Anybody Watch "Namath" on HBO?

[EasternOHBillsFan]

So, calling plays = calling your OWN number more often and increasing your OWN stat line. Got it. Sorry I wasted your time.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Who calls their own plays and throws more interceptions that touchdowns? He NEVER had one season where he threw more than +2 TD/INT. NEVER. Is that the kind of QB you want on your team, and calling his own plays at that? Come ON, be serious. I mean look at his stats by season!!! It is really pathetic... there is no way the Jets won because of his play, that's for sure. 51.2% completion and the Jets went 10-4!!!!!!!

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/N/NamaJo00.htm

 

My other analysis of Super Bowl III of course is ignored.

Edited January 30, 2012 by BmoreBills

[K-9]

Who calls their own plays and throws more interceptions that touchdowns? He NEVER had one season where he threw more than +2 TD/INT. NEVER. Is that the kind of QB you want on your team, and calling his own plays at that? Come ON, be serious.

 

My other analysis of Super Bowl III of course is ignored.

 

Your other "analysis" of SB III, which is also made in a vacuum, was ignored because it was not germane to the discussion. Namath did not play against the Baltimore offense, regardless of how much better Unitas was or how many other AFL QBs Namath thought were better than Morrall. If the Jets caught a break by not having to face Unitas, that has NOTHING to do with Namath.

 

That Baltimore defense was one of the best in the game. The Jets had no business being on the same field with them, let alone have a chance to win. And Morrall was bad enough to lead that Colt offense to being one of the top offenses in the game that season. They were a juggernaut and there was good reason they were 18 point favorites. Hell, the Colts D did well to limit the Jets to FGs. If it makes you feel better to believe that a less than 100% Johnny U would have won the game for them, so be it. But there was no FACTUAL evidence to back that up given the great success Morrall and that offense had the entire season and in the playoffs. It could be argued that Unitas' early 4th qtr. INT, when the Colts still had time, was a huge mistake or that his late 4th qtr TD pass was a garbage time TD as the Jets were already ahead 16-0 and the game was pretty much theirs at that point. We can make stats say whatever we want for our convenience.

 

As to wanting Namath for a QB, I'd take him any day of the week. Sure he called some bad plays and made mistakes. Who doesn't? Even Unitas had a bad game now and then. But he was a great QB. You're stuck on "passing" when that is only part of the equation. And, stats aside, Namath was one helluva passer as well.

 

Perhaps the biggest disconnect you and I can have on this subject is your assertion that if Namath was such a good play caller, especially in that SB, that he would have had better stats. I honestly don't know what to say to that without sounding rude. Suffice to say, we have radically opposing views on playcalling and how important it is in the context of a game.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited January 30, 2012 by K-9

[Jim in Anchorage]

This is one of the most interesting threads I've seen here in a while[not saying much competing with endless 4-3 vs 3-4 threads]but interesting because I feel a real loyalty to the AFL. Guess it's a Bills thing,but I really don't like the NFC. To this day they feel like the "establishment".

Some of you older guys may make some sense of that.

[bbb]

Wasn't Unitas pretty washed up by this time?

[vorpma]

If he called his own plays, then you would think the Jets would have been better and his numbers would have been better, and so all the more evidence that he wasn't a HOF quarterback.

 

Let's look at the statistics:

 

16-7 Final Score.

N.Y. Jets: 1 TD, 3 FGs.

Baltimore Colts: 1 TD with Johnny Unitas at QB, in the 4th quarter.

Earl Morrall intercepted 3 times in the first half.

 

Joe Namath:

 

"Earl Morrall would be third-string quarterback on the Jets," he said. "there are maybe five or six better quarterbacks than Morrall in the AFL."

 

Even HE knew that it was the key to the game, because if Unitas had been out there the game, it would have been tough for him to keep up with the scoring of the Colts against their defense. Earl Morrall gave the Jets the game, dooming the Colts defense. This is a script written many times- a team who should win does not because of a liability, and the Colts' liability was Earl Morrall. Joe Namath didn't win that game, the Colts lost it.

 

Being an avid old AFL fan, I love that statement! And I love all the posts regarding Namath, for me it brings back a different era of football, one that can never be replicated. The AFL!

