but the owner was proved right on how to build a long term self-sustaining organization.

 

A lot of people talk about how lucky the Pats were in selecting Brady. It's not luck. When he came to training camp they saw that they had a potential special player. They had the courage of their conviction to trade Bledsoe, an upper tier qb, and replace him with the emerging young player. At that time many people felt that was a foolish move to make.

 

The point I want to stress is that in a system designed for parity and player movement both of these wise owners invested a lot of resources in their organizations and went out and hired top shelf talent to run their football operations. You don't see these winning owners interfering in the draft process or have their finance sharks hovering over the football side of the business.

Edited February 6, 2012 by JohnC