Bills Going 4/3 defense

[CarolinaBill]

Stop thinking about what the change means for 2012 ... think about what it SAYS about the way the team has been run since Nix and Chan "took over".

 

Does it REALLY say, "Nix is a good guy, he admits when he's wrong and will do what's right to change it even if it means admitting a mistake"? Or does it say, "it took us TWO YEARS to realize something everyone's been saying since we got here"? And if it's the later, doesn't that PISS YOU OFF?

 

I think the move back to 4-3 is admitting a mistake. But at least we didn't invest another draft in 3-4 guys. Now granted, nix's 1st draft had mostly 43 guys that were asked to change positions. That's why I like this switch, I think we would be hard pressed to find anyone to argue against a healthy kW and dareus anchoring the middle.

Unfortunately it does leave some decent players out in the cold, guys like d. Edwards, merriman, heard, and possibly moats/batten.

 

I am excited to see what the front four of Carrington-kw-dareus-kelsay(maybe super Mario/Campbell) can do.

 

If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm trying to stay positive about all this, and if we can add some skill players that come in and Immediately contribute we may surprise some ppl. Of course staying healthy is most important.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we all screaming to be 3-4 about two years ago? Had to be 3-4 because everyone was running 3-4! What changed?

 

PTR

they never got a real NT or OLBs. That's BS that they couldn't find any, all the other 34 teams did we just didn't prioritize them. Drafting Troup from a "small" school and Moats and Batten from real small schools wasn't the way to go. We should have drafted Cody and JPP in 2010 and then last year we get Dareus and Brooks Reed and our 34 looks like this:

 

DE Dareus

NT Cody

DE Williams

 

OLB JPP

ILB Sheppard

ILB Barnett

OLB Reed

[Beerball]

I think the move back to 4-3 is admitting a mistake. But at least we didn't invest another draft in 3-4 guys. Now granted, nix's 1st draft had mostly 43 guys that were asked to change positions. That's why I like this switch, I think we would be hard pressed to find anyone to argue against a healthy kW and dareus anchoring the middle.

Unfortunately it does leave some decent players out in the cold, guys like d. Edwards, merriman, heard, and possibly moats/batten.

 

I am excited to see what the front four of Carrington-kw-dareus-kelsay(maybe super Mario/Campbell) can do.

 

If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm trying to stay positive about all this, and if we can add some skill players that come in and Immediately contribute we may surprise some ppl. Of course staying healthy is most important.

Thanks, you've convinced me. Only 2 FA periods and drafts have been wasted in making the switch back. Because this is Buffalo we should be happy that 4-5 years weren't wasted. Besides, now the mistake is 'admitted'.

 

The move to a 3-4 after his hiring was a mistake of monumental proportions. It smacks of my way or the highway, it was arrogance, it was a composite of past Bills coaching failures. Parcels didn't do what Gailey did. He didn't switch to a 3-4 until his personnel fit the scheme. But, not Chanwards, oh no. We're switching day 1 even though we don't have 11 guys fit for the scheme. Anyone blaming this on Edwards? Not so fast my friend, Edwards was enabled by Edwards and Nix.

 

You do not select a scheme with a blind eye to your personnel, you fit the schemet to the personnel you have.

 

Stupid arrogant decision then, but I'm so happy and relieved that Chanwards has 'admitted' his mistake. If Jerry Sullivan's next column doesn't rail against this stupidity then he should be fired.

[CarolinaBill]

However, by drafting 43 guys originally, the switch back shouldn't be nearly as difficult. For Kelsey, kw, troup, cArrington, and even dareus, this move allows them to get back to what they do better than in the 34. really, the only guys we drafted high and asked to switch were Troup and Carrington, now they are back in their "comfort zone". It's not like we blew 2 drafts on all 34 players.

 

Imo, the original move away from 43 was more a move away from the Tampa 2 cover scheme that was all the rage prior to the 34 coming back into style.

 

Defensively, this move better fits our personnel that we currently have.

[Bob in STL]

linky

 

Base defense is switching back to the 4-3 with Wanny in charge. No surprise there.

 

Typical quote from Chan: "If you look around the league today people are playing four-man fronts and three-man fronts, they're playing a little bit of everything," Gailey said. "We're going to try and put our guys in position to be successful, whatever that position might be. If it's odd spacing sometimes or even spacing sometimes."

 

I wish the Bills would stop looking around the league at start looking at their own roster a little closer. The move to the 3-4 was poorly concieved and poorly executed. It caused us to reach for Troup and Carrington when there were better players on the draft board.