 

Wasn't Unitas pretty washed up by this time?

 

He was still Johnny U!

[K-9]

Being an avid old AFL fan, I love that statement! And I love all the posts regarding Namath, for me it brings back a different era of football, one that can never be replicated. The AFL!

 

 

He was still Johnny U!

 

Yeah, he was still Johnny U, one of the greatest ever, but 1968 was his 13th season in the league and he was a far cry from THAT Johnny U. He was hurt that season as well.

 

Ironically, his injuries caught up to him, much like they did with Joe Willie.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[RevWarRifleman]

Yep. Namath was tough as nails. Which, ironically, is what you'll be crapping after your Iron City lab "experiments."

 

But you'll be throwing 60 yard passes on a frozen rope so it's well worth it.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Ha!! Great stuff! Well, crapping nails will come in handy with all those outdoor projects I got lined up this spring. Let the "experiment" begin.

[bbb]

I just was doing some reading on wiki, and it seems that both of the QBs had something left in the tank even three years later:

 

Unitas was involved in only one other head-to-head meeting with Namath after their 1970 regular season meeting (won by the Colts, 29-22, on a day when Namath's wrist was broken on the final play of the game). That last meeting was a memorable one. On September 24, 1972, at Memorial Stadium, Unitas threw for 376 yards and three touchdowns, but Namath upstaged him again, bombing the Colts for 496 yards and six touchdowns in a 44-34 Jets victory --- their first over Baltimore since the 1970 merger.

 

Odd, though that my memories of football start around that season the Jets won the Super Bowl (I remember losing a bet to my grandmother - I said I bet the Bills lose to the Jets and the Bills beat them to win their only game of the year! Gram let me off the hook for the buck that I didn't have.)..............And, I don't remember Unitas ever being as good as Namath, Lamonica, Dawson, Tarkenton, etc. He seemed kind of like Willie Mays was at that point in time.

Edited January 30, 2012 by bbb

[RevWarRifleman]

If he called his own plays, then you would think the Jets would have been better and his numbers would have been better, and so all the more evidence that he wasn't a HOF quarterback.

 

Let's look at the statistics:

 

16-7 Final Score.

N.Y. Jets: 1 TD, 3 FGs.

Baltimore Colts: 1 TD with Johnny Unitas at QB, in the 4th quarter.

Earl Morrall intercepted 3 times in the first half.

 

Joe Namath:

 

"Earl Morrall would be third-string quarterback on the Jets," he said. "there are maybe five or six better quarterbacks than Morrall in the AFL."

 

Even HE knew that it was the key to the game, because if Unitas had been out there the game, it would have been tough for him to keep up with the scoring of the Colts against their defense. Earl Morrall gave the Jets the game, dooming the Colts defense. This is a script written many times- a team who should win does not because of a liability, and the Colts' liability was Earl Morrall. Joe Namath didn't win that game, the Colts lost it.

Bmore, there's way more to Joe Namath than SB III. He changed the football landscape in America. Before SB III, he was the first QB to throw for 4,000 yards - on a 12 game regular season schedule!! The Jets under Namath showed that you could use the pass to set up the run. No teams in the NFL, including the '69 Colts were doing that. All of those teams were following in lock-step the Lombardy Packers,"we're gonna run the ball in the ALLY". If you were watching the Jets, and other AFL teams in the 60's, it was like watching the Saints today. It was fast-break football & Namath was instumental in that phenominon. Now swith the chanel in the 1960's & watch the NFL, doesn't matter the match up: Bears vs Lions, Packers v 49'ers, Giants v Eagles.....it was like watching paint dry. Namath was a cult hero that permanantly changed the sports landscape, not just the football landscape in America. He desrves to be in the HOF. He earned it!!!

