section122 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 For those that want Soliai signed I think the assumption would be that they are sticking with the 34. yes and are dreaming of a line that feature Dareus, Soliai, and Williams. That would help our run d and pass rush as Dareus and Williams are both penetrators. I think it would help tremendously. Nickel could even be a 3-3-5 look to utilize them on all 3 downs.
Dr. Fong Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 For those that want Soliai signed I think the assumption would be that they are sticking with the 34. What about his play suggests to you that he can't play as a DT in a 4-3? I think people really get too hung up on the differences between 3-4 and 4-3. I just want some strong, nasty, quick defensive linemen that can stop the run and at least push the pocket back into the QBs face. A player like Soliai would look awesome next to Dareus and Williams no matter what the scheme. Now imagine those three with the addition of a prototypical pass rushing DE thrown into the mix. Another great thing about Soliai is the versatility he gives you with switching between 3-4 and 4-3. He gives you a true NT to run a 3-4 when you want to. He is who Torrell Troup was supposed to be.
Turbosrrgood Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 yes and are dreaming of a line that feature Dareus, Soliai, and Williams. That would help our run d and pass rush as Dareus and Williams are both penetrators. I think it would help tremendously. Nickel could even be a 3-3-5 look to utilize them on all 3 downs. While that may be a "dream line". I just don't see it as being realistic. KW has never played DE Soliai is probably going to be a top FA among dlinemen, he wouldn't come cheap, on top of the recently signed KW contract, and Dareus's #3 overall rookie contract. Signing him would most certainly mean not getting high level pass rushing and WR FA's...Those positions are far in a way more needing of top FA talent. While Soliai is a top NT, the fact remains that we already have 2 pretty good NT's signed, Dareus and KW. Just doesn't make sense. Especially considering the other major needs this team has.
Turbosrrgood Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) What about his play suggests to you that he can't play as a DT in a 4-3? I think people really get too hung up on the differences between 3-4 and 4-3. I just want some strong, nasty, quick defensive linemen that can stop the run and at least push the pocket back into the QBs face. A player like Soliai would look awesome next to Dareus and Williams no matter what the scheme. Now imagine those three with the addition of a prototypical pass rushing DE thrown into the mix. Another great thing about Soliai is the versatility he gives you with switching between 3-4 and 4-3. He gives you a true NT to run a 3-4 when you want to. He is who Torrell Troup was supposed to be. You do understand how a 4-3 works right? 2 DT's two pass rushing DE's... A 4-3 formation would not have Soliai lining up next to Dareus and Williams, at least not the base package... As good as those guys are, none of them are 4-3 DE's. 1 of those 3 would be wasted high salary talent... Edited January 25, 2012 by Turbosrrgood
Dr. Fong Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 You do understand how a 4-3 works right? 2 DT's two pass rushing DE's... A 4-3 formation would not have Soliai lining up next to Dareus and Williams, at least not the base package... As good as those guys are, none of them are 4-3 DE's. 1 of those 3 would be wasted high salary talent... I understand how everyone thinks the 4-3 is supposed to work. That doesn't mean that's the way it always has to. Kelsay is a decent 4-3 DE. I think a traditional pass rushing DE is where the Bills go in the draft. I also think Dareus or Williams can play 4-3 DE in spot duty, primarily on first and second downs to lock down the run. So to me that solves the problem of what do we do about end. I don't care what offense you're facing, if they have to figure out how to block Dareus, Williams, and Soliai it's going to create problems and create openings for the players around them. I don't think the Bills will sign Soliai, but I think he'd be a great addition to the defense, both in the 3-4 and the 4-3.
CBD Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 What about his play suggests to you that he can't play as a DT in a 4-3? I think people really get too hung up on the differences between 3-4 and 4-3. I just want some strong, nasty, quick defensive linemen that can stop the run and at least push the pocket back into the QBs face. A player like Soliai would look awesome next to Dareus and Williams no matter what the scheme. Now imagine those three with the addition of a prototypical pass rushing DE thrown into the mix. Another great thing about Soliai is the versatility he gives you with switching between 3-4 and 4-3. He gives you a true NT to run a 3-4 when you want to. He is who Torrell Troup was supposed to be. Nothing about his play suggests he can't play in a 43. However none of Dareus, Soliai and Williams have the ideal skillset to play 43 DE. Therefore we have these 3 players that you claim would "look awesome" next to one another with one of them on the sidelines.
