ajzepp Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 look at Alex Smith, everyone labeled him as a bust. He is still a mediocre QB and a system product. It just goes to show you don't need a franchise QB to win yeah but Alex Smith was the number one overall draft pick when he came out. He has the pedigree of a franchise QB and was drafted to fulfill that role. I also don't really think you can label him a system QB when he's had five or six different systems implemented over his first seven years in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Fitzpatrick seriously looked like Eli Manning the first part of the season. Wish I knew what the heck happened to him after that. I guess there's still a glimmer of hope that he can look that good across a whole season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Yeah, Fitz is better than Flacco, no doubt. Flacco is an average at best QB on a very good team, he is the weak link. I strongly disagree with the bolded text. Fitzpatrick's averaged 6.8 yards per attempt during his best season. Joe Flacco has averaged 7.1 yards per attempt over the course of his career. Flacco may not be a franchise QB, but he's a lot closer to being one than is Fitzpatrick. As for those who say you don't need a franchise QB: teams with franchise QBs tend to win a Super Bowl once every nine years. Teams without win a Super Bowl once every 250 years. If your goal is merely to make the playoffs, you can get away without having a franchise QB. But if you actually want to win the Super Bowl--as opposed to getting your heart broken in the postseason--you almost have to have a franchise QB. Thus far, Alex Smith has averaged a disappointing 6.4 yards per attempt over the course of his career. But this past season he averaged a very solid 7.1 yards per attempt. Smith's dramatic improvement over the last two seasons is a major reason why the 49ers accomplished as much as they did. Edited January 23, 2012 by Edwards' Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalos#1Fan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 What did he and the Niners win? Oh yeah, a team can't be good if they don't win the superbowl. Great point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsoldier54 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 What did he and the Niners win? C'mon man, he didn't fumble the ball. Given the opportunity, the niners very well might have won in OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I doubt the Bills will get a franchise QB anytime soon....this team still hasn't hit rock bottom to the point we can draft a franchise QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I strongly disagree with the bolded text. Fitzpatrick's averaged 6.8 yards per attempt during his best season. Joe Flacco has averaged 7.1 yards per attempt over the course of his career. Flacco may not be a franchise QB, but he's a lot closer to being one than is Fitzpatrick. As for those who say you don't need a franchise QB: teams with franchise QBs tend to win a Super Bowl once every nine years. Teams without win a Super Bowl once every 250 years. If your goal is merely to make the playoffs, you can get away without having a franchise QB. But if you actually want to win the Super Bowl--as opposed to getting your heart broken in the postseason--you almost have to have a franchise QB. Thus far, Alex Smith has averaged a disappointing 6.4 yards per attempt over the course of his career. But this past season he averaged a very solid 7.1 yards per attempt. Smith's dramatic improvement over the last two seasons is a major reason why the 49ers accomplished as much as they did. IMO, its a valid point that you need a franchise QB but I think the argument is moot. Identification of the need for a good QB is not the problem nor a solution. It's getting one that's the problem because there are about 1 in 400,000,000 NFL caliber QB prospects out of the entire population of the planet Earth. The Bills have spent the better part of 15 years looking for that guy and the failure to do so has been the result of execution rather than a conscious decision that one is not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KollegeStudnet Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Fitzpatrick seriously looked like Eli Manning the first part of the season. Wish I knew what the heck happened to him after that. I guess there's still a glimmer of hope that he can look that good across a whole season. Plain and simple, we all saw Fitzpatrick peak...meaning the other 31 teams have figured out his weaknesses and know he can't throw over 30 yards. So, teams jam the WR at the line...Fitz panics...incomplete pass or interception Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I strongly disagree with the bolded text. Fitzpatrick's averaged 6.8 yards per attempt during his best season. Joe Flacco has averaged 7.1 yards per attempt over the course of his career. Flacco may not be a franchise QB, but he's a lot closer to being one than is Fitzpatrick. As for those who say you don't need a franchise QB: teams with franchise QBs tend to win a Super Bowl once every nine years. Teams without win a Super Bowl once every 250 years. If your goal is merely to make the playoffs, you can get away without having a franchise QB. But if you actually want to win the Super Bowl--as opposed to getting your heart broken in the postseason--you almost have to have a franchise QB. Thus far, Alex Smith has averaged a disappointing 6.4 yards per attempt over the course of his career. But this past season he averaged a very solid 7.1 yards per attempt. Smith's dramatic improvement over the last two seasons is a major reason why the 49ers accomplished as much as they did. I certainly wasn't expecting everyone to agree with me on that statement, but those vague and relatively equal stats were the best argument you could come up with? Flacco is on a team absolutely loaded with talent. Good Defense, good oline, good WR's, good RB's (bad kicker). Flacco has never been anything more than mediocre, even with all of that talent. Even his own players have called him out. He holds onto the ball forever, and half of the time he tries to run ends up with him being sacked or losing yards. He long throws aren't much more accurate than Fitz's. He reminds me of the Bills QB's of the last decade, athletic, have the tools, but don't have the brains. Too many sacks, not enough good decisions. Fitz may not be anything special either, but he has done more