 

Finally, it sounds like Chan is getting what many already knew: "[A], I think that we want to utilize our personnel to the best and we feel like this will allow us to do that," Gailey said. "B, Dave is very knowledgeable in this defense and he's the guy we wanted doing the job and that's another reason we're doing it. And, C, it's easier to find people. It's tougher to find people in the true 3-4 in a lot of ways. It makes it a little bit easier to find people from time to time to run a four-man front than a three-man front. It gets extremely hard to find those outside 'backers year in and year out. It gets tougher and tougher."

 

The wheels have been spinning for over a decade. It won't matter what scheme they play, they need to upgrade the talent and the coaching to win.

 

Oopppps. I see someone posted this already. Sorry Mods, its early.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Bob in STL

[CodeMonkey]

Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we all screaming to be 3-4 about two years ago? Had to be 3-4 because everyone was running 3-4! What changed?

 

PTR

4-12 and 6-10 happened.

[Billsrhody]

We need Coples!

[Ramius]

I dont think the change is that big of a deal for 2 reasons. First, (sadly) our personnell is still best suited for a 4-3. Second, you play with 5 or 6 DBs on the field what, probably close to 60% of the time. So 60% of the time we had a 4 man front anyway.

 

If the Bills should be criticized for anything, it should be for switching to the 3-4, but not committing the necessary resources and not having the necessary plan to successfully convert.

[Turbosrrgood]

I just read Chan Gailey is going to a 4/3 defense next season...

 

http://www.rtsports.com/football-news/1000087938

 

I wonder how this will affect free agency and the draft?

 

I don't think this is a big surprise for many, however I am very happy just to know what direction we are heading in. Now we know what scheme we will be running during our meaningless arguments about personnel.

 

It does seem to make sense though. Wanny is a 4-3 guy, we have 2 top quality DT's IMO, Kelsay is decent as a 4-3 end.

 

The obvious BIG need, is for a big time pass rushing DE opposite Kelsay (and maybe even one to compete with him). As well as at least 1 real, starting quality, 4-3 OLB. Barnett is capable, and I have a feeling the Bills will try to use Sheppard as a starter as well.

 

I dont think the change is that big of a deal for 2 reasons. First, (sadly) our personnell is still best suited for a 4-3. Second, you play with 5 or 6 DBs on the field what, probably close to 60% of the time. So 60% of the time we had a 4 man front anyway.

 

If the Bills should be criticized for anything, it should be for switching to the 3-4, but not committing the necessary resources and not having the necessary plan to successfully convert.

 

The biggest mistake they made in this regard is hiring a below average ILB coach to oversee the tough task of converting from a 4-3 to a 3-4. Edwards was never even close to qualified for that. I think Nix has been mostly good as a GM, but the Edwards signing was awful and set this team back a few years...

[Bob in STL]

I dont think the change is that big of a deal for 2 reasons. First, (sadly) our personnell is still best suited for a 4-3. Second, you play with 5 or 6 DBs on the field what, probably close to 60% of the time. So 60% of the time we had a 4 man front anyway.

 

If the Bills should be criticized for anything, it should be for switching to the 3-4, but not committing the necessary resources and not having the necessary plan to successfully convert.

 

Bingo.

 

Their half-hearted attempt to convert to a 3-4 brought us Troup, Carrington and a bunch of recycled LBs. Not good enough Mr. Nix. Not good enough for any DC to work with this crew.

[HuSeYiN1978]

I would bet that Merriman if healthy will be the starting RDE with Kelsay the starting LDE. I know it is a stretch but If Merriman, Williams, Dareus, and Kelsay all stay healthy- It could be a pretty decent front 4. Now for me the real questions are: Is Dwan Edwards worth keeping as a penetrating 2 gap DT? Answer: Yes, unless they feel that Carrington is better fit at DT than DE. Next question is Carrington a DE or DT? Answer: I believe he has a good enough burst to play DE and with the fact that Buffalo insisted on lining him up as OLB, I would say he is now looked at as a DE, also Edwards and Carrington give the line a nice look in a BIG front or goaline at DE. Next Question I have is will Spencer Johnson be worth keeping? Answer: Yes, Until they have the luxury of drafting another DT which I don't believe will happen this year, We are looking at Williams, Dareus, Edwards, Johnson, and Troupe at DT. It should be a very strong point of this team, perhaps the best rotation in the league, Heard may beat one of those guys out. Next question I raise is how we stack up at 4-3 DE as a whole? Well Merriman could be the answer, and I have a feeling he will be a great RDE if he recovers. Kelsay is aging and at best is a great swing backup DE that can play both sides, more than likely for lack of a better option he will be starting again and I see that as a weak spot although if it was our weakest spot that is ok. Carrington ideally would progress into the starting LDE role this season and I really hope he does. I say he does by the end of the season, and this will be Kelsays last year here. I see Moats as a tweener but he lands on the roster as a pass rush specialist at DE. Batten is done, As of now he looks like the 5th DE but there will def be someone brought in to compete for a starting position and/or backup injury prone Merriman.

