Franchise QB

[PDaDdy]

I swear the Bills fan base are the only people I have ever seen that make excuses for a player for the better part of a decade...Fitz has never had a really good season in his entire career on 3 different teams, including being blessed with a lot of weapons in most seasons he has been in the league.

 

How many more years are people going to make excuses for him? It was the same thing with RJ, Flutie, JP, Holcomb, Trent, and now Fitz. I swear, its never about the QB, they blame everyone and everything around them...yet you ignore the fact that the QB ELEVATES the play of those around them, except our QB's are not capable of doing that. Fitz didnt do much when he was throwing to TO and Lee...Torry and Bruce...TJ and Ocho...SJ and our scrubs...etc etc.

 

I think he has a lot of great qualities...being a QB you can build around unfortunately is not one of them. He is a stop gap to groom a young guy, unfortunately we dont have a young guy grooming behind him.

 

If the Bills are smart, they will strongly consider a young QB like Flynn. Que all the Rob Johnson responses garbage, but the truth is that its not even remotely close to the same situation. I have been saying for years on here how high GB is on Flynn, so much they cut their 2nd round QB (Brohm) in just his second year because Flynn was clearly the better QB. This kids potential is high and legit. And not because of his big game...he has shown a lot of great potential for a while now.

 

Did you see the first 3rd of the year when he was playing at a probowl level when everyone was healthy? How many more years are Bills fans going to ignore the lack of talent around a QB and how our statistically horrible defense impacted game play? Rogers and Brady looked terrible their last games with guys in their face despite having great and I mean GREAT WR/TE options to throw too.

 

Aaron Rogers is consider franchise and elite yet his back up comes in and throws 400 yards and 6 TDs? Do they have 2 ELITE hall of fame QBs or do they have a great team with great protection and great WR/TE threats. The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league. Fitz was playing AWESOME when the team was healthy. Open your eyes. Later in the year he was throwing the ball to a wild cat QB, a second year RB playing WR and guys that were driving trucks and bagging groceries to begin the year. You can't spin flax into gold. That's not Fitz job.

 

Do you think we should play the lottery every year? As stated a franchise QB comes along every 4 or so year and don't always appear to be so at first. Kurt Warner looked great when he had Issac Bruce, Tory Holt and Marshal Faulk to throw to. He looked like crap playing for the giants with no talent around him. He goes to Arizona with Boldin and Fitzgerald and all of a sudden he is a franchise QB again.

 

One last time for the slow, franchise QBs are as much MADE as they are BORN.

[Bronc24]

Fitzpatrick seriously looked like Eli Manning the first part of the season. Wish I knew what the heck happened to him after that.

 

I guess there's still a glimmer of hope that he can look that good across a whole season.

 

Teams realized he sucked when forced to throw intermediate and deep routes.

 

Did you see the first 3rd of the year when he was playing at a probowl level when everyone was healthy? How many more years are Bills fans going to ignore the lack of talent around a QB and how our statistically horrible defense impacted game play? Rogers and Brady looked terrible their last games with guys in their face despite having great and I mean GREAT WR/TE options to throw too.

 

Aaron Rogers is consider franchise and elite yet his back up comes in and throws 400 yards and 6 TDs? Do they have 2 ELITE hall of fame QBs or do they have a great team with great protection and great WR/TE threats. The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league. Fitz was playing AWESOME when the team was healthy. Open your eyes. Later in the year he was throwing the ball to a wild cat QB, a second year RB playing WR and guys that were driving trucks and bagging groceries to begin the year. You can't spin flax into gold. That's not Fitz job.

 

Do you think we should play the lottery every year? As stated a franchise QB comes along every 4 or so year and don't always appear to be so at first. Kurt Warner looked great when he had Issac Bruce, Tory Holt and Marshal Faulk to throw to. He looked like crap playing for the giants with no talent around him. He goes to Arizona with Boldin and Fitzgerald and all of a sudden he is a franchise QB again.

 

One last time for the slow, franchise QBs are as much MADE as they are BORN.

 

 

So....what has he done for me lately?

[Alphadawg7]

Did you see the first 3rd of the year when he was playing at a probowl level when everyone was healthy? How many more years are Bills fans going to ignore the lack of talent around a QB and how our statistically horrible defense impacted game play? Rogers and Brady looked terrible their last games with guys in their face despite having great and I mean GREAT WR/TE options to throw too.

 

Aaron Rogers is consider franchise and elite yet his back up comes in and throws 400 yards and 6 TDs? Do they have 2 ELITE hall of fame QBs or do they have a great team with great protection and great WR/TE threats. The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league. Fitz was playing AWESOME when the team was healthy. Open your eyes. Later in the year he was throwing the ball to a wild cat QB, a second year RB playing WR and guys that were driving trucks and bagging groceries to begin the year. You can't spin flax into gold. That's not Fitz job.