[K-9]

Bmore, there's way more to Joe Namath than SB III. He changed the football landscape in America. Before SB III, he was the first QB to throw for 4,000 yards - on a 12 game regular season schedule!! The Jets under Namath showed that you could use the pass to set up the run. No teams in the NFL, including the '69 Colts were doing that. All of those teams were following in lock-step the Lombardy Packers,"we're gonna run the ball in the ALLY". If you were watching the Jets, and other AFL teams in the 60's, it was like watching the Saints today. It was fast-break football & Namath was instumental in that phenominon. Now swith the chanel in the 1960's & watch the NFL, doesn't matter the match up: Bears vs Lions, Packers v 49'ers, Giants v Eagles.....it was like watching paint dry. Namath was a cult hero that permanantly changed the sports landscape, not just the football landscape in America. He desrves to be in the HOF. He earned it!!!

 

I would also add that it took another 12 years and two extra games for another player to reach the 4,000 yard plateau. And it's worth mentioning that the wide open league of the AFL was done at the time of wide hash marks, bump and run coverage all over the field, and no liberalized rules designed to open up passing offenses.

 

But still, for me, it's the whole concept of calling his own plays that made him such a great QB of his era. In today's era of specialization and speakers inside the QB's helmet, it's no wonder that there's less appreciation for it. It's what I liked best about Kelly as well.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[vorpma]

This is one of the most interesting threads I've seen here in a while[not saying much competing with endless 4-3 vs 3-4 threads]but interesting because I feel a real loyalty to the AFL. Guess it's a Bills thing,but I really don't like the NFC. To this day they feel like the "establishment".

Some of you older guys may make some sense of that.

 

I still hate the NFL and the Tennessee Titans and Indianapolis Colts - they are not AFL Teams. And Love Namarh for his bold statement and following through! The AFL is the greatest era of football ever! I was 12 years old and Namath beating the colts was awesome for AFL fans - screw statistics! Like it or not I want the Patriots to kick ass on the Giants.

 

I just was doing some reading on wiki, and it seems that both of the QBs had something left in the tank even three years later:

 

Unitas was involved in only one other head-to-head meeting with Namath after their 1970 regular season meeting (won by the Colts, 29-22, on a day when Namath's wrist was broken on the final play of the game). That last meeting was a memorable one. On September 24, 1972, at Memorial Stadium, Unitas threw for 376 yards and three touchdowns, but Namath upstaged him again, bombing the Colts for 496 yards and six touchdowns in a 44-34 Jets victory --- their first over Baltimore since the 1970 merger.

 

Odd, though that my memories of football start around that season the Jets won the Super Bowl (I remember losing a bet to my grandmother - I said I bet the Bills lose to the Jets and the Bills beat them to win their only game of the year! Gram let me off the hook for the buck that I didn't have.)..............And, I don't remember Unitas ever being as good as Namath, Lamonica, Dawson, Tarkenton, etc. He seemed kind of like Willie Mays was at that point in time.

 

Great Post!

[RevWarRifleman]

I would also add that it took another 12 years and two extra games for another player to reach the 4,000 yard plateau. And it's worth mentioning that the wide open league of the AFL was done at the time of wide hash marks, bump and run coverage all over the field, and no liberalized rules designed to open up passing offenses.

 

But still, for me, it's the whole concept of calling his own plays that made him such a great QB of his era. In today's era of specialization and speakers inside the QB's helmet, it's no wonder that there's less appreciation for it. It's what I liked best about Kelly as well.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

K-9, somewhere in the heavens, you know Jack Kemp is smiling down on guys like you & I and others. Go Bills is right

[Jim in Anchorage]

I still hate the NFL and the Tennessee Titans and Indianapolis Colts - they are not AFL Teams. And Love Namarh for his bold statement and following through! The AFL is the greatest era of football ever! I was 12 years old and Namath beating the colts was awesome for AFL fans - screw statistics! Like it or not I want the Patriots to kick ass on the Giants.

 

 

 

Great Post!

Exactly. AFL RULES. Enough said.

[K-9]

I still hate the NFL and the Tennessee Titans and Indianapolis Colts - they are not AFL Teams. And Love Namarh for his bold statement and following through! The AFL is the greatest era of football ever! I was 12 years old and Namath beating the colts was awesome for AFL fans - screw statistics! Like it or not I want the Patriots to kick ass on the Giants.

 

In fairness to the Titans, since they are the original Houston Oilers, I can cut them some slack. You'd have to add the Steelers and the Browns to the Colts if being an AFL team is the criteria.