with far less in his 1 full season as a starter. Obviously opinions on this could easily go either way. As far as Alex smith goes, he was this years Trent Dilfer. A below average QB, just asked to manage the game while the defense and RB's do the rest... IMO, you shouldn't base opinions on players by looking at their stats, you should instead form opinions based on watching them play. Especially obscure stats like YPA. JP Losman put up over 7.1 YPA in 2006, an awful season. Bottom line, if Flacco and Fitz switched teams, I think the Ravens would have more success, and the Bills less. Also any stat can be used to try and make a point, regardless whether it matches up with play on the field or not. You could look at Fitz' 62% completion rate and 24 TD's this year, on a team with virtually no WR's, compared to Flaccos 57% and 20 TD's... Edited January 23, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garranimal Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Fitz is better than half the QB's in the league. He is better than Tebow and Flaco, they made the playoffs. Not sure i can agree (or disagree for that matter) with this. How can you say Fitz is better or worse than anyone. Actually you can say that Fitz is better and worse than anyone/everyone. I have seen him play lights out and i have seen him just drag a team down to defeat. the jury is out and may always be on Fitz because he has never been consistently good, average or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not sure i can agree (or disagree for that matter) with this. How can you say Fitz is better or worse than anyone. Actually you can say that Fitz is better and worse than anyone/everyone. I have seen him play lights out and i have seen him just drag a team down to defeat. the jury is out and may always be on Fitz because he has never been consistently good, average or bad. You make a good point. Give me a full season of Fitz with a consistent roster, then we should have a good idea of the "real" Fitz. Personally I think it's too much of a coincidence that Fitz's play went down, at the same time the Bills suffered an assortment of major injuries. I don't know he will every be the guy you give a "franchise" label to, but I think he can get you to the playoffs with a good team around him. And yes, for now I would "settle" for just making the playoffs after over a decade of not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Plain and simple, we all saw Fitzpatrick peak...meaning the other 31 teams have figured out his weaknesses and know he can't throw over 30 yards. So, teams jam the WR at the line...Fitz panics...incomplete pass or interception I don't know if it was that simple. It seemed like once Wood was injured, Fitzpatrick lost confidence in his protection and he began to be a "one read and throw it" guy. Other teams focused on taking away Johnson and Nelson which left the passing game in shambles. When they were going great in the beginning, Fitzpatrick seemed to have been able to stand in the pocket and look at his second and third options. He will never be a great "accuracy" guy, but if they can figure out how to keep Wood healthy and get a good, fast, "big target" tall receiver opposite Johnson, then Fitzpatrick could become a consistently very good QB for a whole season. Edited January 23, 2012 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLFan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Ahh yes, the weekly "franchise QB" discussion... It's one of my favorites, along with the "trade down in the draft", "Ralph is cheap", and the endless comparisons of how well ex-Bills players are doing for other teams, even though nobody wanted them when they were here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalos#1Fan Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It's one of my favorites, along with the "trade down in the draft", "Ralph is cheap", and the endless comparisons of how well ex-Bills players are doing for other teams, even though nobody wanted them when they were here. Dont forget the "we should have drafted _____ over *any bills player drafted in the last 10 years*" threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Any chance we'll have a Franchise QB in the next 3-5 years (and please don't say that Fitz is it). Growing very tired of mediocrity. Tired of seeing top tier QBs guide their respective teams to the playoffs year in and year out while the Bills sit at home. Say what you want about the Bills other team needs, but they will never be better than average until they have a true Franchise QB. How good did Brady look Sunday with defenders in his face and his TE's FINALLY getting bumped at the line of scrimmage some? Elite QBs are something of a myth. Franchise QBs are usually judged in a vacuum by their performance not taking into consideration their offensive line, scheme, coaching and WRs/TEs. Franchise QBs are as much made as they are born. By the way I can't freaking stand the franchise QB discussion. People throw that term around all the time but can't define what it means. To some there are only 4 or 5 franchise QBs in the ENTIRE LEAGUE. Considering there are QBs in the league from the last 15 years of the draft means a SINGLE franchise QB comes along every 4 years or so. Some were not even first round picks. Half didn't even show they were franchise material until after several years of starting. You are almost litteraly talking about making your team building strategy hitting the lottery. If we draft a QB in the first round for the next 10 years we might have a chance that one of them turns out ok. Maybe you were. Maybe you weren't one these guys that talks up QB every stinking year and whined, begged and pleaded for the Claussens, Gabberts, McCoys, Leinharts, Quinns and Bradfords of the world. Where are they now? Some of the guys that begged and pleaded for us to draft one of those QBs threatened leaving the team if we drafted Cam Newton who actually looks like he is going to be a franchise QB. So nobody really has any freaking clue. A much much more intelligent way of building a winning team is to focus on the TEAM as a whole. Get a good QB and put things and people around him to make him successful. Get a defense that can keep you in every game. Even Aaron Rogers who is by any definition a franchise QB was outplayed in the game he sat out by a guy riding pine that threw 6 TDs. You can't do that without a great team around you. Again, Elite QBs are as much made as they are born. Edited