 

Do you think we should play the lottery every year? As stated a franchise QB comes along every 4 or so year and don't always appear to be so at first. Kurt Warner looked great when he had Issac Bruce, Tory Holt and Marshal Faulk to throw to. He looked like crap playing for the giants with no talent around him. He goes to Arizona with Boldin and Fitzgerald and all of a sudden he is a franchise QB again.

 

One last time for the slow, franchise QBs are as much MADE as they are BORN.

 

You mean the first 3rd of the year where Fitz was fortunate the DB's for Oakland dropped 2 sure handed INT's in the endzone that would have sealed the loss and the Pats committed an unrelated PI penalty overturning essentially the game ending INT Fitz threw in the end zone on a grossly under thrown ball that was 8 yards short of the WR? Yes, he was slinging the ball around in the first 3rd of the year, however, he got several lucky breaks to not lose games on mistakes he made. Thats part of the game, but once the defense stopped getting an unsustainable amount of turnovers in these games and oppsoing DC's got film on how to stop this O, it was a WHOLE other ball game.

 

I love how you focus on 1/3 of the season yet choose to ignore 2/3's of his season and the rest of his career.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Any chance we'll have a Franchise QB in the next 3-5 years (and please don't say that Fitz is it). Growing very tired of mediocrity. Tired of seeing top tier QBs guide their respective teams to the playoffs year in and year out while the Bills sit at home. Say what you want about the Bills other team needs, but they will never be better than average until they have a true Franchise QB.

Tannehill.

 

C'mon man, he didn't fumble the ball. Given the opportunity, the niners very well might have won in OT.

They really should have won as they played better yesterday but KW (not that KW) gave the game away.

[White Linen]

Fitz is better than half the QB's in the league. He is better than Tebow and Flaco, they made the playoffs.

 

No way he's better than Flacco.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Triple Threat

[todd]

What did he and the Niners win?

 

More than the Bills have in 11 years.

[Dorkington]

Fitz is an average QB with a great head on his shoulders. He can work in the right system with the right guys around him.

 

However, he is not a guy who will be good on a bad team, and carry them.

 

So we either *magically* find one of those guys, or we make incremental improvements around him. Pick your poison.

[thewildrabbit]

The weak link that put the game-winning TD throw right into the hands of his double-covered receiver, who promptly dropped it.

 

Sorry, but after yesterday, I can't call Flacco the weak link. He put his team in position to win (or at the very least tie).

 

yea well I guess you missed the 4th QTR, with about 11 min in the game and the Ravens driving to the 50 yard line by running the ball.

 

The only pass play called was intercepted right over the middle and no Raven player was even near where Flacco threw the ball.

[PDaDdy]

Teams realized he sucked when forced to throw intermediate and deep routes.

 

 

 

 

So....what has he done for me lately?

 

More to the point. What have his receivers, and I use the term VERY loosely, done for him lately?

[San-O]

Any chance we'll have a Franchise QB in the next 3-5 years (and please don't say that Fitz is it). Growing very tired of mediocrity. Tired of seeing top tier QBs guide their respective teams to the playoffs year in and year out while the Bills sit at home. Say what you want about the Bills other team needs, but they will never be better than average until they have a true Franchise QB.

 

Honestly, I think Ralph has pretty much given up on "Winning" with a big "W", and is more concerned with generating just

enough interest to keep people buying tix and showing up.

 

He's riding this thing out all the way, and basically letting the cards fall where they may.

 

If they have franchise QB drop to them then great. I do npt expect any great moves re: QB however.

[PDaDdy]

You mean the first 3rd of the year where Fitz was fortunate the DB's for Oakland dropped 2 sure handed INT's in the endzone that would have sealed the loss and the Pats committed an unrelated PI penalty overturning essentially the game ending INT Fitz threw in the end zone on a grossly under thrown ball that was 8 yards short of the WR? Yes, he was slinging the ball around in the first 3rd of the year, however, he got several lucky breaks to not lose games on mistakes he made. Thats part of the game, but once the defense stopped getting an unsustainable amount of turnovers in these games and oppsoing DC's got film on how to stop this O, it was a WHOLE other ball game.

 

I love how you focus on 1/3 of the season yet choose to ignore 2/3's of his season and the rest of his career.

 

 

Wait. So NOW we are talking about team wins and losses. I thought we were focusing on the QB position but just not in a vacuum.

