Hammered a Lot Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) is going to have a story about the use and side effects of the pain killer Toradol in the NFL. Tuesday 1-24-2012 http://www.drugs.com/toradol.html I'm wondering if Kent Hull used this drug before/after games. Edited January 23, 2012 by Hammered a Lot
section122 Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 My friends and I were talking about these drugs during the games yesterday. Gronk took a nasty hit/tackle and was obviously gimpy, however, we all new he would go back get shot up and be back out on the field. It got me to thinking how much of the early deaths and birth defects in their children we see with football players are contributed to this. Dangerous game they play not only short term but long term with these side effects. Concussions rightfully so are at the forefront of the nfl's concern, but the punishment (and treatment) these players put their bodies through should be as well.
STLBILLS15 Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 My friends and I were talking about these drugs during the games yesterday. Gronk took a nasty hit/tackle and was obviously gimpy, however, we all new he would go back get shot up and be back out on the field. It got me to thinking how much of the early deaths and birth defects in their children we see with football players are contributed to this. Dangerous game they play not only short term but long term with these side effects. Concussions rightfully so are at the forefront of the nfl's concern, but the punishment (and treatment) these players put their bodies through should be as well. Very well put. Although I believe there should be more guidelines on the extended use of these drugs given to the players from the team doctors. I know there is a ton of pressure put on the doctors from the owners, so the NFl as a league should step in and mandate perscription use. Example: I know you're not "supposed" to recieve more than one cortizone shot for one area (because of excessive damage to the tissue), but who knows how many these guys really get, and shortening their careers by doing so.
rpcolosi Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 as a doctor (ok pediatric dentist) who actually prescribes toradol, it's no more than an injection type of NSAID of which are meds like Ibuprofen and Aspirin. Toradol works in much the same manner, known as a 'non-selective COX inhibitor.' other types of COX inhibitors have been taken off the market like Vioxx but these are not related to Toradol as they are known as "selective COX II inhibitors." the big issue with Toradol is addiction long term, which could cause unwarranted side effects, but it's not an OTC medication, so I'm curious what angle Kramer is going to take with this.
Beerball Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 is going to have a story about the use and side effects of the pain killer Toradol in the NFL. Tuesday 1-24-2012 http://www.drugs.com/toradol.html I'm wondering if Kent Hull used this drug before/after games. Peter King talks about it in MMQB. Here is a link. I wondered the same thing, but I believe that his response would have been similar to Urlacher's if he were questioned about it. (see my sig)
Heitz Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 as a doctor (ok pediatric dentist) who actually prescribes toradol, it's no more than an injection type of NSAID of which are meds like Ibuprofen and Aspirin. Toradol works in much the same manner, known as a 'non-selective COX inhibitor.' other types of COX inhibitors have been taken off the market like Vioxx but these are not related to Toradol as they are known as "selective COX II inhibitors." the big issue with Toradol is addiction long term, which could cause unwarranted side effects, but it's not an OTC medication, so I'm curious what angle Kramer is going to take with this. I'm sorry, but the fact that you're an actual expert on the subject automatically disqualifies you from talking about said subject on Two Bills Drive. We take our history of half-quoted stories, conspiracy theories and nonsensical viewpoints very seriously around these parts!