 

On to the LB position. Well, Chan said Shep is the Mike so that is that. Barnett is too good to sit and he fits on either side in a 4-3. Originally, I thought he is weak side, but either or is fine with Barnett. He will be an every down player for sure. Expect Sheppard to really take a jump and be a force in the middle, White will back him up and he fits the bill as a middle backer in 4-3, although I could see bringing Morrison back as I feel he is better suited to play 4-3 mike. Buddy will Need to bring in at least 3 OLB and that is mandatory. I would not bring back Scott. He is not the solution. It won't be hard or expensive to get 1 4-3 OLB to start in free agency. Who? I don't have any idea. But It doesn't seem hard to figure out that the biggest need no matter what defense we ran was going to be OLB. So, Now we don't need to get the best pash rushing OLB anymore and that is a good thing because there seems to be too much competition out there for those guys and the top guys are going to cost a fortune, where the top 4-3 LB will be reasonable. It puts us more in the game come Free Agency. Now If Merriman is not going to be on the team, DE is just as big a need as OLB, and with Merrimans history, a lot of you will feel justified in saying that DE is the biggest need now, and I agree with that stance, but the optimistic thing to do is hope he recovers cause he is good when healthy.

 

The secondary doesn't change but I do feel that we have a great secondary for a 4-3 alignment. Byrd and Wilson have very good ball skills and are sure enough tacklers to play any type of defense but it is worth noting that Byrd had his most impressive season in a 4-3. I personally think Wilson is very Good and Searcy will be a great backup to both of them. Williams and Florence form a tough physical duo at CB next year and Rogers and McKelvin will be fine at nickel and dime. With the Lineup looking like Florence, Byrd, Wilson, and Williams- they could be one of the largest most physical secondaries in the league as well. McGee is done, he has no bonus and costs 6 million per season. He is done. There will be at least 1 CB and 1 Safety drafted along with 2 OLB, and at least 1 DE. They will have at least 10 selections in the draft this year with the comp pick(s) from losing Poz and Whitner. We already have 9 due to baltimore trading us a 4th and Seattle trading a conditional 6th or 5th.

 

So in my opinion, it is a wise decision to switch to a 4-3 based on who is on the team. Merriman fits the bill just fine at RDE, our DT rotation will be amazing, Kelsay is at least adequate if Carrington doesn't progress to start, & they need another guy drafted high(rd 1-3) to compete and insure against another Merriman injury. The pressure generated from Dareus and Williams should be enough to free up our DE to be in one on one scenarios. OLB is a mess, but now at least it is affordable and likely that we can get a good starter with experience to come in right away and make an impact. I expect a couple mid rd picks to add to the LB core, and most likely they will be OLB. The secondary is in great shape and will benefit from the draft as usual. I expect a early to mid rd pick(2-4) will be made on CB, and a late rd selection of a safety with speed and ball skills will be made as well. For some reason, safety is a position that lasts in the NFL draft. The defense should improve vastly! All they need to do is continue to draft well and add a starting OLB through free agency...

 

I just love how you talked just defense... Even though what I replied has a bit of sarcasm to it, I agree with almost everything you said... The only disagreement I have is Drayton Florence being on the team. The guy causes so many PI calls it's getting ridiculous. I say we pick up a CB in Free Agency or the draft and push him to get a starting role or at least backup Rogers... I like rogers and Williams as our CB combo... Get rid of Florence... Write another 3 paragraphs and fix the offense now...

[Turbosrrgood]

I just love how you talked just defense... Even though what I replied has a bit of sarcasm to it, I agree with almost everything you said... The only disagreement I have is Drayton Florence being on the team. The guy causes so many PI calls it's getting ridiculous. I say we pick up a CB in Free Agency or the draft and push him to get a starting role or at least backup Rogers... I like rogers and Williams as our CB combo... Get rid of Florence... Write another 3 paragraphs and fix the offense now...

 

Florence would be fine if the opposing QB didn't have eternity to deliver the football. Yes he makes a few mistakes, but the Bills could do a lot worse than Florence (McKelvin). Florence also makes his share of very good plays. Rogers showed flashes, mostly as a KR. I don't know that I would consider him a solid starter when we have only seen him in very limited nickle/dime coverage. He has potential at least.

 

Williams is a stud though, he is a lock to start next year.

 

With Wanny running a 4-3 defense, we will certainly look a heck of a lot different on D than we did last year...Whether that means success or not remains to be seen.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[tombstone56]

The way i see it is we dont have enough olbs to play a 3-4,,, or enough des to play a 4-3.. gotta believe the bills are going to use fa this year to help defense as well as the draft.. still hoping they take a run at solai and campbell.then use the draft for two olbs ,then you play whatever because theyd have the personel to do it,,,imo.