Turbosrrgood Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 Nothing about his play suggests he can't play in a 43. However none of Dareus, Soliai and Williams have the ideal skillset to play 43 DE. Therefore we have these 3 players that you claim would "look awesome" next to one another with one of them on the sidelines. This ^
CBD Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 I also think Dareus or Williams can play 4-3 DE in spot duty, primarily on first and second downs to lock down the run. They're not edge defenders, which is what you'd be asking them to do in that instance.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) They're not edge defenders, which is what you'd be asking them to do in that instance. And again, the Giants DEs arent big, interior guys. But their NASCAR defense works extremely well because they are putting their best talent on the field. I realize they only use it in certain situations, but they do use it often. And big guys need regular rotation. I think an interior rotation of Williams, Dareus, Soliai, Heard would be great. If Dareus needs to kick out to 43DE occasionally, then so be it. He did it at Alabama. The Bills would finally have depth in the trenches. Edited January 25, 2012 by DrDareustein
CBD Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 And again, the Giants DEs arent big, interior guys. But their NASCAR defense works extremely well because they are putting their best talent on the field. I realize they only use it in certain situations, but they do use it often. And big guys need regular rotation. I think an interior rotation of Williams, Dareus, Soliai, Heard would be great. If Dareus needs to kick out to 43DE occasionally, then so be it. He did it at Alabama. The Bills would finally have depth in the trenches. I'm in agreement with you, their job is to get the best talent on the field and put them into the best situations that you possibly can to make them successful. Doesn't it make more sense to run a 34 when you have 3 huge players capable of playing those positions rather than shoehorning one of them into an edge rushing/outside contain position where they wouldn't be at their best? If you sign a guy like Soliai for big money you're not going to play a defensive front that doesn't allow your 3 best players to be at their best. That's what the Giants are doing.
NewEra Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 He's a good player and would help our team for sure, but I think we'd be better off using our money on a bonafide pass rusher or WR. Considering we play a lot of 4 man fronts, I'm not sure he fits it with Dareus and Williams already of board. Not sure if either of them would be very effective on the outside in a 4-3. Not sure Kyle would be effective as a 3-4 de. While adding good players is a priority, I'd rather use the rest of the cap on something other than a 3-4 DT.just doesn't make sense to me.
RealityCheck Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) All this 3-4 4-3 nonsense is getting old. Our D-line has been playing almost identical gap assignments for the past decade. Kyle has rarely played the true 0 tech. 2 gap. Whether you call them DTs or DEs it does not matter, KW and MD primarily played the 1 and 3 techniques in a single gap scheme. That being said, a 3 man rotation of KW, MD and Soliai would be devastating and allow us to say goodbye to Edwards and Johnson. If we are able to draft some DEs we might be on to something. The Giants constantly rotate DTs and DEs and those guys stay relatively fresh the whole game. Anyone that does not want a rotation like that at DT will be the first to complain that we have no depth when either Kyle or Marcel get injured. Who are the Giants LBrs again? Also, look at what happened to the Packers D after letting Jenkins walk. Good big men on D are just too hard to come by, and we only have 2. That just won't do. Edited January 25, 2012 by RealityCheck
H2o Posted January 25, 2012 Author Posted January 25, 2012 He's a good player and would help our team for sure, but I think we'd be better off using our money on a bonafide pass rusher or WR. Considering we play a lot of 4 man fronts, I'm not sure he fits it with Dareus and Williams already of board. Not sure if either of them would be very effective on the outside in a 4-3. Not sure Kyle would be effective as a 3-4 de. While adding good players is a priority, I'd rather use the rest of the cap on something other than a 3-4 DT.just doesn't make sense to me. If we got Soliai it would open up many things. There would have to be help everywhere just against our 3 front line players. Dareus, Williams, and Soliai would not be able to be blocked with just one man each. We could draft pass rushers that would immediately have the boost of facing more one on one match ups where they could be effective getting to the QB. Three guys on the front line as such would open up all kinds of possibilities for our defense as well as strengthen us against the run without question.
Captain Hindsight Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 Gailey talked highly bout Soliai after the miami game last year...
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