GaryPinC Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) as a doctor (ok pediatric dentist) who actually prescribes toradol, it's no more than an injection type of NSAID of which are meds like Ibuprofen and Aspirin. Toradol works in much the same manner, known as a 'non-selective COX inhibitor.' other types of COX inhibitors have been taken off the market like Vioxx but these are not related to Toradol as they are known as "selective COX II inhibitors." the big issue with Toradol is addiction long term, which could cause unwarranted side effects, but it's not an OTC medication, so I'm curious what angle Kramer is going to take with this. Why do you think the big issue with Toradol is addiction? It's an NSAID. Has any stand-alone NSAID ever been shown to be addictive or have withdrawl symptoms? My understanding was Toradol is a short-term drug because of the cardiac, stroke, GI, and kidney risks. Here's a newer version (nasal) that provided some info about low addiction potential: http://www.sprix.com/Meet-SPRIX/Ketorolac-History.aspx As an NSAID, ketorolac does not bind to opiate receptors. A study to evaluate the sedative and addictive potential of ketorolac showed no withdrawal symptoms upon cessation of dosing with ketorolac 30 mg IM four times daily for 5 days. Ketorolac IM also has no significant adverse effects on psychomotor measurements, including reaction time, computerized driving skills, ataxia, and sedation. I work with a couple ER docs who see quite a few addicts come in "in pain" hoping to get an opiod for relief. Docs told me they give toradol to treat the pain not the addiction. Vioxx is related to toradol but extra selectivity for COX II heightens cardiac/stroke/high blood pressure side effects over GI/kidney. Back on topic, Kramer's article will probably focus on the fact that toradol was the widespread analgesia of choice for a lot of the NFL players until recently. NFL Docs were all too willing to give it but did they do long-term harm to player's kidneys, heart, GI? Edited January 23, 2012 by GaryPinC
Ray Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Much to do about much of nothing. Any drug can be dangerous if not used correctly. Water can be deadly! But it is an injectable NSAID...think motrin being injected not morphine or dilaudid or fentanyl etc.... Now, it should not be used regularly as it is more likely than motrin and naprosyn to cause ulcers/GI bleeds and very very rarely renal problems. Its effect on causing ulcers is short lived....so if you take it for a few days the possible side effect of an ulcer occurs for about a week or so NOT years. It is a very reasonable choice of a pain medication for someone who has an acute injury. It is not something you give daily to someone/player. I have not seen the story but it would not be wose to say inject someone daily with this for more than three days straight. It is NOT addicting. Motrin actually in pain studies has comparable effects in terms of pain releif about 60 minutes out from dose.
todd Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 I get Toridol for kidney stones when in the ER. It is amazing, however it doesn't kill *all* pain, and it works best when combined with morphine or dilauded. But it is still an amazing medication when taken alone. That's my own personal experience. So yes, it is probably bad for you, but what you see on the field would be totally different without it. Another thing to consider is that the only other medication I'm aware of are opiates, and since those are addictive you have to consider what is worse - toridol or vicodin. Players are going to use SOMETHING for their pain.
Mr. WEO Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 as a doctor (ok pediatric dentist) who actually prescribes toradol, it's no more than an injection type of NSAID of which are meds like Ibuprofen and Aspirin. Toradol works in much the same manner, known as a 'non-selective COX inhibitor.' other types of COX inhibitors have been taken off the market like Vioxx but these are not related to Toradol as they are known as "selective COX II inhibitors." the big issue with Toradol is addiction long term, which could cause unwarranted side effects, but it's not an OTC medication, so I'm curious what angle Kramer is going to take with this. As others have said, it's an injectable NSAID, there is no potential for physiologic addiction. It's safe but I don't give to elderly patients due to the effects on kidney fucntion.
ajzepp Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 I'm not an expert, but I've administered this medication since I took my first acute care job back in 2001. I, too, am interested to see where this goes. There are plenty of drugs out there that I would expect to have a light shone on them at some point, but this wasn't one of them. Interesting.
RunTheBall Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 I use Toradol every day on patients. Many have already hilighted the salient points. One thing that hasn't been mentioned which I think is the most interesting aspect of using it in football is its effects on microvascular bleeding. What that means is it slows down the body's ability to heal small injuries to blood vessels so patients who have surgery can "ooze" (they don't hemorrhage to death) All NSAIDS but especially Toradol inhibit platelets to some degree so they can increase this type of bleeding risk. Now you go shoot up a bunch of players who are at increased risk of bleeding and then ask them to go bonk heads for a few hours. I'd be very interested to look at the brains of these players who received Toradol regularly and see if they show signs of small bleeds (which can lead to much badness long term). It would be better to compare them to the brains of football players who didn't receive Toradol. We need the brains. RTB
Best Player Available Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 What ever happened to taking 14 vicadins before a game like Brett Favre did?
GaryPinC Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 I use Toradol every day on patients. Many have already hilighted the salient points. One thing that hasn't been mentioned which I think is the most interesting aspect of using it in football is its effects on microvascular bleeding. What that means is it slows down the body's ability to heal small injuries to blood vessels so patients who have surgery can "ooze" (they don't hemorrhage to death) All NSAIDS but especially Toradol inhibit platelets to some degree so they can increase this type of bleeding risk. Now you go shoot up a bunch of players who are at increased risk of bleeding and then ask them to go bonk heads for a few hours. I'd be very interested to look at the brains of these players who received Toradol regularly and see if they show signs of small bleeds (which can lead to much badness long term). It would be better to compare them to the brains of football players who didn't receive Toradol. We need the brains. RTB Great point, that will be interesting to see. My understanding is that during the season, toradol was a must before the game and at various times during the week until last year when the NFL started realizing the potential long term side effects and potential liability.
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