January 23, 2012 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 How good did Brady look Sunday with defenders in his face and his TE's FINALLY getting bumped at the line of scrimmage some? Elite QBs are something of a myth. Franchise QBs are usually judged in a vacuum by their performance not taking into consideration their offensive line, scheme, coaching and WRs/TEs. Franchise QBs are as much made as they are born. By the way I can't freaking stand the franchise QB discussion. People throw that term around all the time but can't define what it means. To some there are only 4 or 5 franchise QBs in the ENTIRE LEAGUE. Considering there are QBs in the league from the last 15 years of the draft means a SINGLE franchise QB comes along 4 years or so. The problem is that only a couple of them were first round picks. Half didn't even show they were franchise material until after several years of starting. You are almost litteraly talking about making your team building strategy hitting the lottery. If we draft a QB in the first round for the next 10 years we might have a chance that one of them turns out ok. Maybe you were but maybe you weren't one these guys that talks up QB every stinking year and whined and pleaded for the Claussens, Gabberts, McCoys, Leinharts, Quinns and Bradfords of the world. Where are they now? A much much more intelligent way of building a winning team is to focus on the TEAM as a whole. Get a good QB and put things and people around him to make him successful. Get a defense that can keep you in every game. Even Aaron Rogers who is by any definition a franchise QB was outplayed in the game he sat out by a guy riding pine that threw 6 TDs. You can't do that without a great team around you. Can we please just pin this response? Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Fitzpatrick seriously looked like Eli Manning the first part of the season. Wish I knew what the heck happened to him after that. I guess there's still a glimmer of hope that he can look that good across a whole season. Did anyone actually watch the games and look at our starting roster from week to week? We were starting a wild cat QB and a 2nd year RB at WR at one point in the year. We had guys that were driving trunks and bagging groceries to start the year playing for us. That is a complete and total joke. We had Darues and Byrd on defense and nobody else. We played in catch up mode from the opening snap after about week 5. Edited January 23, 2012 by PDaDdy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Any chance we'll have a Franchise QB in the next 3-5 years (and please don't say that Fitz is it). Growing very tired of mediocrity. Tired of seeing top tier QBs guide their respective teams to the playoffs year in and year out while the Bills sit at home. Say what you want about the Bills other team needs, but they will never be better than average until they have a true Franchise QB. Nix did just say publicly that he is not opposed to taking a QB in this years draft, even early, if the right one is there. So, I think the realize Fitz is not the guy to build around, however, with so many holes on this team to fill they are not going to reach for one. And unfortunately with several top QB prospects returning to school this year, I dont think a QB they are really high on will be available anywhere we pick that is a better prospect than another player at another major hole. So I dont think we get that guy this year. We really missed an opportunity to get tremendous value at QB in the 3rd when we elected to not consider Mallet. I think that was a prime opportunity to take a chance on a guy with a top 10 talent level with later in the draft with a 3rd round pick. Fitz would have been a great guy to sit behind and learn from too on how to be a professional. We can only pray RG3 slips to us, but I HIGHLY doubt he falls that far, especially with the Redskins ahead of us and after the season Newton had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Did anyone actually watch the games and look at our starting roster from week to week? We were starting a wild cat QB and a 2nd year RB at WR at one point in the year. We had guys that were driving trunks and bagging groceries to start the year playing for us. That is a complete and total joke. We had Darues and Byrd on defense and nobody else. We played in catch up mode from the opening snap after about week 5. I swear the Bills fan base are the only people I have ever seen that make excuses for a player for the better part of a decade...Fitz has never had a really good season in his entire career on 3 different teams, including being blessed with a lot of weapons in most seasons he has been in the league. How many more years are people going to make excuses for him? It was the same thing with RJ, Flutie, JP, Holcomb, Trent, and now Fitz. I swear, its never about the QB, they blame everyone and everything around them...yet you ignore the fact that the QB ELEVATES the play of those around them, except our QB's are not capable of doing that. Fitz didnt do much when he was throwing to TO and Lee...Torry and Bruce...TJ and Ocho...SJ and our scrubs...etc etc. I think he has a lot of great qualities...being a QB you can build around unfortunately is not one of them. He is a stop gap to groom a young guy, unfortunately we dont have a young guy grooming behind him. If the Bills are smart, they will strongly consider a young QB like Flynn. Que all the Rob Johnson responses garbage, but the truth is that its not even remotely close to the same situation. I have been saying for years on here how high GB is on Flynn, so much they cut their 2nd round QB (Brohm) in just his second year because Flynn was clearly the better QB. This kids potential is high and legit. And not because of his big game...he has shown a lot of great potential for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) I strongly disagree with the bolded text. Fitzpatrick's averaged 6.8 yards per attempt during his best season. Joe Flacco has averaged 7.1 yards per attempt over the course of his career. Flacco may not be a franchise QB, but he's a lot closer to being one than is Fitzpatrick. You realize that is roughly 10.8 inches, right? The width of my hand with fingers spread is the difference between middle of the road and something apparently close to a franchise QB. Interesting enough... Edited January 23, 2012 by Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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