[Best Player Available]

linky

 

Base defense is switching back to the 4-3 with Wanny in charge. No surprise there.

 

Typical quote from Chan: "If you look around the league today people are playing four-man fronts and three-man fronts, they're playing a little bit of everything," Gailey said. "We're going to try and put our guys in position to be successful, whatever that position might be. If it's odd spacing sometimes or even spacing sometimes."

 

I wish the Bills would stop looking around the league at start looking at their own roster a little closer. The move to the 3-4 was poorly concieved and poorly executed. It caused us to reach for Troup and Carrington when there were better players on the draft board.

 

Finally, it sounds like Chan is getting what many already knew: "[A], I think that we want to utilize our personnel to the best and we feel like this will allow us to do that," Gailey said. "B, Dave is very knowledgeable in this defense and he's the guy we wanted doing the job and that's another reason we're doing it. And, C, it's easier to find people. It's tougher to find people in the true 3-4 in a lot of ways. It makes it a little bit easier to find people from time to time to run a four-man front than a three-man front. It gets extremely hard to find those outside 'backers year in and year out. It gets tougher and tougher."

 

The wheels have been spinning for over a decade. It won't matter what scheme they play, they need to upgrade the talent and the coaching to win.

 

Oopppps. I see someone posted this already. Sorry Mods, its early.

Can we move on to Whaley now? This is a patchwork rebuild. Find the cheaper, re-habbing, over the hill, never drafted, player. Then hoping for the best is not a plan for success. Not too mention using a back up as your Quarterback. And standing pat on that position. This business that Ralph runs knows that most of the fanbase would be thrilled with a middle of the pack team. This team including the starting quarterback has not shed the losing culture. Fitz is a nice guy, not a leader.

[Sisyphean Bills]

2 years in, and they are going to the Miami 4-3 defense. Too bad they spent two years retooling the defense with a "Where's the Beef?" approach. Now, they'll be looking for smaller, faster defenders. Is it too late to bring back Aaron Maybin?

[BillsVet]

The way i see it is we dont have enough olbs to play a 3-4,,, or enough des to play a 4-3.. gotta believe the bills are going to use fa this year to help defense as well as the draft.. still hoping they take a run at solai and campbell.then use the draft for two olbs ,then you play whatever because theyd have the personel to do it,,,imo.

 

They can't rush the passer in either defense, which is not so much a schematic problem as it is a personnel acquisition one. Finding 4-3 DE's who rush from the 7 or 9 technique is a challenge, but those teams that have them are successful. The Giants and pre-2011 Colts are outstanding examples. Those who don't have them are shredded in the passing game.

 

Buffalo being a team that doesn't spend in UFA, I fully expect them to address this issue with draft picks. In the past 2 drafts, Buffalo has used 5 of their top 6 picks (1st-3rd rounds) on defense. When you rebuild the defense each year with questionable results, the offense will pay a price.

Edited January 31, 2012 by BillsVet

[mob16151]

2 years in, and they are going to the Miami 4-3 defense. Too bad they spent two years retooling the defense with a "Where's the Beef?" approach. Now, they'll be looking for smaller, faster defenders. Is it too late to bring back Aaron Maybin?

 

The Bills are actually set up pretty well to run the 40 front 4-3.

[K-9]

... Buffalo being spendthrift, I fully expect them to address this issue with draft picks. In the past 2 drafts, Buffalo has used 5 of their top 6 picks (1st-3rd rounds) on defense. When you rebuild the defense each year with questionable results, the offense will pay a price.

 

So now you're suggesting Ralph isn't cheap? If he's really a spendthrift, then wouldn't they go balls to the wall to find a high-priced FA instead of signing a cheaper draft pick?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Rico]

Look on the bright side, at least the draft picks(and the few free agents) they spent on 3-4 personnel haven't panned out very well.

 

So who is made obsolete now?

 

Dwan Edwards?

Torrel Troup?

Alex Carrington?

Kelvin Shepard?

Kellen Heard?

Danny Batten?

Arthur Moats?

 

Merriman was a washout anyway but this probably clarifies that as well.

 

Some of those guys will stay and have to play a lot of snaps, but usually you can go into a season looking for some breakout performers and it's hard to have any confidence in those guys finding their stride as oversized sideline-to-sideline LB's and one gap, pass rushing DL.

The other bright side is that Pos the Puss has already left town, if they make this switch last year. he might still be around. Edited January 31, 2012 by Rico

[BillsVet]

So now you're suggesting Ralph isn't cheap? If he's really a spendthrift, then wouldn't they go balls to the wall to find a high-priced FA instead of signing a cheaper draft pick?

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Pardon me. I meant to say RW and his self-appointed top executives are not going to spend big in UFA.