 

I'm talking about the guy that when we had our WRs healthy as crappy as they were was leading the league in TDs and QB rating....YA...that guy. Are you brain damaged or did you just not see the team falling apart around him due to injuries? How do you develop timing and chemistry with the revolving door of crap we had at WR. What did teams figure out? Our RBs were healthy longer and CJ filled in superbly for FJ. Defenses apparently didn't figure that out.

 

I get it you hate Fitz. You want to draft a QB every year hoping and praying for a messiah that despite the crap we had for targets and an o-line that demanded the second fastest ball out delivery in the league still succeeds. There isn't a QB in the league with the exception for a new found even greater respect for Peyton Manning that could be successful in that situation. Keep hating though. I sure our fan "support" will do wonders for the on field production. We get a guy that is more than good enough when we have talent around him and you run him down like he knocked up and split on your sister.

 

No way he's better than Flacco.

 

I think he is easily as good and reads coverage better. SJ is the only WR we have that would start for the Ravens and they have an awesome top 5 defense which affects their play calling while we have a bottom 5 defense that caused us to go into panic mode by the 2nd quarter.

 

Look at the stats yourself on nfl.com. Their numbers are almost identical for the year despite our revolving door of crap at WR, LT and losing our best offensive lineman and QB of the line Eric Wood.

Edited January 23, 2012 by PDaDdy

[sllib olaffub]

You act like you can just decide to get a franchise QB, like teams that don't have one decided not to have one.

 

PTR

 

A team that knows it doesn't have a very good QB can 1. Go out and find some good ones either in the draft or F.A. But that takes keen evaluation, and 2. Go out and get the QB the team has decided is very good, regardless of what it takes. That is what the Bills haven't had - the ability to confidently evaluate talent, and the guts to go get the good ones.

 

Now, I say this before Buddy Nix. I believe he has fairly accurately judged the talent of college QB's and found none worth taking high. But, just because he hasn't seen any excellent QB's AVAILABLE to take early, doesn't mean that he can just sit by for 3 seasons without addressing the position. He has to find one, if that means trading up to get into position, or getting a F.A.; whatever, he just cannot sit by another year and go without getting a young QB that the Bills can turn to with HOPE when Fitz inevitably falters.

[Orton's Arm]

I certainly wasn't expecting everyone to agree with me on that statement, but those vague and relatively equal stats were the best argument you could come up with?

 

Flacco is on a team absolutely loaded with talent. Good Defense, good oline, good WR's, good RB's (bad kicker). Flacco has never been anything more than mediocre, even with all of that talent. Even his own players have called him out. He holds onto the ball forever, and half of the time he tries to run ends up with him being sacked or losing yards. He long throws aren't much more accurate than Fitz's. He reminds me of the Bills QB's of the last decade, athletic, have the tools, but don't have the brains. Too many sacks, not enough good decisions.

 

Fitz may not be anything special either, but he has done more with far less in his 1 full season as a starter. Obviously opinions on this could easily go either way.

 

As far as Alex smith goes, he was this years Trent Dilfer. A below average QB, just asked to manage the game while the defense and RB's do the rest...

 

IMO, you shouldn't base opinions on players by looking at their stats, you should instead form opinions based on watching them play. Especially obscure stats like YPA. JP Losman put up over 7.1 YPA in 2006, an awful season.

 

Bottom line, if Flacco and Fitz switched teams, I think the Ravens would have more success, and the Bills less.

 

Also any stat can be used to try and make a point, regardless whether it matches up with play on the field or not. You could look at Fitz' 62% completion rate and 24 TD's this year, on a team with virtually no WR's, compared to Flaccos 57% and 20 TD's...

I used to feel that quarterback rating was the single best statistical measure of a QB's performance. But then I had a rude awakening: John Elway had a career QB rating of 79.9, and Kelly Holcomb a career QB rating of 79.2. I think that Holcomb is underrated, but this is ridiculous! After thinking a while, I realized the reason QB rating wasn't doing a very good job of illuminating the difference between those two QBs was because QB rating takes completion percentage into account. Any statistical measure which includes completion percentage is going to unfairly reward guys who focus on the short passing game--yes Holcomb that's you--while unfairly penalizing QBs who focus on intermediate and deep passes. A QB who goes 1/2 for 10 yards has achieved exactly as much as a QB who goes 2/2 for ten yards.

 

I then began thinking about measurements which would allow me to fairly compare a short passing game QB like Holcomb with a gunslinger like Elway. The main tool for evaluating RBs is yards per rush attempt. Why not use yards per pass attempt to evaluate QBs? Holcomb averaged 6.6 yards per attempt over the course of his career; as compared to 7.1 yards per attempt for Elway. Yards per attempt shines a light on the difference between those two QBs in a way that QB rating does not.