 

Perhaps it's because we were all kids back then but that was a GREAT era for football indeed!

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

K-9, somewhere in the heavens, you know Jack Kemp is smiling down on guys like you & I and others. Go Bills is right

 

I'd like to think so, Rev. I'd like to think so. I was five when they won their first AFL championship and Jack Kemp was the first Bill I pretended to be in the playground.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Jim in Anchorage]

In fairness to the Titans, since they are the original Houston Oilers, I can cut them some slack. You'd have to add the Steelers and the Browns to the Colts if being an AFL team is the criteria.

 

Perhaps it's because we were all kids back then but that was a GREAT era for football indeed!

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

 

I'd like to think so, Rev. I'd like to think so. I was five when they won their first AFL championship and Jack Kemp was the first Bill I pretended to be in the playground.

 

GO BILLS!!!

.

steelers and Brown's were never AFL. NFL since the 20's.

[K-9]

.

steelers and Brown's were never AFL. NFL since the 20's.

 

I think that's what I said. In vorpma's first post he said that he didn't like the Colts because they weren't an AFL team. That's why I said to add the Steelers and Browns if that's was the criteria. Guess I wasn't clear enough. Won't be the last time.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited January 31, 2012 by K-9

[jkx2]

I think that's what I said. In vorpma's first thread he said that he didn't like the Colts because they weren't an AFL team. That's why I said to add the Steelers and Browns if that's was the criteria. Guess I wasn't clear enough. Won't be the last time.

 

GO BILLS!!!

You have to add the Ravens to the list also because they were the old Cleveland Browns of teams I never root for in the Super Bowl. I always want any original AFL team to win. I hated Super Bowl V. The first year of the merger and you had two NFL teams playing. It was also one of the most boring Super Bowls ever played. AFL forever!

[K-9]

You have to add the Ravens to the list also because they were the old Cleveland Browns of teams I never root for in the Super Bowl. I always want any original AFL team to win. I hated Super Bowl V. The first year of the merger and you had two NFL teams playing. It was also one of the most boring Super Bowls ever played. AFL forever!

 

Good catch. Ravens are out.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[KD in CA]

Good documentary about one of the very unique athletes in history.

As for the argument about his greatness, remember it's called the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Great Career Stats. Namath was probably the biggest 'star' in football history, the most important player in AFL history and one of the biggest cultural icons of the 60s period. He was also an outstanding payer who delivered a championship but couldn't overcome the injuries (thanks in part to primitive sports medicine and a brutal era of physical football).

 

[Trader]

If he called his own plays, then you would think the Jets would have been better and his numbers would have been better, and so all the more evidence that he wasn't a HOF quarterback.

 

Let's look at the statistics:

 

16-7 Final Score.

N.Y. Jets: 1 TD, 3 FGs.

Baltimore Colts: 1 TD with Johnny Unitas at QB, in the 4th quarter.

Earl Morrall intercepted 3 times in the first half.

 

Joe Namath:

 

"Earl Morrall would be third-string quarterback on the Jets," he said. "there are maybe five or six better quarterbacks than Morrall in the AFL."

 

Even HE knew that it was the key to the game, because if Unitas had been out there the game, it would have been tough for him to keep up with the scoring of the Colts against their defense. Earl Morrall gave the Jets the game, dooming the Colts defense. This is a script written many times- a team who should win does not because of a liability, and the Colts' liability was Earl Morrall. Joe Namath didn't win that game, the Colts lost it.

Earl Morrall was the MVP of the NFL that year. Unitas, who was Namath's idol by the way, was past his prime. It was Rocky Marciano vrs. Joe Louis. Also the Jets ran the ball the entire 4th quarter Namath wanted.. to he trusted his D. Unitas threw a TD pass but he also threw an interception. The jets got ahead and ran the clock. I have no doubt that if the two teams played 100 times the Colts would have won more, the jets were 17 point dogs no one who knew anything about football gave them a chance.

 

In the fourth quarter of tthat Super Bowl it was not about statistics, it was about emotion and momentum. The AFL had been eating the NFL crap for a lot of years when the Jets got the bit in their teeth and ran over one of the greatest defenses of all time. The Colts were late for the party. It's history and it's in the book.