 

The above thought process was later validated by an excellent article in the New York Times. The author of the article had performed a regression analysis which demonstrated that a small number of variables can be used to explain 80% of the observed differences in teams' win/loss records. Those variable are yards per pass attempt, interception percentage, and yards per rushing attempt. (As well as the defensive equivalents.) Yards per pass attempt is three times more important than either interception percentage or yards per rushing attempt (for both offense and defense).

 

I agree that a QB can sometimes achieve a high yards per attempt stat despite having serious flaws in his game. You are correct to point to Losman's 2006 season as a good example of that. Sooner or later, defenses will figure out how to exploit those flaws. Once that happens, the QB's yards per attempt stat will typically come back to earth.

 

Trent Dilfer averaged 6.5 yards per attempt over the course of his career, and 6.6 yards per attempt during his year with the Ravens. Alex Smith averaged 7.1 yards per attempt this past season with the 49ers. Smith's 2011 season was not Dilfer-like.

 

Trent Edwards has averaged 6.5 yards per attempt over the course of his career. Almost all of that average was compiled in Buffalo. With the Bills, Edwards typically had a one trick pony as his #1 WR, no TE, no offensive coordinator, and a suspect OL. In other words, his supporting cast was at least as bad as the one Fitz has had these past two years; and possibly worse. Fitz averaged 6.8 yards per attempt in 2010 and 6.7 yards per attempt in 2011. That's an improvement over Edwards, but not much of one. The eyeball test says the same thing: Fitz's play looks better than Edwards' play. But Fitz also looks like a guy playing a lot closer to Edwards' level than to Aaron Rodgers' level. At least, that's what my eyeballs tell me, and the stats bear that out.

[Alphadawg7]

Wait. So NOW we are talking about team wins and losses. I thought we were focusing on the QB position but just not in a vacuum.

 

I'm talking about the guy that when we had our WRs healthy as crappy as they were was leading the league in TDs and QB rating....YA...that guy. Are you brain damaged or did you just not see the team falling apart around him due to injuries? How do you develop timing and chemistry with the revolving door of crap we had at WR. What did teams figure out? Our RBs were healthy longer and CJ filled in superbly for FJ. Defenses apparently didn't figure that out.

 

I get it you hate Fitz. You want to draft a QB every year hoping and praying for a messiah that despite the crap we had for targets and an o-line that demanded the second fastest ball out delivery in the league still succeeds. There isn't a QB in the league with the exception for a new found even greater respect for Peyton Manning that could be successful in that situation. Keep hating though. I sure our fan "support" will do wonders for the on field production. We get a guy that is more than good enough when we have talent around him and you run him down like he knocked up and split on your sister.

 

 

Another king of excuses...Lets see, Fitz started with Torry and Bruce...then had Ocho and TJ (when they were studs)...then had Lee and TO...then had Lee and SJ...then had SJ and a mix of guys. Hmmm, seems just about every year of his career he has been surrounded with weapons, yet he never seems to be able to pull it together. You hand pick some small sample size, where his stats look better than his in game performance I might add, and ignore his entire career including the rest of this season and make excuses for him. Yes he was slinging the rock around in those early weeks, but we also caught a lot of people by surprise and once they figured out how to game plan for him it became easy to slow us down.

 

I have never seen a QB put the ball in the defenses hands as much as him, but somehow they drop a lot of easy ones or we get lucky and get some penalty to over turn them. We should have lost the Oakland game and the NE game based on his mistakes, but got bailed out by drops and penalties by opposing defenses. He got to go from zero to hero in those early weeks because of it, but the truth is, we caught a lot of lucky breaks. What happened when those lucky breaks stopped happening? We continued to lose games, almost every one for the rest of the season.

 

Make all the excuses you want, but great QB's find a way to win. This team and offense had enough talent on it to win more than 1 game in our last 9 games of the season, yet Fitz faltered big time. I dont hate Fitz at all, but I do hate that we are all in with him and have no young QB behind him to groom to lead this team. I think he is a great stop gap and would be a great mentor with his mind for the game, but he just isnt talented enough to be a consistent starting QB to build around on a rebuilding team. You better have a stacked team on both sides of the ball around him and we are no where close to that.

[Thirty Year Fan]

look at Alex Smith, everyone labeled him as a bust. He is still a mediocre QB and a system product. It just goes to show you don't need a franchise QB to win

 

The Trent Dilfer super bowl win as a system QB that comes around about every 20 years. To be in it year in and year out you do need a franchise QB .

[stinky finger]

The weak link that put the game-winning TD throw right into the hands of his double-covered receiver, who promptly dropped it.

 

Sorry, but after yesterday, I can't call Flacco the weak link. He put his team in position to win (or at the very least tie).

Stop it. He played against a shiit-ass Pat D. He proved nothing.